Yeah I mean world economy and political view should continue to be dominated by west instead right. We don’t need a more equitable balanced world setup at all.
Qatar or Ineos - which owners would you prefer? | Vote now Private
- Thread starter Zlatattack
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Yeah I mean world economy and political view should continue to be dominated by west instead right. We don’t need a more equitable balanced world setup at all.
Agreed on pretty much all of that. Additionally, often the louder you preach it the less people you tend to convert. I’d be interested to see if any people have had their mind changed from supporting Qatar by the arguments that have gone on in here. From my own experience people rarely change their minds on the back of an argument on the internet. If anything it forces them into seeking out evidence to back up their own views and ends up further entrenching them. Lived experiences tend to be what makes people change their mind.
I’ve said I’m not in favour of Qatar, going beyond that feels like a waste of my time and everybody else’s.
Tell me about it. Good thing an LGBTQ owners hasn’t bid.
I don't want Western states to own Manchester United either, even if Biden promises more money to buy Mbappe, so no to this whataboutism actually.
Why on Earth would they do that? Have they ever imposed their religious customs onto PSG fans? They want to buy a football club and are very clear about their vision.
They have supported lgbtq campaigns at PSG, had no issues there and invested in the women's team. That not evidence enough?
They asked people to respect their culture and laws in Qatar and they will do the same here.
Just like they do with the shard, canary wharf and the billions worth of other organisations they own in the UK.
I respect and admire your belief in a nations morals and values that put women beneath the man to the point where she needs permission from a male guardian to study, work or travel. We should all aspire to do the same.
This is a good point, because it's very unlikely Jim can actually meet their asking price. Only the first round and he's already been priced out.
Its no whataboutism at all. Since the emir of Qatar is not bidding…
Like I said, you can repeat the spurious distinction all you like but ethically a member of the royal family who currently works for a state funded bank, whose liquidity is dependent on the SWF who he is accepting a £5bn gift from to buy the club, a fund his father used to manage directly in his role as PM being beholden to the state is no different from the state holding the club directly. Everyone can see it's simply a method of getting around ownership rules.Your reply also makes no sense if you deny the premise that it is an exercise in soft power.
Someone can respect another nations morals and values and disagree with some aspects. Just like they can also disagree with some aspects of British laws and values or US laws and values.
With all due respect, this is playing on technicalities to swallow an argument. No one actually belives that the Emir of Qatar is not personally involved here.
Your reply also makes no sense if you deny the premise that it is an exercise in soft power.
I didnt deny an exercise in soft power. I said hinted Im not opposed to it due to the current imbalance in world power.
They should make a public statement about it as a part of their bid given that its a prominent source of concern among many fans. It would give their bid far more legitimacy if they did.
How exactly does one respect a law which imprisons family members for their sexuality?
You can disagree with and respect a nations speed limit on motorways, you can't disagree with and respect something as fundamental as the right not to be imprisoned for your sexuality.
Don’t speak for everyone
As a principle in life, the one that does not seek to undermine someones pursuit of liberty and a free life that does not harm anyone else is probably on the right side of things. But this is getting off topic.
Is that what I said?
How do you respect a law that denys a women an abortion. Or how do you respect outcomes in policies that are racially disproportionate?
What I said was you can respect their morals and views and still disagree with some. Unless you are saying all their morals and laws are bad?
Then by definition it's state ownership in any meaningful way, which makes the point whataboutism.
Yes.
"Someone can respect another nations morals and values and disagree with some aspects. Just like they can also disagree with some aspects of British laws and values or US laws and values."
Word for word. You can't disagree with persecuting homosexuality and also respect laws which allow it.
Not word for word then
You can respect a nations values and disagree with some of their laws or some aspects of it. Unless you’re telling me you fully believe in all laws and values in the west.
These are the views that frustrate me the most. If you say I don't care who owns the club, only what happens on the pitch, then fair enough. But to try and argue 'individuals' connected to the Qatar state trying to buy United isn't political or a sportwashing project, you are just being blindly stubborn.
Something smells ,and the fecking Glazers won't sell instead get an investor in leaving the club in more debt. I fecking hope they just sell and bugger off, this seems a long way off with the price there holding out for apparently. Has ETH by doing a excellent 8mths changed there minds.
Why should they have to defend themselves against a view of them that's been created by western media?
They have business dealings all over the west and it has never been an issue. The evidence speaks for itself for anyone that hasn't brought into the propaganda.
They just seamlessly hosted a world Cup, with the greatest scrutiny ever and still people aren't satisfied.
Guess you can't beat ingrained bias.
Because the west said so.
They should have to though in my opinion. But so should everyone.
Somewhere out there people are writing similar sentences to you in regards to a male wanting to be referred to as a female.
There is no right or work in the view of the world. How you feel about certain laws and beliefs I respect yet might not agree, or maybe I do. But for the love of he/she… what does this have to do with Manchester United the football club.
Yes, word for word..
That's under the faulty assumption that I respect the laws of most western countries. You cannot respect something which contains things fundamentally opposite to your beliefs on what constitutes right and wrong.
This is a strawman argument.
I don’t know why there’s this belief that local fans are somehow more likely to be against Al Thani’s bid. Anecdotal of course, but as a local fan I can guarantee you the poll reflects the sentiment around here. I also posted a video in the other thread from match going fans and the trend is the same.
The whole local fans thing is a weird talking point that seems to be rooted in comical notion that local fans are somehow “better” than other fans.
So is yours. I was just throwing your own argument at you in a different way.
What about the Americans shouldn’t they in the poll
So you don’t respect the moral and laws of any country then… cool.
Again though not word for word as I wasn’t talking about YOU as an individual was I
You can respect the morals and laws of a nation and disagree with some. Many people do so its possible. Maybe you don’t, you are special though after all. Or maybe its just that you lack whats called tolerance.
The new owner of United should be white, British, draped in a Union Jack and reflect all of Britain’s views as their laws, beliefs and culture are the only correct ones in the world. Just ignore all of their past atrocities, they’re just minor. God forbid those backward minded, non beer drinking, LGBTQ hating Muslamics take over.
Am I doing this right, Jim Ratcliffe fans? [/s]
Am I doing this right, Jim Ratcliffe fans? [/s]
Anyone else seen INEOS received 1.9bln of investment off the Saudis in September 2022? Wonder what they’ll invest that in
Neither was I for goodness sake, you're not that literal.
And my point is you can respect some morals and laws of a nation, but you cannot respect them as a whole when some of them are fundamentally contradictory to your own. And the entire point falls apart when you acknowledge that.
Why would they be doing this? Because you think @Tom Cato holds transphobic views or you think he doesn't but that people would be right to make a judgement on him for not being transphobic?
This is nuts. So you want a whole country to change its laws and culture for your comfort. This is actually the definition of not respecting people with differing opinions. Qatar has not segregated against lgbt fans in psg...but somehow you think they will ban lgbt fans in the UK. You have got a crazy imagination. Now, you want them to release a statement to asuage your own crazy thoughts. They have supported womens teams and lgbt fans in paris and all their other bussinesses but somehow you think they will choose to draw the line with manutd. You dont need a statement from them, you need to go do your research on them.
It is not right to use football to push an agenda on a nation. Qatar nationals have a right to self determine what they do and dont permit in Qatar, whether or not you agree with it. You can express your displeasure but to demand they make changes for you is actually dictatorship at its highest level. Furthermore, Owning manutd is a completely separate thing that has nothing to do with that
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No one said anything about accepting anything as a whole. So again not word for word. You cannot impose what you wanted my words to mean over what the text actually stated and its intentions. Again though as someone who doesn’t tolerate views opposed to your own, its not a surprise that is a hard concept for you to grasp.
All the word about SJR is depressing. Hopefully we find the last couple people on earth who have anything good to say and aren't his family members. Jeez