Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

What if Putin said he would take his troops out of Ukraine only if the sanctions were lifted. Do you think the West would agree to this?

It likely wouldn’t work since he has proven consistently that his word means nothing. It also wouldn’t address the need to penalize him for all the death and destruction he has caused.

If he pulls out, it would be as an act of desperation and self-preservation, not because he thinks it would get the sanctions lifted.
 
Looks like we are now entering the next level of conflicts: https://www.reuters.com/world/russi...eacekeepers-zone-nagorno-karabakh-2022-03-26/

In short, the war between Armenia and Azerbaijan over Nagorno-Karabakh in 2020 ended with a big win for Azerbaijan who took two thirds of the region, but was forced to stop there as Russian peacekeepers (yes, really) entered and made sure they won't take the rest of it. You know what the Turkish made Bayraktar drones are doing to the Russians in Ukraine? It's exactly that system that gave Azerbaijan a huge advantage.

Now it appears like these peacekeepers are needed in Ukraine, so Azerbaijan seems to be testing if they can safely take the rest of Nagorno-Karabakh
 


Russia is going to lose its mind over this, but they previously claimed that Biden stole the election so they really don't have any room to get mad.

That being said, it doesn't really help things.

Well, feck them. Peskov better try to tell the people of Mariupol how Biden's speech is more inflammatory than what is happening on the ground over there; it's not gonna go down well. Those idiots living in their Kremlin ivory tower all deserve to be called out.

Meanwhile, womp womp womp.
 
The Ukrainian reaction is tepid too.



Tom Nichols is on the opposite side of the Ukrainians mentioned as he wants to avoid any confrontation with Russia due to the potential strategic nuclear exchange that likely can occur.
 
The Ukrainian reaction is tepid too.


This is what I've been wondering. The West has supplied a load of weapons but mostly hand weapons and drones. Which is good but where's the really good sht at? Ok they cant set up a no fly zone but what about more anti missile systems. Tanks. Planes. Long range missiles etc. If we really want Ukraine to flatten the Russian army they need to more no? Think what damage they could do with a load of long range missiles that can take out the ships for instance or they could have taken out that convoy that was moving along at a mile an hour for like 3 weeks.
 
This is what I've been wondering. The West has supplied a load of weapons but mostly hand weapons and drones. Which is good but where's the really good sht at? Ok they cant set up a no fly zone but what about more anti missile systems. Tanks. Planes. Long range missiles etc. If we really want Ukraine to flatten the Russian army they need to more no? Think what damage they could do with a load of long range missiles that can take out the ships for instance or they could have taken out that convoy that was moving along at a mile an hour for like 3 weeks.

They are not trained to use any of those systems and it would take months to years to do so. Hard to do in an active conflict.
 
This is what I've been wondering. The West has supplied a load of weapons but mostly hand weapons and drones. Which is good but where's the really good sht at? Ok they cant set up a no fly zone but what about more anti missile systems. Tanks. Planes. Long range missiles etc. If we really want Ukraine to flatten the Russian army they need to more no? Think what damage they could do with a load of long range missiles that can take out the ships for instance or they could have taken out that convoy that was moving along at a mile an hour for like 3 weeks.

Anti-aircraft missile systems have also been supplied - e.g. the UK's Starstreak system, which is the world's fastest short-range surface-to-air missile.

But we need to remember that there's no point in supplying weapons that the Ukrainians haven't been trained to use, or can't be easily learnt how to use. Also, it's more difficult to transport into Ukraine big and bulky items that can't be hidden in a car boot or inside a civilian van. Anything transporting a tank, for example, could much easily be identified from the air and attacked.
 
Absolutely fecking surreal to see BBC News leading with reports of missile strikes on my wife’s hometown. I couldn’t get my head around it being the centre of the media world for the last few weeks even. It’s like when a film such as Children of Men has the mock-up BBC reports. Just feels like fiction.

Watching these things just fly in (all the way from the Black Sea!) is mental. They look so harmless and easy to intercept.

 
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They are not trained to use any of those systems and it would take months to years to do so. Hard to do in an active conflict.
Anti-aircraft missile systems have also been supplied - e.g. the UK's Starstreak system, which is the world's fastest short-range surface-to-air missile.

But we need to remember that there's no point in supplying weapons that the Ukrainians haven't been trained to use, or can't be easily learnt how to use. Also, it's more difficult to transport into Ukraine big and bulky items that can't be hidden in a car boot or inside a civilian van. Anything transporting a tank, for example, could much easily be identified from the air and attacked.
Is this true though? Obviously volunteers from the bakery wont have any idea but they have a trained military that I presume know how to fire missiles. Yeah might take them a bit to figure out new systems but not months/years. Send them to Poland for a couple of weeks training.

With regards to getting the systems in. Yeah that seems difficult. But again. Is this impossible or just difficult? Our intelligence probably know exactly where the Russians are. Just need to figure it out.
 
Is this true though? Obviously volunteers from the bakery wont have any idea but they have a trained military that I presume know how to fire missiles. Yeah might take them a bit to figure out new systems but not months/years. Send them to Poland for a couple of weeks training.

With regards to getting the systems in. Yeah that seems difficult. But again. Is this impossible or just difficult? Our intelligence probably know exactly where the Russians are. Just need to figure it out.

I'm sure NATO knows at all times where all Russian aircraft are above Ukraine, but knowing where they are is not the same things as stopping them from firing missiles or dropping bombs. For the latter you'd need NATO directly engaging in combat with Russian pilots - and that's been wisely ruled out.

I'm pretty sure that NATO countries - bar Hungary - are not withholding from Ukraine any weapons or weapons systems that Ukraine could, on a practical basis, make use of and that can be sent into Ukraine with a low chance of being destroyed before they get to where they're going to.
 
Apparently this kid is saying he’s Ukrainian and has seemingly been forced to fight for the Russians. feck’s sake

 
Aside from the logistics of getting them there, it also must be considered that NATO doesn’t want to chance the Russians getting their hands on any of our tanks or learn any lessons about defeating them in direct combat.
 
Understandable from the Ukranian POV. It's just empty tough talk from Biden aimed at a domestic audience who fall for such things.

No change of policy to be seen.

What change of policy do you want?
 
They are not trained to use any of those systems and it would take months to years to do so. Hard to do in an active conflict.
Using these weapons is easy, a child could do it. Maintaining them long term, however, they would need training. SAMs and any kind of RPGs or wire-guided missile is literally point and shoot. We should be sending them the “disposable” type of weaponry for this reason. Javelins, any Close Combat Missile System – (CCMS) TOW (Tube-Launched, Optically Tracked, Wireless-Guided and Tube-Launched, Optically Tracked, Wire-Guided) Missile is a bit more complicated but not much. That’s probably why the Polish MiGs were turned down too: who’s going to maintain them?
 
Using these weapons is easy, a child could do it. Maintaining them long term, however, they would need training. SAMs and any kind of RPGs or wire-guided missile is literally point and shoot. We should be sending them the “disposable” type of weaponry for this reason. Javelins, any Close Combat Missile System – (CCMS) TOW (Tube-Launched, Optically Tracked, Wireless-Guided and Tube-Launched, Optically Tracked, Wire-Guided) Missile is a bit more complicated but not much. That’s probably why the Polish MiGs were turned down too: who’s going to maintain them?
To be fair, the question he was responding to was asking about, among other things, tanks and planes.

But yes, absolutely right about maintenance knowledge being key to operating highly sophisticated weapons like mobile missile launchers, tanks, and planes, and that knowledge takes time to gain. Ukraine already has MiGs in their Air Force, so they’d likely be okay with those, but non-Soviet Bloc equipment they’d likely have a steep learning curve to overcome.
 
Apparently this kid is saying he’s Ukrainian and has seemingly been forced to fight for the Russians. feck’s sake


It is widely understood that Ukrainians still living in the DNR and LNR are forcibly conscripted into fighting for the Russian forces and against Ukraine.

It is mental that people think there is any way that Ukraine could recognise these “states”. They are merely fiefdoms of Russian militias and would continue to be exactly the cancerous growth Russia has always intended them to be as long as they exist.
 
I don't understand why NATO can't deploy their best air defences to protect Lviv. It's literally a stone's throw away from the Polish border and it's most definitely a key resupply hub for the Ukrainians.
 


Russia is going to lose its mind over this, but they previously claimed that Biden stole the election so they really don't have any room to get mad.

That being said, it doesn't really help things.

He's 78, he's got nothing to lose (albeit we might), but at least he's calling it as it is. I for one respect him for that.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...right-to-use-nuclear-weapons-in-ukraine-putin

"An adviser to Ukraine’s defence ministry, Markian Lubkivskyi, claimed on Saturday that Russia would soon lose control of the southern city of Kherson, the first major centre to fall to the Kremlin since the war began on 24 February.

He said: “I believe that today the city will be fully under the control of Ukrainian armed forces. We have finished in the last two days the operation in the Kyiv region so other armed forces are now focused on the southern part trying to get free Kherson and some other Ukrainian cities.”
 
I don't understand why NATO can't deploy their best air defences to protect Lviv. It's literally a stone's throw away from the Polish border and it's most definitely a key resupply hub for the Ukrainians.

That would mean direct NATO involvement in the Ukrainian airspace, it's not hard to understand.
 
That would mean direct NATO involvement in the Ukrainian airspace, it's not hard to understand.

Eh, we certainly can give the equipment to the Ukrainians at the border for them to set it up in Lviv itself.

Though if we're too scared to even set up air defences on the Polish side of the border, I'm starting to wonder just how far we'll let this fear of Putin cripple us.
 
Eh, we certainly can give the equipment to the Ukrainians at the border for them to set it up in Lviv itself.

Though if we're too scared to even set up air defences on the Polish side of the border, I'm starting to wonder just how far we'll let this fear of Putin cripple us.

Anti missile equipments are ultra high tech, it's not something you can just give with a manual. They have anti aircraft weapons already but it's pretty much useless against long range missiles. There's not a whole lot that can be done i'm afraid.
 
Anti missile equipments are ultra high tech, it's not something you can just give with a manual. They have anti aircraft weapons already but it's pretty much useless against long range missiles. There's not a whole lot that can be done i'm afraid.

Luckily, cruise missiles cost a lot so I don't see Russia firing them willy-nilly all over the West of Ukraine. But it's still a bit of a worry that we won't even defend against missiles, not even shooting any planes, just missiles in the West of the country when the capability is clearly there.
 
I don't understand why NATO can't deploy their best air defences to protect Lviv. It's literally a stone's throw away from the Polish border and it's most definitely a key resupply hub for the Ukrainians.

So would you like to see NATO getting involved and taking direct military action against Russia in Ukraine?
 
It is widely understood that Ukrainians still living in the DNR and LNR are forcibly conscripted into fighting for the Russian forces and against Ukraine.

It is mental that people think there is any way that Ukraine could recognise these “states”. They are merely fiefdoms of Russian militias and would continue to be exactly the cancerous growth Russia has always intended them to be as long as they exist.
Which brings the question as to what should happen to those annexed territories down the road and considering that a vast majority of civilians have been either forcefully evacuated or even forced into this mess. Puppet governments in both DNR and LNR will have to be brought down anyhow before Ukraine can formally regain control over those areas (I think it's far more complicated with Crimea though).

And I thought that child soldiers being forced to fight was only a thing in underdevelopped countries. Fecking animals.
 
So would you like to see NATO getting involved and taking direct military action against Russia in Ukraine?

I would for missiles targeted at Lviv. If the precision guidance on those missiles has a malfunction, then the refugees and NATO soldiers at the Polish border are going to have a very bad day.

If it's a Kinzhal then fair enough, nothing you can do about that.
 
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I would for missiles targeted at Lviv. If the precision guidance on those missiles has a malfunction, then the refugees and NATO soldiers at the Polish border are going to have a very bad day.

If it's a Kinzhal then fair enough, nothing you can do about that.
It’s over 40 miles from Lviv to the Polish border.
 
It’s over 40 miles from Lviv to the Polish border.

And those 40 miles should be covered by proper anti-missile defences stationed on the Polish side of the border.

I can see why we don't want to shoot planes down, but not even wanting to defend against missiles? Ugh.

I guess if accidents happen we can always move our defences a few more miles back and wag our finger ferociously at the Russians.
 
And those 40 miles should be covered by proper anti-missile defences stationed on the Polish side of the border.

I can see why we don't want to shoot planes down, but not even wanting to defend against missiles? Ugh.

I guess if accidents happen we can always move our defences a few more miles back and wag our finger ferociously at the Russians.

NATO anti missile systems will kick in should a missile enter polish airspace. 40 miles into another country isn't your airspace, it's that simple
 
I would for missiles targeted at Lviv. If the precision guidance on those missiles has a malfunction, then the refugees and NATO soldiers at the Polish border are going to have a very bad day.

If it's a Kinzhal then fair enough, nothing you can do about that.

Yeah but whether it's western Ukraine, Eastern Ukraine or anywhere in Ukraine. It's still Ukraine and NATO can't intervene directly as Ukraine sadly isn't a member of NATO.

Don't worry Russia won't be firing any missiles that veer into NATO territory. They might be a bit incompetent but they're not stupid, an incident like that would give NATO justification to intervene in this conflict and Russia certainly don't want that as they seem to be having enough problems just fighting the Ukrainians.
 
Suppose, just suppose, that this was all really just about liberating the Donbass area of Ukraine, as ridiculous as that sounds in light of all the entire world has witnessed.

Why not go through the proper channels for that? Why not petition the UN for a free and fair referendum for independence? Make a show of doing it the right way; show that you genuinely care about the people who live there, regardless of their sympathies to Kyev or Moscow.

That might actually have worked. People could have had legitimate sympathy for Russia if they had even disingenuously gone down the proper channels to engineer a peaceful secession.

Instead, they have gone in all guns blazing and literally flattened entire cities; not only that, they have seemingly committed the most egregious war crimes along the way. Any credibility that they could have laid claim to before has been tossed to the four winds.

Russia's reputation as a nation is in tatters literally for generations and one idiotic fool of a man has put paid to it.
 
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