Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Raoul said:
Add to this the fact that Russian soldiers are conscripts with little interest in fighting in the first place, who are then probably underpaid and mistreated in a variety of ways, and its not particularly hard to see why they may underperform, abandon their vehicles, surrender etc.
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Getting basic rations that are 7 years old isn’t going to help you thinking that mother Russia cares about you that much either.
In that situation it’s entirely understandable that lots of soldiers half arse it. Would you really put yourself majorly in harms way when it’s clearly bollocks to begin with?
Had Ukraine been the aggressor and these Russian lads were fighting for their families and their homes the situation would be reversed I’m sure .
 
Raoul said:
Agreed. LNG transport and de/re gassification terminals should be priority #1.
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Surely all the shipyards that won't be building new yachts for Russian oligarchs will have some free time. The US should also amend the Jones Act, which creates problems for us in this area.
 
Sir Matt said:
Given the impending need to pivot from Russian gas, I would like to see the US, Europe, etc. start the process of building LNG container ships and processing facilities much more urgently than Scholz' prediction of a LNG facility being ready in a couple years. And start figuring out how to build more ships capable of installing wind turbines.
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Sines port has a very big storage capacity and facilities to process LNG, now just needs a pipeline through Pyrenees
 


Full statement on the planes. They need to be transported by road across the border. Starting to think this is all smoke and mirrors and they’ve already started doing just that - it’s a bit bizarre to publicly announce exactly where you’re parking them and let the world know ahead of time what’s happening and how.
 
Pintu said:
They might want more ”military advisers” from the Pentagon to help slaughter the Yemenis.
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The Iranian nuclear deal is ongoing in the background with Qatar also mediating between the Saudis and the Iranians.
 
FFS all this bureaucratic tiptoe-ing around eggshells while Russia blows civilians to shit is really grating.

We may as well build a NATO museum on the Eastern front and put these planes on show, so that the refugees can at least touch them and admire their shiny-ness while their families get annihilated.
 
Dr. Dwayne said:
Probably not that, they are just realizing that staying in Russia will have a significant impact on their reputation.
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That will also be a factor but ultimately if you don’t really have any significant profit to protect, the decision is very easy. The company I work for (US based) have not made a decision to pull out of Russia and at current FX there is no way we can have positive margins there which makes it even weirder.
 
Mickeza said:
Full statement on the planes. They need to be transported by road across the border. Starting to think this is all smoke and mirrors and they’ve already started doing just that - it’s a bit bizarre to publicly announce exactly where you’re parking them and let the world know ahead of time what’s happening and how.
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It makes me think there must have been a genuine communication breakdown that made Poland say: "Fine, you want our jets involved without it being a NATO mission, here you go, you do it."
 
Mickeza said:


Full statement on the planes. They need to be transported by road across the border. Starting to think this is all smoke and mirrors and they’ve already started doing just that - it’s a bit bizarre to publicly announce exactly where you’re parking them and let the world know ahead of time what’s happening and how.
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I think it is a safe bet that clandestine arms transfers to Ukraine are going on, just like happened during the Cold War. Whether that involves planes I'm not sure.
 
Mickeza said:


Full statement on the planes. They need to be transported by road across the border. Starting to think this is all smoke and mirrors and they’ve already started doing just that - it’s a bit bizarre to publicly announce exactly where you’re parking them and let the world know ahead of time what’s happening and how.
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Du... Du hast... Du hast Mig? Nein.
 
It fascinates me that some "experts" were calling for this 7 years ago and everyone was ignoring it. I remember when I heard a Serbian journalist (deceased now) saying that this will escalate to full blown war in Europe and I was thinking he is being sensationalist.

This is important stand for the west as if Russia gets what they want, this is sorta the end of west as the leader of the World.
 
Sarni said:
That will also be a factor but ultimately if you don’t really have any significant profit to protect, the decision is very easy. The company I work for (US based) have not made a decision to pull out of Russia and at current FX there is no way we can have positive margins there which makes it even weirder.
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Coca-Cola and McDonald's have worldwide reputations to worry about. Yes, your Russian operations probably start turning a loss even if you stay there but that's something they can absorb. When you have a massive global presence the threat of losing sales in other markets because you stayed in a controversial one carries more potential impact to your bottom line than that one market making a loss.
 
Dr. Dwayne said:
Coca-Cola and McDonald's have worldwide reputations to worry about. Yes, your Russian operations probably start turning a loss even if you stay there but that's something they can absorb. When you have a massive global presence the threat of losing sales in other markets because you stayed in a controversial one carries more potential impact to your bottom line than that one market making a loss.
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I get what you mean but if you are a company with Russian based plant and high margins, and on top of that sizeable portion of your profit is in Russia, you may have a tough decision to make. When your operations in Russia are mostly reliant on importing goods manufactured elsewhere and/or your revenue there is relatively small, it is a very easy decision to make. Reputation plays a big part of course, but the relative risk v reward is going to be crucial. You don’t want to stay in the market that doesn’t give you profit when it’s also bad for your reputation, but you may need to think twice about staying in a market that is not great for your reputation but offers large profit.

McDonald’s seems to have had almost 10% revenue in Russia and Ukraine, and I would imagine most of their products are locally sourced. For them to leave the market has to be mostly about reputation.
 
Raoul said:
Add to this the fact that Russian soldiers are conscripts with little interest in fighting in the first place, who are then probably underpaid and mistreated in a variety of ways, and its not particularly hard to see why they may underperform, abandon their vehicles, surrender etc.
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They are probably too busy looting now considering the news. Bring the goods back and sell it back in Mother Russia knowing that they may not be available in a few months' time.
 
Mickeza said:
This is the second time it’s been announced, first time by the EU and the second time it’s been rolled back. Farce.
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I believe there are hotlines between the Pentagon and the Kremlin right now, cold-war style crisis lines intended to prevent escalation or accidental all out war.

You just wonder what Russia said to America to make them cancel the aircraft handover for a second time.

Something like: "You let NATO give planes to Ukraine, and it's on"
 
Sarni said:
I get what you mean but if you are a company with Russian based plant and high margins, and on top of that sizeable portion of your profit is in Russia, you may have a tough decision to make. When your operations in Russia are mostly reliant on importing goods manufactured elsewhere and/or your revenue there is relatively small, it is a very easy decision to make. Reputation plays a big part of course, but the relative risk v reward is going to be crucial. You don’t want to stay in the market that doesn’t give you profit when it’s also bad for your reputation, but you may need to think twice about staying in a market that is not great for your reputation but offers large profit.

McDonald’s seems to have had almost 10% revenue in Russia and Ukraine, and I would imagine most of their products are locally sourced. For them to leave the market has to be mostly about reputation.
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Reputation is not just an issue elsewhere, in Russia McD would probably suffer a lot as well, considering they are a symbol for US culture and the propaganda machine is working overtime at the moment.
And how possible is it anyway to do business in Russia on an international scale with all the sanctions?
 
Isn't the problem more one of getting the planes into Ukraine without potentially confronting Russian's from a NATO departure?

Maybe they can land on a road and taxi them over!
 
This is an informative video (for instance, I didn't know that the Russian army relies heavily on railways for logistics support, and that the Ukrainians, knowing this, destroyed the tracks leading into Ukraine from Belorussia and W. Russia):

 
Maticmaker said:
Of course, but I was saying how he (Putin) does present it to the Russian people. Lets be honest if the Russian people wanted freedom and democracy they would have chosen it, like Ukraine has. Although there are probably lots of people in Russia who would welcome democracy, there must still be a significant number of the Russian population that does not want democracy, otherwise Putin would not be in power, they have been told to fear the West (in some cases with a certain amount of justification) and Putin plays to that fear.
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big contradiction here

you think they don't want democracy because they haven't voted for someone else (which would need to be done democratically)

obviously they don't have democracy so that isn't possible, the elections are not even close to democratic and Putin has complete control over the media

Russians want Putin wants them to want, and this war is the perfect example as they're brain-washed into thinking Ukraine are under oppressive Nazi control

and let's say you're Russian and see through all that media bias, okay great then you can vote for Navalny.. oh wait!
 
::sonny:: said:
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I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel for The Russians who have done nothing wrong and don't want anything to do with this. They're rapidly losing even basic escapism tools.

I know it's not a patch on what the Ukrainians are going through but less tough is still tough.
 
Dancfc said:
I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel for The Russians who have done nothing wrong and don't want anything to do with this. They're rapidly losing even basic escapism tools.

I know it's not a patch on what the Ukrainians are going through but less tough is still tough.
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Maybe it will lead to more of them trying to figure out why all of this is happening. Russia shutting off any outside media or criticism should set off major warning lights, but I assume most Russians are accustomed to it?
 
Sir Matt said:
Maybe it will lead to more of them trying to figure out why all of this is happening. Russia shutting off any outside media or criticism should set off major warning lights, but I assume most Russians are accustomed to it?
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Bar the completely and utterly far gone in terms of brainwashing they probably do, however the problem is any attempts by Joe Public to do their bit has them in the slammer for an indefinite period. If a elderly survivor of the siege of Leningrad is fair game to that treatment anyone is.
 
Sir Matt said:
Maybe it will lead to more of them trying to figure out why all of this is happening. Russia shutting off any outside media or criticism should set off major warning lights, but I assume most Russians are accustomed to it?
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For as long as western propaganda exists, it won't make a difference. Even if western propaganda is 5% to Russia's 95% you can always look at the 5% to question the remaining 95% and Russia's propaganda will sound even more convincing.
 
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