Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

An investigation has been launched into the death of a Ukrainian-born oligarch in Surrey earlier this week.

Officers were called to a property in Portnall Drive, Wentworth, at about midday on 28 February.

Mikhail Watford, aged in his 60s, was pronounced dead at the scene.

An investigation into the death is under way but Surrey Police said there were not believed to be any suspicious circumstances "at this time".

His next of kin have been told and are being supported by specially-trained officers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-60608132
 
I don't think this is controversial. Putin is sending in boys to fight and die for him. Kids who should be at school or university enjoying their lives.

And yes, Ukraine is using propaganda. Because I support them I don't mind it so much. Especially if it demoralises Russian troops into giving up and shortening the conflict. It is important to treat it cautiously like you said though.



Macron's standing has gone up in the polls since the war started. And the first round of the French Presidential elections is in five or so weeks. There could be a very cynical reason behind these moves.
I'd like to give Macron the benefit of the doubt. When a major crisis happens, the president of that moment can't just do nothing and sit back.
 
Macron's standing has gone up in the polls since the war started. And the first round of the French Presidential elections is in five or so weeks. There could be a very cynical reason behind these moves.
It's only because he's facing a bunch of nobodies or politically inept candidates. If he was facing a popular former high-ranked cabinet member from either the Sarkozy or the Hollande administrations, Macron would be in serious trouble right now.
 

Given the sizable task of maintaing control of such a large place and so many people they are either going to have to win the hearts and minds or rule through fear and I think there really is only option left for them sadly

These humanitarian routes are as much about letting anti russians leave the east so that more of the remaining population are open to living under russian occupation
 
Macron's standing has gone up in the polls since the war started. And the first round of the French Presidential elections is in five or so weeks. There could be a very cynical reason behind these moves.

He has consistently been 7-8 points of percentage above the second candidate even before the war. He has to be the least worried about elections out of all current world leaders, especially since the Le Pen keeps losing lieutenants who are jumping to the Zemmour shop who is somehow nonetheless sinking.
 
Before I say this, and inevitably get flamed - I want to first make it clear that I think Putin is a cnut, his pretext for war is bullshit and I hope he fails in every possible way. feck him and feck the invasion. I'm on Ukraine's side.

But I don't like narratives and how some people are unable to be objective. I saw a post on reddit about how somebody feels sorry for some of the Russian kids on the front lines and won't celebrate their deaths, some of them are just young lads in their teens who have been told by everybody around them that they're doing the right thing. The replies were predictable: "You're a traitor" "feck the invaders I hope they all die" "You're a nazi sympathiser". Sorry but feeling sorry for these kids doesn't mean I don't feel sorry for the people in Ukraine being killed and displaced.

Also, while practically everything that comes out of Russian news agencies is highly slanted propaganda, not everything that comes out of 'our side' is going to be completely truthful either. People post old images and videos of war on social media, showing awful destruction, and implying it's from 2022. If you dare point out that it's fake/old, you'll be flamed for being a Putin bot. This isn't right either. Pointing out fakes does not take away from the fact that Ukrainians really are suffering, but we don't need to make shit up - if anything being deceitful about these matters is insulting to the Ukrainians who are actually suffering.

The Ukrainian Ambassador that read out the text of the Russian soldier to his mother really sunk me. These are young men sent to die for no cause and they didn't even know it. They have to die because it's either them or the ones they are sent to kill . This is all the fault of one man .


I myself have conflicting views on let's say bombing the convoy because in one instance these convoys are being sent to kill people defending their home. In the other instance these are largely made up of 20 year olds that never wanted to be in the army in the first place , in the middle of nowhere probably not even knowing they are being sent to destroy a city. It's complicated and it sucks.
 
If you mean me, then that's not what I said at all.

Don't twist words to fit your agenda.
That is LITERALLY what you said.

Surely if the war spreads to UK/US, it would be fair, from a security perspective, to put all Russian nationals within that country into a camp. Do you really want a load of nationals from a country you're at war with wandering around freely?
 
But why would Russia be pissed off about countries wanting to join a defensive alliance if they are a peaceful nation and have no plans to invade those countries...

...oh wait.
What really gets lost in all this 'buffer state' cynicism, is these were newly independent, democratic countries asking to join a defensive alliance of other democratic countries. We should want to encourage and protect fellow democratic states where we can, we should want to see peaceful democratic systems of government spread and take root, it's in our interests to do so, and it shows we actually believe in our system. I get that sometimes you might want to be pragmatic, and the West was in the case of Ukraine, but ultimately the reason Putin invaded was because he refused to accept Ukraine's right to determine its own future as a Western facing nation, and the reason they are fighting so valiantly, is because it's a cause they still think is worth it.
 
Given the sizable task of maintaing control of such a large place and so many people they are either going to have to win the hearts and minds or rule through fear and I think there really is only option left for them sadly

These humanitarian routes are as much about letting anti russians leave the east so that more of the remaining population are open to living under russian occupation
Astute assessment, I would agree with that.
 
There's no such thing as normalization with Putin. He is an authoritarian dictator with nukes who has to go on the attack to prevent democracy reaching Russia, resulting in the toppling of his regime and his own execution. He must therefore always go on the attack of neighboring states to destabilize or invade them to prevent Russia going democratic. The only way to reach a normal equilibrium is for Putin to be removed through the pressure of sanctions,

The thing with many of the sanctions is that they are being directed at the Oligarchs.
But most people believe that Putin is in some sort of bunker for protection.
That being the case, is he really likely to be listening to any of those people.
If sanctions against Oligarchs was going to have any effect, it should have been done much earlier.
Sanctions directly against Russia and Putin can only have an effect in the medium to long term.
But the people being murdered and bombed by Russia need something to be done now in the short term.
 
3. Ukraine is refusing to open humanitarian corridors offered by Russia.
There was a link to a Ukraine-language website about this, which itself linked to a Ukrainian ministry statement about fighting and calling "green corridors" a Russian plot, so it seemed credible.
But then, today, apparently both sides have negotiated exactly this. So not exactly a talking point that will last long.

I remember from Syria that “humanitarian corridors” got a really bad reputation among the anti-Assad opposition, who
claimed the regime and Russians basically used them to advance and snuff out resistance. Could be the Ukrainians are somewhat wary.
 
Are you seriously saying we can dictate that he be removed?
Even if internally the consensus there is they want Putin removed, do you think Russia will accept our dictates?

Of course not. Pissing in the wind will have more of an effect.
 
If you mean me, then that's not what I said at all.

Don't twist words to fit your agenda.

Hmmmm…let’s see what you’ve previously posted…

Surely if the war spreads to UK/US, it would be fair, from a security perspective, to put all Russian nationals within that country into a camp. Do you really want a load of nationals from a country you're at war with wandering around freely?
Now you're being stupid.

Why should a country not round up people from an enemy country?
Why?

You want enemies running around free to do what they want, or are ordered, to do?

I'm not talking concentration camps here, just internment. Happened in UK during WWII, why not if there's another war?
 
What really gets lost in all this 'buffer state' cynicism, is these were newly independent, democratic countries asking to join a defensive alliance of other democratic countries. We should want to encourage and protect fellow democratic states where we can, we should want to see peaceful democratic systems of government spread and take root, it's in our interests to do so, and it shows we actually believe in our system. I get that sometimes you might want to be pragmatic, and the West was in the case of Ukraine, but ultimately the reason Putin invaded was because he refused to accept Ukraine's right to determine its own future as a Western facing nation, and the reason they are fighting so valiantly, is because it's a cause they still think is worth it.

I agree mate, well said.
 
I don't think NATO would have to do much in the way of 'enticing' countries to join if this is the fecking alternative.
 
The US and the West should never have enticed Ukraine about joining NATO.
It was directly threatening to Russia.

Non military benefits should not have been conditional on Ukraine joining NATO.
No one can justify Putin invading Ukraine.
But lets not pretend the West did not have a huge role in what is happening now.
It's cool how you, and people like you, keep taking away agency from the Ukrainian people. It's not like they're massively in favor of joining NATO and the EU, and massively opposed to the idea of being a Russian puppet state or anything.

Nah, they're just a pawn in a game between Russia and the West, and aren't allowed to make the choices they think best benefit them. Might as well just have given up the idea of being a sovereign nation, seeing as how the only thing they're apparently allowed to do is slowly being ground down by Russia. Because this was coming, Putin's been coveting Ukraine for years, and he was always going to move to bring them into the Russian sphere of influence.
 
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A bit off topic but I had no idea Ukraine was such a fertile land. I knew that the ancient Greeks colonized a part of it some 3000 years ago and it was something of agriculture powerhouse back them but i didn't realize it still was.
 
A bit off topic but I had no idea Ukraine was such a fertile land. I knew that the ancient Greeks colonized a part of it some 3000 years ago and it was something of agriculture powerhouse back them but i didn't realize it still was.
They and Russia are the premier suppliers of the world’s wheat. Agricultural powerhouses.
 
They and Russia are the premier suppliers of the world’s wheat. Agricultural powerhouses.

Am I wrong in thinking that they also are a leading country when it comes to silviculture?

PS: I just wanted to write silviculture.
 
This is likely why the Ukrainians are doing so well on the ground, I reckon.

 
So it is just a coincidence that he is running in the French President elections.

A coincidence that the french president is running in the french presidental elections which are organized every 5 years around the same period?
 
What really gets lost in all this 'buffer state' cynicism, is these were newly independent, democratic countries asking to join a defensive alliance of other democratic countries. We should want to encourage and protect fellow democratic states where we can, we should want to see peaceful democratic systems of government spread and take root, it's in our interests to do so, and it shows we actually believe in our system. I get that sometimes you might want to be pragmatic, and the West was in the case of Ukraine, but ultimately the reason Putin invaded was because he refused to accept Ukraine's right to determine its own future as a Western facing nation, and the reason they are fighting so valiantly, is because it's a cause they still think is worth it.

Except NATO isnt democratic. If it is s 50+1 could have bought the entrance ticket.

It's just US deciding who's in and who's not.