Discussion will go like this:
"shall we Implement a no-fly zone"
Everyone:
"Nah"
"Ok we're in agreement, next issue to discuss is...."
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
"shall we Implement a no-fly zone"
Everyone:
"Nah"
"Ok we're in agreement, next issue to discuss is...."
I don't think you can read anything from polls in Russia and Belarus, although I do agree that large swaths of the Russian population are complicit or indifferent. That's what enables so many terrible things to happen in the world.
And, yes, many of us Westerners would fail to be counted when history would test us too.
Nothing will happen, the costs and risk has gone too high.
When Russia were amassing troops and artillery on the border for 'training exercises', that's when US and couple of other nations should have placed the air force on Ukrainian soil and said we're doing 'training exercises' too.
Match bullshit with bullshit in public and let Russia know in absolute clear terms via the private channels that Ukraine is a sovereign state and there will be retaliation if Russia attacks. Put the onus on Putin and see how much he likes it.
Sanctions seem to be hurting. We should increase them then.
I'm sorry but who told you this ? They have had massive set backs and own goals yet still they advance and are pummelling cities with their artillery.
I agree with Varun here. It could have been done earlier, but it seems too late now. However, if sanctions are implemented properly with no major loopholes, Russia will be in a very very deep sh!te in a couple of weeks. Here is hoping that Ukraine will be able to withstand until then. As long as the Ukranian Army are supported with arms, it will be very difficult for Putin to achieve his goals. I have read that there are thousands of volunteers willing to fight on Ukranian side. This would help a lot too.
I think that the problem for him is that he's too far in to back down. Anything that isn't an outcome he can convincingly spin as a success back home is a none starter for him. And he knows that as pissed as Western states are, very few of them are willing to get into a direct military confrontation with Russia unless threatened directly in their home soil.
Russia has a massive army and, unless they are faced with a larger NATO led army, they will eventually take major cities in Ukraine. But it certainly may be true that it hasn't been as easy as they anticipated at the start (or as easy as the west thought).
That being said, this will go the way of the Soviets and US in Afghanistan and the US in Iraq. They might take over but they'll have hell to pay, the locals will hate them and eventually they will want to leave because it will be too much of a nuisance to retain.
Unfortunately, this is closer to my thinking.
I think there's a lot of misguided optimism about Russia and its society. You cannot underestimate the persecution complex ingrained in Eastern European nations. Some of it justified, most of it completely paranoia.
And even though Putin has been exaggerating this and using it to support his disgusting agenda, it's very much alive today. I definitely think North Korea'd Russia is much more likely than a regime change.
And then if Putin's cornered, he's even more dangerous. There appear to be no good choices at the moment, just less bad ones.
Yup, that's why I said it's too late and risky now. Only way this ends is if there's a coup or if there's a settlement which he can 'sell' as a win.
The time to intervene and stop this was when he hadn't started and could have gone 'I already said it was just training'.
I don't think he's being racist? He's suggesting that the idea of it being used in the continent where he lives is stomach churning, which it is.
Not sure I see the issue in this report to be honest. People can see what they want I guess
Unfortunately, this is true. I remember an absolute majority of Russians supporting annexation of Crimea. "Крым наш (Crime is ours)" was their motto of pride. Sanctions should remain for as long as Putain and his cronies are at the wheel. I am sure a lot of Russians still believe that Ukraine should be "denazified and demilitarized".
@golden_blunder i thought I’d get a warning for abuse. But homophobiawtf.
It’s a reference to this image that is banned is Russia because Putin is homophobic
These guys got it
I get what your plan was, but calling someone gay because they'll take it as an insult is one of the problems. To the many who won't get your reference, it will just seem like you're using gay as a straight-forward insult.
The western Armies will not step one foot in Ukraine, ever. Russia can do whatever they want to Ukraine, a no fly zone will never be implemented by NATO.
Even if Russia use a nuclear weapon, NATO still doesn’t enter while Russia exists. Nukes will just go off and 99 percent of people on the world die.
I do however have a sneaking (1 percent) feeling that if Russia used a nuclear weapon would the west even retaliate,?? Would we retaliate, I mean really, would we, would we take the hit and just let Russia exist, is Putin even thinking this?
I hear lots of people are booking in Ukraine AirBnBs just to give those in Ukraine money direct to help them get the essentials if they can. Good effort.
There have been many occasions in news reports over the last few days where europeans have casualy been portrayed as more civilised and less deserving of being hit by bombs.
Say, if Russia were to win this war very fast. Would sanctions remain in place for the next, say ,5 years?
I don't doubt that,
But What have those reports got to do with the one I was quoting on?
If they stayed, I'm not sure there's much Russia left in five years time
@golden_blunder i thought I’d get a warning for abuse. But homophobia
It’s a reference to this image that is banned is Russia because Putin is homophobic
These guys got it
I do love that painting.
I think sanctions are there to stay, otherwise we have learnt shit all.
the Russian government yesterday were saying the west would get over this so I thinkthey should be coming together and saying if military action doesnt cease by x date we all sign something so sanctions will remain for 10 years, 20 years
100% they would, if nukes were used on a Western country. Nope if in Ukraine.
Its scary how common or pervasive this propaganda has affected so many people. My mate in Moscow said eveactly the same things.
Doesn't Airbnb get a cut? Seems pretty ineffective. There's so many better ways to help, no?
I bloody hope so.
If sanctions are not lifted, Russian will turn into Iran and drop down even worse. Unfortunately, I am not sure if they are going to be enforced propely.
Surely the Russian people must know something is up when every foreign/neutral tv news channel is being shut down and only state tv is being broadcasted and any protesters are being rounded up and sent to jail? Or are they oblivious to it all?
Russians brainwashed… after four years with Trump leading the US and a failed coup, after all the Brexit thing aimed at dividing Europe, after having had Russian funded leaders and parties in all the EU to shift its geoplitics… after all that we are now complaining about Russians apathetically accepting their country becoming North Korea 2.0? A bit precious, maybe. Fortunately for us in the West, Biden’s apparatus is keeping all proportionally in touch, for now. What comes tomorrow, we can’t know yet… No one is expecting Putin just to backdrop with a snarl, that’s where people really knowing and managing warfare sh*t will hopefully come apt.
Guess I’d agree, is USA the only country to have the missile defence system?
Regardless I’ve heard stories of friends who live in Slovakia, when the Chernobyl cloud appeared over the skyline, so many stories of strange radiation related deaths. It’s best to just hope nothing happens.
We are within an inch however of something nuclear occurring which is just unbelievable.
I think it’s very clear most are aware of what’s happening (just look at the protests before the crackdown) but the majority don’t want to go to jail or worse. Russians haven’t been censored anywhere near the levels of the Chinese, although it’s getting more and more strict now.
Have we reached our limits when it comes to sanctions or can we afford even harsher ones? If the latter, then what's holding us back?
Of course they'd retaliate. They're not going to let just Russia live so that the human race goes on.
The more interesting question is what happens if Putin actually goes for a small non nuclear NATO nation. I'd expect retaliation via troops, air etc but what if Putin sends a nuke or 2 to flatten it and threatens nukes for the entire world if they don't back down?
Will US, UK, France etc say, 'Well, country X isn't worth ending the world for even though they're NATO' and let it be? I'd be surprised if Putin hasn't thought of this and push comes to shove, there's a part of me that thinks he'd be right and the west would back down.
NATO has a project of one, with a few pieces implemented. These things are always a bit unclear.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_missile_defence_system
I'd be surprised if the truly harsh ones remain in place even 5 months but I understand that's an unpopular opinion
Unfortunately, because of Soviet era and Russian empire times, many Russian people that I know have that feeling of supremacy and arrogance with regards to other nations that were part of USSR. How many Russians bothered to learn Ukranian while having lived there decades? The words from USSR anthem: "союз нерушимый республик свободных сплотила навеки великая русь... (unbreakable union of free republics were united forever by great Russia...)"
This is exactly what I’m referring to. I assume though if Mexico was targeted, the USA would retaliate.
That's my take, too, but if you really think about it, does he really need such a settlement? If he's forced to retreat, he could just spin it like "see? We denazified Ukraine and took out their military. There's no threat to Russians anymore". It would probably weakens his political position against people who know what really happens. But if the sanctioned didn't lead to a coup, this wouldn't either I suppose. Russia has moved past facts, they'll just sell to their public whatever suits their narrative the most.
I think the real question is: How much is the population willing to accept? We see at North Korea that "modern" dictatorships can completely dominate the population but in contrast to North Korea, the Russians actually got a glimps what freedom and luxury (relatively speaking) tastes like.
I don't think Nato would nuke Russia if the Russians set off a nuke in Ukraine, but I think you'd see Nato air raids and missiles on Russian targets in Ukraine immediately. Possibly land forces as well.
I'd say so, too. But I wouldn't be surprised if we pressed our main button if Russia nukes Ukraine either.
I'm still confused what Putin thinks will happen once he 'controls' Ukraine after battering it with artillery + missiles and forcing the entire population against him? Anyone? 
The whole nation is going to be ravaged. It'll be a wasteland.
The whole nation is going to be ravaged. It'll be a wasteland.