Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion



Ukraine has been confirmed to have returned into Luhansk oblast.
Unconfirmed reports of them being in Lysychansk, seems far fetched right now.
 
Yesterday the German government announced that Ukraine will get four more PzH 2000 SPGs out of Bundeswehr stock. The material keeps flowing into Ukraine
 
Draft law to criminalise refusal to take part in combat actions proposed to Russian State Duma. Sentence up to 10 years of penal colony

Reservists summoned to the military units, but failed to arrive, will face the same punishment as contract deserters

Russian State Duma adopted all amendments to the penal code, including for reservists. Even for companies "for refusal to accept military production contract for the 2nd time" e.g. director of any company will be sent to jail, after refusing to sign a MoD contract twice

 
Pretty much all occupied regions are rushing to hold fake referendums of joining Russia.


 
Pretty much all occupied regions are rushing to hold fake referendums of joining Russia.



Are they trying to force Ukraine to rush an attack at a high cost?

Surely they realise no one will recognise the result of such a referendum?
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62965993

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has said he believes Russia's leader is seeking an end to the war he began in Ukraine, and that a "significant step" will be made.

He said his impression from recent talks with Vladimir Putin was that he wanted to "end this as soon as possible".

Ukraine has recaptured swathes of its territory this month.

The Turkish leader indicated things were "quite problematic" for Russia.

Mr Erdogan spoke of having "very extensive discussions" with Mr Putin at a summit in Uzbekistan last week.
 
Are they trying to force Ukraine to rush an attack at a high cost?

Surely they realise no one will recognise the result of such a referendum?
Well, they cannot continue the way it is now. They are gradually losing occupied territory and 100s of their soldiers die every day which surely should make them quite desperate. They still have a few cards left at play to escalate things and I think they are throwing them now. The change in tune from some of the most prominent propagandists has been quite obvious the last few days/weeks, they are quite openly talking of being in a war against NATO. So either they have already entered a phase of "there is no shame in failing to achieve some of the objectives because we fought the entire NATO block and since we are the good guys here, we don't want to escalate things further and will settle for the regions we already control since the fair referendums resulted in them wanting to join Russia", or they are about to escalate things a lot more. I guess we will find out pretty soon.

 
Pretty much all occupied regions are rushing to hold fake referendums of joining Russia.



It really looks like he's made up his mind on mobilization and this will be the official excuse. I can't think on another reason to do those, especially in such a rush (they've postponed them many times, the original ones were supposed to take place in May, I believe). Scary shit.
 
It really looks like he's made up his mind on mobilization and this will be the official excuse. I can't think on another reason to do those, especially in such a rush (they've postponed them many times, the original ones were supposed to take place in May, I believe). Scary shit.
How wide ranging would mobilization be? Do we know?
 
It really looks like he's made up his mind on mobilization and this will be the official excuse. I can't think on another reason to do those, especially in such a rush (they've postponed them many times, the original ones were supposed to take place in May, I believe). Scary shit.

I had similar scary thoughts sadly. A Ukrainian counter attack vs lost territory is 'different' to an attack on Russia and I imagine this is now he will try to frame it. For feck sake.
 
Well, they cannot continue the way it is now. They are gradually losing occupied territory and 100s of their soldiers die every day which surely should make them quite desperate. They still have a few cards left at play to escalate things and I think they are throwing them now. The change in tune from some of the most prominent propagandists has been quite obvious the last few days/weeks, they are quite openly talking of being in a war against NATO. So either they have already entered a phase of "there is no shame in failing to achieve some of the objectives because we fought the entire NATO block and since we are the good guys here, we don't want to escalate things further and will settle for the regions we already control since the fair referendums resulted in them wanting to join Russia", or they are about to escalate things a lot more. I guess we will find out pretty soon.


Insane footage... Russian TV slowly approaching some kind of reporting the reality?!

It really looks like he's made up his mind on mobilization and this will be the official excuse. I can't think on another reason to do those, especially in such a rush (they've postponed them many times, the original ones were supposed to take place in May, I believe). Scary shit.
Time for you to get to a safe place? Hope you will still be able to...
 
How wide ranging would mobilization be? Do we know?
Who knows, really. The consensus is that the current system isn't ready for a mobilization so if it'll happen, we'll see. According to wiki they currently have around 2 million men in reserve but that's as far as my expertise go.
 
Who knows, really. The consensus is that the current system isn't ready for a mobilization so if it'll happen, we'll see. According to wiki they currently have around 2 million men in reserve but that's as far as my expertise go.
I am not an expert here either but out of those 2 million or so, how many of them actually held a gun in their life? I would assume it to be an extremely small minority. I just don't see how a mobilisation consisting of complete amateurs and the ones that don't want to take any part of it and are forced to do it, would help Russia much. I think it's another threat for the west to back down but in reality most of those mobilised people sent to the war would be just a meat grinder.
 
I am not an expert here either but out of those 2 million or so, how many of them actually held a gun in their life? I would assume it to be an extremely small minority. I just don't see how a mobilisation consisting of complete amateurs and the ones that don't want to take any part of it and are forced to do it, would help Russia much. I think it's another threat for the west to back down but in reality most of those mobilised people sent to the war would be just a meat grinder.
But that doesn't really work. They need to get Ukraine to back down and that's not going to happen. And the west will probably continue to send weapons to Ukraine as long as they request it.
 
I am not an expert here either but out of those 2 million or so, how many of them actually held a gun in their life? I would assume it to be an extremely small minority. I just don't see how a mobilisation consisting of complete amateurs and the ones that don't want to take any part of it and are forced to do it, would help Russia much. I think it's another threat for the west to back down but in reality most of those mobilised people sent to the war would be just a meat grinder.
They most likely held a gun but usually you get to shoot a couple of times during a 1-year service (those reservists are past conscripts). It's not something that is likely to change the course of the war though, as you've said, the only thing this will likely achieve is, simply, a lot more deaths from both sides (probably with way more losses on the Russian side).
 
But that doesn't really work. They need to get Ukraine to back down and that's not going to happen. And the west will probably continue to send weapons to Ukraine as long as they request it.
I can't see how it would work either but I guess Putin is just out of options. He cannot justify deaths of over 50k people (+ feck knows how many injured) and have nothing to show for it so would rather risk the future of the entire nation to achieve his "win".
 
How wide ranging would mobilization be? Do we know?
At first they would probably only use people who are currently doing their conscript service and are so to say already in the army. About 300,000 people are drafted for conscript service every year in Russia so this is still a huge pool of manpower.
 
I had similar scary thoughts sadly. A Ukrainian counter attack vs lost territory is 'different' to an attack on Russia and I imagine this is now he will try to frame it. For feck sake.
I suspect so. I've long thought Ukraine, their allies, and supporters have missed a trick by not having one co-ordinated message. These things work better the simpler and shorter they are, I'd go for something like 'Return to your own borders and there will be peace'. Repeated not just by by Ukrainians, but all leaders and commentators, the same simple message, time after time.
 
I suspect so. I've long thought Ukraine, their allies, and supporters have missed a trick by not having one co-ordinated message. These things work better the simpler and shorter they are, I'd go for something like 'Return to your own borders and there will be peace'. Repeated not just by by Ukrainians, but all leaders and commentators, the same simple message, time after time.
I thought Ukraine and the west have been clear and unified in their message - the damage is done. Returning to Russia and declaring the war over is only the beginning. War crimes have taken place and Russia need to be held accountable.
 
It really looks like he's made up his mind on mobilization and this will be the official excuse. I can't think on another reason to do those, especially in such a rush (they've postponed them many times, the original ones were supposed to take place in May, I believe). Scary shit.
Mobilising a draft would be the beginning of the end for Putin. I reckon the public backlash would be so vast it would embolden potential coup-makers to actually try and assassinate depose him.
 
Mobilising a draft would be the beginning of the end for Putin. I reckon the public backlash would be so vast it would embolden potential coup-makers to actually try and assassinate depose him.
Would there be any, though? At least in public. People usually overestimate the capability of the public who have been living in these oppressive regimes for decades and underestimate the brutalty of the regimes.
 
Would there be any, though? At least in public. People usually overestimate the capability of the public who have been living in these oppressive regimes for decades and underestimate the brutalty of the regimes.
I think this would depend on how he uses any conscripts. He has been shoving prisoners straight into the front lines and this has been a disaster. IF he had any sense he would be putting conscripts into cover other regiments and freeing them up to move to Ukraine. So if your conscripted son ends up on guard duty in Novosibirsk, bored out of his brain then people will be less likely to complain.

There must be plenty of regiments of reasonably experienced troops still left within Russia...but maybe their generals are not trusted by Putin...so does he take the risk of "mobilising" these Generals or does he just throw conscripts into the meatgrinder?
 
The US should be shipping ATACMS missiles to Ukraine today in response to the proposed sham referenda.
 
I don't even see the need for such pretense, they can declare Berlin their territory the acceptance would be similar.
 
These referendums will change nothing on the actual war theater, the opposite actually, it will make Ukraine even more determined. As for mobilization if the dictator is going to press ahead with it, it will be all over very quickly for the regime.
 
Putin is attempting to end the war on terms favorable to him, which of course won't work and will only make him look worse both domestically and internationally once the Ukrainians reclaim more territory.
 
Also he is backing himself into a corner. If he declares something is now Russia it would be impossible or rather extremely humiliating to undeclare if he is forced to accept some peace terms without that territory which has been already reclaimed by Ukraine.
 
Really desperate move - get those regions to 'vote' to join Russia, declare them part of Russia like Crimea and then say we're happy to stop the war. When Ukraine refuses say there is no choice but to mobilise the armed forces as they're protecting their lands and, more worryingly, he can then use that fabricated excuse to justify the previous threat of tactical nukes if Russian lands were being attacked. He is an old man, he doesn't give a shit what the world looks like in 10 years' time, the thousands who have died are solely because of him and the oligarchs who enabled him - his legacy should be to have his name synonymous with being a war criminal and nothing else.
 
Really desperate move - get those regions to 'vote' to join Russia, declare them part of Russia like Crimea and then say we're happy to stop the war. When Ukraine refuses say there is no choice but to mobilise the armed forces as they're protecting their lands and, more worryingly, he can then use that fabricated excuse to justify the previous threat of tactical nukes if Russian lands were being attacked. He is an old man, he doesn't give a shit what the world looks like in 10 years' time, the thousands who have died are solely because of him and the oligarchs who enabled him - his legacy should be to have his name synonymous with being a war criminal and nothing else.
Nobody on the nuclear table would care what shambolic excuse he produces, every country on it wants these to remain as a forever threat but never actually used. The nuclear taboo is real and they'd want to keep it that way. The response to such usage wouldn't in the slightest depend on whether someone claims a pile of dirt is now his.