But pressing and workrate is his thing. High line or low block his core principles remain the same. He doesn’t revert to packing men deep and hitting long balls. What is EtH philosophy?
Should Ten Hag get the sack if he fails to qualify for the CL?
- Thread starter Idxomer
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Poll courtesy of Joel and Avram Glazer.
Good to see some sense on here. People are too quick to forget the mess of a team that Ten Hag took over, I'll be gutted if we drop out the top 4 but I'm not blaming the manager. We all know the squad isn't good enough and he was never going to fix all the problems in 1 yearThis has to be the ultimate knee jerk thread
People really should stop and have a think for a second "Should I post this" before hitting post.
No, ETH should definitely not be sacked. Hasn't even entered my mind. The cup runs, amount of games, loss of form and injuries have started to conspire against him when it matters most. Good timing to have a free week to get the players mentally and physically refreshed before the final games.
I think ETH has proved he's not that great after all. Constantly playing Weghorst, and Martial when he's fit, not giving Pellestri any chance, not bringing up any other attacking talents from the academy... he is a stuck record.
He did well on the post-Ronaldo bounce. That has now worn off. Ever since winning the league cup the team has been on holiday. He doesn't have a plan B when things go badly. Well, his plan B is Weghorst... says it all really.
He did well on the post-Ronaldo bounce. That has now worn off. Ever since winning the league cup the team has been on holiday. He doesn't have a plan B when things go badly. Well, his plan B is Weghorst... says it all really.
Could care less if he didn't win one trophy because unlike you, I am able to put things into context. We have had two so called "serial winners" manage the club and leave the squad worse than they met it. A manager's trophy track record has absolutely nothing to do with building great teams. Speak to Tuchel and Di Matteo.How is 2017-2018 a title contending season when City won the league by 19 points and Spurs weren't even 2nd
You can't be serious trying to say that was a title contending season.
If Pochettino was a winning manager, they would have won the league title in 2015-2016 vs Leicester. They had title contending teams and only challenged for the title once. And it ended with their disastrous meltdown vs Chelsea at the Bridge.
But why anyone would want Pochettino after his PSG is beyond me. He had the greatest player since Maradona and he had his worst club season ever under his watch. Even Neymar significantly declined in Pochettino's final season at PSG. Then he couldn't win the Ligue 1 title in his 1st season and had meltdowns in the champions league in consecutive seasons.
He's not a winner.
Of the managers out there, Pochettino along with Enrique are the best available and BOTH are better managers than Ten Hag. Particularly tactically.
There isn't a manager out there that doesn't use pressing or workrate, it's like saying that marking and sprinting are a manager's thing. Klopp doesn't have a singular philosophy which is true for the vast majority of managers including ETH, now they may have tendencies in particular situations, one of them for Klopp could be the heavy use of gegenpress when he was in germany or an emphasis on possession since 2016.
Tendencies that ETH have had for a few years are for example using fullbacks narrower than usual and even having them run inside channels, the use of a mid defensive block, he likes his strikers to actively participate in the building phase and not just wait around the box unlike for example LVG or starting attacking movements on the ground with the CBs.
You have the judge the season on it's merits. It could not have been easier to come 4th. Spurs, Chelsea and to an extent Liverpool have been poor. We were in a brilliant position and have blown it recently with bad tactics, awful substitutions and a clear lack of work rate, as well as individual errors.
? Last I checked we are still a point clear with a game in hand. We haven't blown it yet. What can Ten Hag do about individual errors etc? We have gone to Brighton and West Ham and honestly been a bit unlucky to lose. If our players put their chances away first half in both games we go on to win. There is nothing he can do about that until the summer, and our makeshift defence is shit. If he doesn't replace certain players in the summer we should riot of course but let's be real here the position we got to in EVERY SINGLE CUP competition is acceptable at least, and the league isn't dead yet either, although I'm not confident anymore personally, if we don't make it our players don't deserve it, it's that simple.
Ten Hag has done way more than enough to earn another season, and the loan signings of Sabitzer and Weghorst shouldn't be used against him, that's the level of Glazers ambition honestly.
I agree with much of your post, but do you genuinely believe that the fact he used all of his transfer chest in summer, leaving nothing for the winter, can’t be used against him? Even me on Football Manager don’t get mad at my owners if I spend all the money and then realize it could’ve been used better.
That's true, we overspent and I guess we get to judge Ten Hag for that, but I deliberately don't make a decision on a player until they are in their second season at least. Antony has shown more than Sancho already (but less than Garnacho!).
I'd personally rather see youth players than Sabitzer/Weghorst at this point, I guess that was something van Gaal and Solskjaer deserved a LOT more praise for than they got, maintaining competitiveness while blooding youth players in their first senior matches was seriously brave.
This post and your prior one about the midfield are what I’ve been saying all season.
The reason I choose not to subscribe to the lack of quality argument because the type of quality players that are being referenced are your superstar types but they don’t necessarily make for a great team. We need to build a fully functioning team and to achieve that we will need to sign some solid journey men that just fit how he wants to play.
I’ve always enjoyed football played to the team and not the individuals, whilst this season we have been leaning more to the individuals at a time our main focus should be about getting our base right. He really needs that LVG arrogance and ignore voices of misdirection plaguing the transfer discourse from fans/pundits.
He won a trophy. That's enough for me to say no, by itself. We haven't exactly been tripping over trophies over the last 10 years or so, so I'm not altogether keen to sack a bloke that secured one after a single season. It isn't a permanent shield for him, but it's some credit in the bank within the overall context of an extremely long season where certain parts of the squad have been inadequate.
He does have some questions to answer, of course he does. Some of his decisions have been strange of late, and he hasn't found a way to arrest the progression of our abysmal away form. The signing of Antony is a problem for him at the moment because it seems to be such a colossal waste of precious funds and it's not hard to imagine that had that 80 million been put to better use on a keeper or a striker, we probably wouldn't be scrambling for the top 4.
He does have some questions to answer, of course he does. Some of his decisions have been strange of late, and he hasn't found a way to arrest the progression of our abysmal away form. The signing of Antony is a problem for him at the moment because it seems to be such a colossal waste of precious funds and it's not hard to imagine that had that 80 million been put to better use on a keeper or a striker, we probably wouldn't be scrambling for the top 4.
All 144 who would sack ETH if not making the Champions league should feck off and go support Citeh.
The answer is no. Every manager needs time. Lets say he miss top four. He still won a cup (maybe two). I don't think that is to bad first season.
No surprises in that 144 though. You see them posting shite in all threads every week, not just eth related ones.
I’d imagine most are children/teens with little to no experience/knowledge. That’s how it seems with nearly all of their content.
Couldn’t value their opinion any less if I tried.
You need to have very very solid plan A to win the league or perform consistently in the league. We can think about adapting later.
Yes every team uses pressing and demand work rate from players. But when you say Klopp, the first thing people think of is pressing. His teams do it way more than other teams. That is one thing he demands of every player in his team. In premier league of course he seeks more possession or rather he gets to have more possession as most premier league team park the bus or don’t necessarily take risks. He cannot counter press teams that don’t press or seek possession in the first place, hence more possession here. But the point is pressing is his main thing.
So full backs and striker are important positions in his teams and he didn’t figure out that those positions are extremely weak in our squad. Why didn’t he make any attempts to sign players for those positions? I don’t see our fullbacks even attempting to do any of the things you mention. They are playing like generic fullbacks who overlap and provide width. We don’t have a good striker I agree but not starting Martial yesterday was a crime. WHU always park the bus and we played with 10 men yesterday with Weghotsy on on the pitch. He is good for running around and there was no need of running around against a team who don’t like having the ball.
And all three of them would also fail here with the lack of upstairs support. Until we sort that out, any manager is doomed to fail and the cycle will never end.
You are confusing high press and pressing, high press is just an indication of the area of the first trigger. Everyone presses, pressing is part of every single teams regardless of the height of your defensive line or how adventurous a manager is. Now teams and managers have different tendencies and triggers. Some use a high press from attackers with a mid to low block repositioning of the defense, some use a high press and high block that's your Zeman, Guardiola or Bielsa, some use a 3 seconds rule others a 6 seconds rule. Most teams will trigger their pressing in the middle third and each player will have marking and pressing rules to follow.
So you didn't notice the thing that people mentioned a lot about Dalot and Malacia playing towards midfield? And no manager will have every positions or role sorted his year, not only because money is an issue for everyone but managers also need to see what they have and how they can work with the current players at their disposal. We focused on positions that were low in quality and numbers.
I don't think he should be sacked, but people said the exact same thing as you during Moyes time here and Ole's and both eventually had to be sacked anyway, but only after doing a decent bit of damage. Tbf they couldn't really sack moyes quicker than they did, but anyone who questioned the appointment or suggested that he shouldn't last the season was met by a barrage of top reds who smugly posted
"Your job now is to stand by our new manager"
We seem to have this weird thing that every manager should be given at least 500m to spend and 3 years to prove themselves otherwise its knee jetk
I sounded the alarm as early as January 2023. I was called a opposition fan.
Since that Arsenal game major doubts did start to creep in my mind.
Up until ETH changes the team set-up we won't go anywhere. Even Arteta changed the arsenal set-up to 433. Saka was a wingback no long ago.
ETH has to change the set-up completely. Anything else will just be purple patch. If ETH refuses to change to 3 man midfield he will be sacked next season. You can't be consistent in premier league with 2 man midfield, more so a sloppy midfield. If UpTo now he hasn't detected to that then he's not a very good coach.
We can blame players everyday, new scapegoats will come but it's the coach duty to field a dominant, stable, team.
Do I want him to be sacked, no. My judgement of him will be if he signs 2 quality midfielders in July. If not, I will be 100% sure he won't last long here.
Get Sean Dyche in right now
There's plenty he can do to change things.
A different formation would be nice, no point changing players every week then going out and playing the same predictable game.
I guarantee every opposing manner knows exactly what we are going to and is ready for it every single game.
Our set pieces are ok pathetic forget that they are worse than pathetic.
I genuinely feel we are the worst team in the country at corners and free kicks.
You can't tell me that's not on Erik as there's no sign we are doing
A different formation would be nice, no point changing players every week then going out and playing the same predictable game.
I guarantee every opposing manner knows exactly what we are going to and is ready for it every single game.
Our set pieces are ok pathetic forget that they are worse than pathetic.
I genuinely feel we are the worst team in the country at corners and free kicks.
You can't tell me that's not on Erik as there's no sign we are doing
He is also in the final of another one, that shouldn't go overlooked, though man city will of course be HEAVY favourites.
I just read we've played more games than any other top flight team in Europe. That allied with the mid season world cup where all our best players played is another mitigating factor in our stalling season.
Said Fergie and Pep ... never
Exactly.
People elevating Top4 above trophies has really turned me off the discourse. People want to qualify for a competition their team have no fecking chance of winning. Get Top4, go out to Europa then flip Europa to get Top4 - repeat.
I really like the man. As a manager the jury is still out for me. Barcelona home and away is why I would probably keep him but even then it’s tough if we don’t get CL.
I don’t put much if any weight on the easy Carabou Cup route earlier in the season. We are a big club so we should always pick up the odd minor trophy here and there with a little luck.
How we perform against City in the final will he his ultimate judgement.
We get pumped 4-0 I’d probably change manager after failing to get top 4. That would not be acceptable after also getting destroyed by liverpool 7-0 in a season. You just can’t do that at Man United sadly.
I think he will stay no matter what in reality. Ownership change and manager change is extreme in a single summer.
I’ve wanted United to play dominant high success rate football for years since Barcelona destroyed us in 2009, that was the future. I’ve still never seen it despite us getting taught a lesson years ago we never learn.
Last edited:
Fergie is arguably the best manager ever and he struggled a tiny bit with top 4 during his first years at United, so I believe that he would have the humility to not only recognize that he wasn't always the best but also that he had to work several years to reach that level. Guardiola has never picked a team that wasn't in the top 4 without him, so his opinion on the matter is worthless.
Lots of negativity in this thread by the vocal 13% .
It's encouraging that only 13% of the cafe are brain dead imbeciles. Big improvement from the sell Rashford thread.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
I dont see anyone else doing better with the players available so its an easy choice. Hes rock bottom of the list of things we need to address.
I don’t know why you are being pedantic for the sake of it. There can be many different types of pressing, Klopp can use different types of pressing and may not use some as well. But pressing is one of things his teams do all the time. He is dogged about it.
dalot, malacia may do it once of twice but throughout this season majority of times our full backs have acted conventionally. From the first match Guardiola or Klopp coached their teams, it’s apparent what they are trying to do. But it’s not been the case with EtH. That is my only concern.
He is still the best manager we can get. He needs to be able to trim the squad. We have about 10 players on our books that will be useless to him next season. If he’s allowed to clean up the squad and get another 3/4 players in then we will see. I always feel like we should be beating these smaller teams we struggle against but there is a really soft underbelly in this squad when you take away the likes of Casemiro, Varane and Martinez. They always fold and always will. Any decent manager would still need quite a lot of time to correct the years of mistakes we as a club have made under the glazers. We can’t just go out and sell these guys and reinvest in the squad as we’ve seen summer after summer
I don't know if I'm being pedantic, in order to justify your rating of someone and whether they should be sacked you made a point that makes no sense and seemingly will stick with it no matter how senseless it is. Pressing is one thing that all teams do all the time.
To illustrate my point: https://theanalyst.com/eu/2022/10/premier-league-stats-2022-23/
Liverpool 10.9
Arsenal 11.1
Manchester City 11.4
Manchester United 12.5
These four teams areone after the other, they are in the PL top 8 of pressing teams, the 4 teams above them are Chelsea, Brighton, Newcastle and Leeds. But the key point is that when it comes to pressure even though these four teams use different instructions they are all in the same ballpark when it comes to "pressing". In the end United are 4th when it comes pressures that lead to shots and bottom third when it comes to pressures that lead to goal just next to Liverpool and Chelsea.
Been debating it my head the last day and after watching Dyche ball beat Brighton 5-1, I think if we miss top 4 he should be gone. I really thought we'd beat West Ham so it wasn't really in my mind but we hadn't lost to Moyes' West Ham in the league. I get that had players finished their chances and DDG doesn't have howler it would have been a W. But the away form is just too alarming, I had hope it was just playing top sides away is hard and the squad still needing reinforcements and thought us being unbeaten against the bottom 11 was proof but then we lost to West Ham and i'm almost sure we won't beat Bournemouth. Which means we need to get all 9 points in our last 3 home fixtures and I'm just having a hard time seeing it. Wolves could absolutely come in and play their low block, park the bus style and take a point. Could see Chelsea being a draw because the fixture seems to always be and then you got Fulham who have had that circled since the FA Cup match.
I’ll drive the bus
Having higher standards for a start.
The reason why we are in this mess is because we always prolong the inevitable when it comes to sacking managers.
The bar has been lowered so much over the years since fergie left and its getting lower and lower.
So heres how what I would do.
If he would get sacked at real Madrid then he should be sacked with us.
Can’t remember timelines but didn’t he have greenwood and ronaldo when he spent that warchest ?.
It’s obvious extra funds needed to be made available.
What we also need is someone above the manager, not necessarily director of football, but with that kind of role so that team building is something that is done without one specific manager, because what we're having is hundreds of millions spent, then the next manager not rating those players, and having to replace them to play their brand of football. Madrid's recruitment seems to be done by perez and others above the manager and its why managers don't need to be given 3 years to be assessed so they can build their own team