F1 2022 Season

dinostar77 said:
Ferrari unhappy with the ruling.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/the-knock-on-impact-of-red-bull-penalty-thats-upset-ferrari/

"..Ferrari believes the overspend equates to a performance gain of two tenths and reiterated the team’s discontent at the “very limited’ penalty its rival had been given.

“We at Ferrari do not understand how the 10% reduction of the ATA can correspond to the same amount of lap time,” said Mekies.

“Furthermore, there is another problem in that since there is no budget cap reduction in the penalty, the basic effect is to push the competitor to spend the money elsewhere.

“It has total freedom to use the money it can no longer spend on use of the windtunnel and CFD due to the 10% reduction, on reducing the weight of the car or who knows what else.

Our concern is that the combination of these two factors means the real effect of the penalty is very limited....”
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Ferrari are the last team that should be moaning, after their illegal engine (maybe) a few seasons ago and that was all hushed up.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
Red Bull team principal Christian Horner says the team "begrudgingly accept" the FIA's decision to fine them and place restrictions on their car development time following a breach of the 2021 Formula 1 cost cap.

The FIA announced on Friday that Red Bull's 'minor' breach of the $145m limit in Max Verstappen's maiden title-winning campaign had resulted in a $7m fine and a 10 per cent reduction in their wind tunnel time over the next 12 months.


Red Bull reached an 'accepted breach agreement' (ABA) with the FIA on Wednesday, in which the team had to admit their wrongdoing, having come in $2.2m over the cap after inaccurately excluding or adjusting a number of costs. The FIA acknowledged if a tax credit had been correctly applied Red Bull would have only been $0.5m over, resulting in a breach of 0.37 per cent.

"We could have been looking at a 12-month period to have this situation closed," said Horner, describing what may have happened if Red Bull had chosen not to accept the ABA.

"The amount of speculation, commenting and sniping that has been going on in the paddock, we felt that it was in everybody's interest - our interest, the FIA's interest, in F1's interest - to say, 'we close the book', and we close the book here and today.

"We accept the penalties, begrudgingly, but we accept them."

Red Bull were already set to have less time in their wind tunnel - where F1 teams test and perfect aerodynamics on their car - than their rivals due to winning this year's constructors' championship, which they wrapped up last weekend in the USA to follow up Verstappen's second drivers' title.

With their penalty, Red Bull are set to have 25 runs in their wind tunnel next season instead of 28. Ferrari, by reference, will have 30 runs if they finish second in the championship, and Mercedes 32 should they end up third as expected. The constructor in last place has 46 runs.


"The more draconian part is the sporting penalty, which is a 10 per cent reduction in our ability to utilise our wind tunnel and aerodynamic tools," Horner said.

"I've heard people reporting today that it's an insignificant amount. Let me tell you now, that is an enormous amount. That represents anywhere between a quarter and half a second of a lap.

"That 10 per cent will have an impact on our ability to perform on track."


Amid 'cheating' accusations from McLaren boss Zak Brown and fierce criticism from other rivals, Red Bull have protested their innocence throughout, and Horner rejected suggestions that his team owes anyone an apology.

"I think that we're probably due an apology from some of our rivals for some of the claims that they've made," he said.

"We make no apology for the way that we've performed, the way that we've acted. We do take on the chin that there are lessons to be learned, and potentially mistakes have been made in our submission, which with the benefit of hindsight and 20-20 vision, everybody can be a specialist. But there was no intent, there was nothing dishonest, and there was certainly no cheating involved, which has been alleged in certain corners. So I don't feel that we need to apologise.


"We've taken our pounding in public, we've taken a very public pounding through the accusations that have been made by other teams. We've had our drivers booed at circuits, and the reputational damage that's been made by allegations has been significant. The time is now for that to stop and move on."

Horner, who said he is confident Red Bull will be under the cost cap for the 2022 season, admitted the team will have to work "incredibly hard" to overcome the sporting penalty over the next two years.

"It's a handicap," he said. "We are going to have to work incredibly hard. It gives an advantage to our competitors, which is why they were pushing so hard for a draconian penalty.

"We've taken our pounding in public, we've taken a very public pounding through the accusations that have been made by other teams. We've had our drivers booed at circuits, and the reputational damage that's been made by allegations has been significant. The time is now for that to stop and move on."

Horner, who said he is confident Red Bull will be under the cost cap for the 2022 season, admitted the team will have to work "incredibly hard" to overcome the sporting penalty over the next two years.

"It's a handicap," he said. "We are going to have to work incredibly hard. It gives an advantage to our competitors, which is why they were pushing so hard for a draconian penalty.
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Cheats are going to cheat. Then try to spin the feeble punishment as a significant one.
 
So when Lewis and Bottas smashed into Red Bull cars in 2021, and caused $3m worth of damage between them, applying current Ferrari and Merc logic we can say they were also robbing RB of at least a second in lap time.

What clever bastards
 
Alonso stirring the pot again...

FPqg8Qe.jpg
 
hobbers said:
So when Lewis and Bottas smashed into Red Bull cars in 2021, and caused $3m worth of damage between them, applying current Ferrari and Merc logic we can say they were also robbing RB of at least a second in lap time.

What clever bastards
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No no no that’s daft. That was Red Bulls fault so they should have to pay for the repairs to their opponents cars for having the temerity to be on a racing track and allowing themselves to get wiped out.
 
Drawfull said:
Not that outlandish. The amount spent on actual car development is only a very small part of the overall budget.
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Its hyperbole is what it is. Teams spend millions over a season, upto 4 or 5 a minimum and hardly gain a few tenths.
 
avgp_1 said:
Its hyperbole is what it is. Teams spend millions over a season, upto 4 or 5 a minimum and hardly gain a few tenths.
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It's not hyperbole. All the other teams have said similar, that a couple of million overspend is a couple of tenths a lap and their reasoning for this is the same: spent on actual car development, that extra couple of million is huge.

I'll add context to this by saying I think RB have got off quite lightly, and since their own argument is that the overspend was nothing to do with the development of the car - i.e., catering for their staff and that doesn't affect a car's development, then the other teams have it right. RB can't have it both ways.
 
Drawfull said:
It's not hyperbole. All the other teams have said similar, that a couple of million overspend is a couple of tenths a lap and their reasoning for this is the same: spent on actual car development, that extra couple of million is huge.

I'll add context to this by saying I think RB have got off quite lightly, and since their own argument is that the overspend was nothing to do with the development of the car - i.e., catering for their staff and that doesn't affect a car's development, then the other teams have it right. RB can't have it both ways.
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Doesn't the tax credit thing make the overspending to about 500k as per the FIA?
 
phelans shorts said:
It was. The vast majority was a tax issue and the actual overspend was around 400k
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Still a chunk of 'car development' money. I don't make the breakdown criteria, and am inclined to argue that technically every penny spent ultimately benefits the car, but by F1's own numbers even 400k is almost 10% of money spent on the actual development of the car.
 
Withnail said:
Puts everyone on ignore this lad.
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It's literally all he talks about, I reckon he has everyone who is non Hamilton fan on ignore by now.

elmo said:
2021 budget affects 2021 car and beyond. Nobody is starting development from scratch annually.
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With new rules, this year's cars are basically new cars. You can't have it both ways, 1,8m is really not that much extra development for one season, and especially not for two seasons.

Cost cap was introduced in 2021, like someone said, why weren't Ferrari so much better than anyone else in last ten years or so if 1,8m extra gives you so much advantage?

And again, this is coming from a Ferrari fan. Red Bull cheated, 1% over cost cap is ridiculously low considering how far ahead everyone they are this season.
 
Nobody gives the ignore function a better work out than the caf's Hamilton fans.
 
dinostar77 said:
Ferrari unhappy with the ruling.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/the-knock-on-impact-of-red-bull-penalty-thats-upset-ferrari/

"..Ferrari believes the overspend equates to a performance gain of two tenths and reiterated the team’s discontent at the “very limited’ penalty its rival had been given.

“We at Ferrari do not understand how the 10% reduction of the ATA can correspond to the same amount of lap time,” said Mekies.

“Furthermore, there is another problem in that since there is no budget cap reduction in the penalty, the basic effect is to push the competitor to spend the money elsewhere.

“It has total freedom to use the money it can no longer spend on use of the windtunnel and CFD due to the 10% reduction, on reducing the weight of the car or who knows what else.

Our concern is that the combination of these two factors means the real effect of the penalty is very limited....”
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dinostar77 said:
Zac Brown not happy with the ruling either.

“Nine teams got it right, and it was confirmed that one team was clearly in breach, so that’s a positive outcome.

But on the negative side, it’s also clear that from my point of view that the penalty clearly doesn’t fit the breach. I just hope that moving forward we have stricter penalties in place.”
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Someone should ask these idiots why they agreed to the proposals (including the punishments) beforehand.
 
Amar__ said:
It's literally all he talks about, I reckon he has everyone who is non Hamilton fan on ignore by now.



With new rules, this year's cars are basically new cars. You can't have it both ways, 1,8m is really not that much extra development for one season, and especially not for two seasons.

Cost cap was introduced in 2021, like someone said, why weren't Ferrari so much better than anyone else in last ten years or so if 1,8m extra gives you so much advantage?

And again, this is coming from a Ferrari fan. Red Bull cheated, 1% over cost cap is ridiculously low considering how far ahead everyone they are this season.
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Not if the bulk of it was spent on engine development. There’s an engine development freeze from 2022 till 2026 and if Red Bull exceeded the budget to do more development last year it would have given them a head start which most teams will be unable to catch up due to the development freeze.

And again, this budget overspend was for last season where they lost to Mercedes and fluked out a championship for Max. We’ll only know how much Red Bull spent for this season next year but it’ll be dodgy again given how most teams had to cut staffs to make the budget while Red Bull was snapping up staffs.
 
Honestly feel it's a pretty big punishment given the low amount (<400k) and the mitigating circumstances like the post submission rule change among others. Ferrari and Mercedes have a lot more CFD and wind tunnel time for next season so should be able to overtake Red Bull. No excuses for them now. Game on.
 
Did red bull have extra money to spend on this years car when the claim back there tax? also on the tax isn’t it a bit silly that this is counted as teams are set up in different countries with different tax rates. If a team really want to gain extra money they could shift there headquarters to country with low corporations tax.
 
Ooh I wanna be ignored by dino too.

Hamilton is shit and he had it easy with a great car and Max deserved the win last year and this year is showing how average Lucky Lewis is without the best car amirite guys?
 
The Firestarter said:
Try to see how it is at r/LewisHamilton . Will get you banned if you had posted smth they don't like at a random different reddit :lol:
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They're the F1 equivalent of Bluemoon.


elmo said:
We’ll only know how much Red Bull spent for this season next year but it’ll be dodgy again given how most teams had to cut staffs to make the budget while Red Bull was snapping up staffs.
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All teams cut staff numbers. Mercedes cut the fewest despite having the biggest workforce to start with. Teams like RB and AM signing up the odd big-name aerodynamicist is irrelevant.
 
Amar__ said:
1,8m is really not that much extra development for one season, and especially not for two seasons.
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It's about 20% of a development budget for a single season. It's a significant amount considering the up roar from Horner over 10% reduction on just wind tunnel and CFD time.
 
dinostar77 said:
Cant be arsed. Adding you to my ignore list. Bye.
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So because someone has a different opinion to you, you put them on ignore? You Merc fans are unreal.

I remember when there wasn't this bitterness between fans of different teams of this sport, god I wish those days were back now. Between here and reddit it's just a cesspool, nowhere to just discuss F1 without it turning in to the childish crap that's goes on here :rolleyes:
 
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