Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Rajma said:
It doesn’t change the fact that it makes their most recent publication basically worthless from actual content value perspective yet it creates a lot of damage. For the Russian propaganda you only need one report anyway, money well spent.
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they aren't russian propaganda. it's just baseless, childish, and pointless to continue that narrative with all the evidence given to the contrary including some on the last page. will the russians use the report of ukrainian wrongdoing the same as the israelis amplified the report of hamas wrongdoing? yes. does it mean the reports are propaganda? no. i see more reputational damage being done by the ukrainian narrative that wants to paint amnesty as propagandists. they should just refute the report as they have and move on.
 
neverdie said:


they aren't russian propaganda. it's just baseless, childish, and pointless to continue that narrative with all the evidence given to the contrary including some on the last page. will the russians use the report of ukrainian wrongdoing the same as the israelis amplified the report of hamas wrongdoing? yes. does it mean the reports are propaganda? no.
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Ok, they are highly stupid people then if they decided to press ahead with report based on claims from occupied places under the guidance of pseudo journalist or activists (fsb) in filtration camps? Happy?
 
Rajma said:
That guy is talking a lot sense,
they should have published 10 thousand reports on Russia atrocities before committing one to Ukraine for the ratio to be accurate with respect to endangering civilians. I’m not sure it’s a stretch to believe they’re being the influenced by the agents from Israeli or Russian securities services.
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Israeli security services? Did you notice that Amnesty published a report where they called Israel's policy towards Arabs and Palestinians apartheid? And the outrage that caused among defenders of the state of Israel? And now you're suggesting they're in Israel's pocket? Wow.

I don't think I need to answer to the rest, this shows you what you're missing regarding Amnesty. (Who I'm not claiming are faultless. I just don't think their faults come from a pro-Russian bias.)
 
neverdie said:
again, is this the organization you want to call an "arm of the russian state"? the one that has been criticizing and charging russia with warcrimes since february?
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Your beating a dead horse now, apart from a few initial knee-jerk reactions, I don't think anyone is suggesting Amnesty is an "arm of the russian state".

However, do you think Russia doesn't at least try to infiltrate and manipulate organisations such as this?
 
Actually in Austria, not Germany.
Ironically rubbing 'free speech' in the faces of her fellow Russians who can't do this kind of thing at home, because of actual fascism.

 
Simbo said:
Your beating a dead horse now, apart from a few initial knee-jerk reactions, I don't think anyone is suggesting Amnesty is an "arm of the russian state".

However, do you think Russia doesn't at least try to infiltrate and manipulate organisations such as this?
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the poster linked to a tweet that claimed exactly that. he edited it out though. otherwise i agree.

maybe. perhaps all states see value in it? all i know is all states condemn and praise these organisations selectively, whenever it fits their agenda.
 
Simbo said:
Actually in Austria, not Germany.
Ironically rubbing 'free speech' in the faces of her fellow Russians who can't do this kind of thing at home, because of actual fascism.

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She's toast. Only a matter of time before the internet geolocate and hound her into oblivion.
 
Simbo said:
Actually in Austria, not Germany.
Ironically rubbing 'free speech' in the faces of her fellow Russians who can't do this kind of thing at home, because of actual fascism.

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She better hope to not be in a Martin Scorcese movie because there is always that scene when a random idiot says something wrong and ends up earning quite the beating from the angry protagonist. The random idiot here is that woman.
 
Frosty said:
I still cannot believe there are reports of Russia mining a nuclear power plant.
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And are actively using it as a base of operations (if I haven't misunderstood that).

I wonder how the soldiers operating from there are feeling about it. It must be so scary to be conducting war right out of a freakin' nuclear plant!
 
Cheimoon said:
And are actively using it as a base of operations (if I haven't misunderstood that).

I wonder how the soldiers operating from there are feeling about it. It must be so scary to be conducting war right out of a freakin' nuclear plant!
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I mean, the ones at Chernobyl dug trenches, so who knows?
 
Cheimoon said:
And are actively using it as a base of operations (if I haven't misunderstood that).

I wonder how the soldiers operating from there are feeling about it. It must be so scary to be conducting war right out of a freakin' nuclear plant!
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Nobody cares about them.

That's the huge difference between any Western army and the Russian army. If any Western army used its soldiers the way the Russians do, we'd have a revolution back home. The Russians simply don't care.

(And no, I don't believe that "they don't know". I believe "they don't want to know". )
 
Raoul said:
She's toast. Only a matter of time before the internet geolocate and hound her into oblivion.
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Cancel culture when it's a good thing
 

I think it has been pretty evident for some time now that the US are holding off from supporting Ukraine too much beyond the means necessary for the stalemate and not Ukrainian offensive. Everyone knows if US really would have gone hard with the military support the conclusion would have been long forgone. I’m really thankful that they stood for Ukraine when European leaders have thrown them under the bus, hopefully, Biden and leadership can still wake up and understand that Putin is more dangerous when he smells weaknesses.
 
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Simbo said:
Actually in Austria, not Germany.
Ironically rubbing 'free speech' in the faces of her fellow Russians who can't do this kind of thing at home, because of actual fascism.

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Jesus fecking Christ. How did they not threw her off the bridge right there.
 
Obviously he has the right to say anything he wants but that's such a stupid argument. I thought that we've already went past this phase at the very beginning of the war & Zelensky himself openly spoke against it, and yet here we are again — with the likes of Finland, Estonia joining the call.

In a wide-ranging interview with The Washington Post, Zelensky said that “the most important sanctions are to close the borders — because the Russians are taking away someone else’s land.” He said Russians should “live in their own world until they change their philosophy.”

Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin told reporters Monday that she believes issuing tourist visas to Russians should be restricted and called for a European Union-wide ban.
Some critics have argued that banning all Russians would unfairly impact those who have left their country because they disagree with President Vladimir Putin’s government and his decision to attack Ukraine.
Zelensky said such distinctions don’t matter: “Whichever kind of Russian … make them go to Russia.”
“They’ll understand then,” he said. “They’ll say, ‘This [war] has nothing to do with us. The whole population can’t be held responsible, can it?’ It can. The population picked this government and they’re not fighting it, not arguing with it, not shouting at it.”

“Don’t you want this isolation?” Zelensky added, speaking as if he were addressing Russians directly. “You’re telling the whole world that it must live by your rules. Then go and live there. This is the only way to influence Putin.”
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/08/08/ukraine-zelensky-interview-ban-russian-travelers/

Stopping Russians from leaving the country benefits only Putin, for whom the full isolation of his people from the West and its influence is the ideal scenario. People who oppose him will get imprisoned, independent journalists won't be able to provide an alternative point of view to a Russian-speaking audience etc.

I keep thinking of Walter Benjamin, who had killed himself because Spain refused to let him through to U.S. and threatened to return him to Nazi-occupied France. On the next day all the people from his group were let through (most likely because of his suicide), yet we had lost one of the most brilliant minds of the XXth century. And the plethora of German internationals that had fled the Third Reich only to continue to fight with Hitler and his regime until the end of the war (like Thomas Mann with his radio addresses). Nah, the Allies should've sent them back to Germany to overthrow Hitler with sticks and stones.
 
harms said:
Obviously he has the right to say anything he wants but that's such a stupid argument. I thought that we've already went past this phase at the very beginning of the war & Zelensky himself openly spoke against it, and yet here we are again — with the likes of Finland, Estonia joining the call.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/08/08/ukraine-zelensky-interview-ban-russian-travelers/

Stopping Russians from leaving the country benefits only Putin, for whom the full isolation of his people from the West and its influence is the ideal scenario. People who oppose him will get imprisoned, independent journalists won't be able to provide an alternative point of view to a Russian-speaking audience etc.

I keep thinking of Walter Benjamin, who had killed himself because Spain refused to let him through to U.S. and threatened to return him to Nazi-occupied France. On the next day all the people from his group were let through (most likely because of his suicide), yet we had lost one of the most brilliant minds of the XXth century. And the plethora of German internationals that had fled the Third Reich only to continue to fight with Hitler and his regime until the end of the war (like Thomas Mann with his radio addresses). Nah, the Allies should've sent them back to Germany to overthrow Hitler with sticks and stones.
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I'm pretty indifferent about this, but what is the benefit of letting Russians pass through Finland and have a holiday in Italy/France? Pretty much none of the people crossing the border at the moment are people looking to move out of Russia.
 
harms said:
Obviously he has the right to say anything he wants but that's such a stupid argument. I thought that we've already went past this phase at the very beginning of the war & Zelensky himself openly spoke against it, and yet here we are again — with the likes of Finland, Estonia joining the call.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/08/08/ukraine-zelensky-interview-ban-russian-travelers/

Stopping Russians from leaving the country benefits only Putin, for whom the full isolation of his people from the West and its influence is the ideal scenario. People who oppose him will get imprisoned, independent journalists won't be able to provide an alternative point of view to a Russian-speaking audience etc.

I keep thinking of Walter Benjamin, who had killed himself because Spain refused to let him through to U.S. and threatened to return him to Nazi-occupied France. On the next day all the people from his group were let through (most likely because of his suicide), yet we had lost one of the most brilliant minds of the XXth century. And the plethora of German internationals that had fled the Third Reich only to continue to fight with Hitler and his regime until the end of the war (like Thomas Mann with his radio addresses). Nah, the Allies should've sent them back to Germany to overthrow Hitler with sticks and stones.
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I kind of agree with this. If you can't speak your mind in Russia in opposition to the war without risking 7 years I prison, I don't see the point of not allowing them into western countries.
 
massi83 said:
I'm pretty indifferent about this, but what is the benefit of letting Russians pass through Finland and have a holiday in Italy/France? Pretty much none of the people crossing the border at the moment are people looking to move out of Russia.
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The second part of your statement simply isn't true.

As for those Russians who go on holidays? Generally I couldn't care less about those but stopping them from doing so also doesn't influence the war or Europe's security in any way (if it does and I just don't see it, I'm open to listen to contrary opinions).
 
The airbase is located 200km behind the front lines and well beyond the striking range of Gmlrs or Tochka-u rockets.


 
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harms said:
The second part of your statement simply isn't true.

As for those Russians who go on holidays? Generally I couldn't care less about those but stopping them from doing so also doesn't influence the war or Europe's security in any way (if it does and I just don't see it, I'm open to listen to contrary opinions).
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Percentage-wise it is absolutely true. On absolute numbers it is probably in the hundreds, so depends on definition. It has been over 5 months, most people who wanted to move have done so or at least applied for the visa already, doubt they will be cancelling existing ones. And it isn't like it would be forever or that there are no other ways to get out of Russia.
 
2nd strike today outside the range of anything we know Ukraine has, or these HARM missiles that have just been delivered. Could be sabotage I suppose.
 
Yeh this ain't sabotage. If you look at google maps, the plane parking spots are spread out accross a massive ring road. Looks like they've covered most of it though. This place is done for.

 
Simbo said:
2nd strike today outside the range of anything we know Ukraine has, or these HARM missiles that have just been delivered. Could be sabotage I suppose.
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Although it is not what they are inteded for, the more modern versions of HARM missiles could at least in theory be used for this. They have been fitted with GPS recivers to be able to target radars that are switching off so they have navigation capabilities to strike regular ground targets.
 
the hea said:
Although it is not what they are inteded for, the more modern versions of HARM missiles could at least in theory be used for this. They have been fitted with GPS recivers to be able to target radars that are switching off so they have navigation capabilities to strike regular ground targets.
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AT 200km+ range? If fighter launched I suppose they could have approached from the west over the sea if there are is no Russian Nazy operating there now.
 
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Simbo said:
Actually in Austria, not Germany.
Ironically rubbing 'free speech' in the faces of her fellow Russians who can't do this kind of thing at home, because of actual fascism.

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Didn’t end Well. Booking.com canceled all her reservations, now there’s crocodile tears on Telegram.

 
Doesn't Russia have extensive missile defence systems that should stop this kind of attack happening? It seems like multiple rockets got through. If this war is seen in the wider context of Nato weaponry vs Russian defence I'd imagine there are a few worried generals in Putin's army at the moment.
 
When the war comes to you:



I've seen speculation that it could be Ukraine's own Grom missiles, which have been under development.
 
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