Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

[Roane]

Whole neighborhood of Jalabia been razed by 6 bombs. Each bomb 1 tonne

Huge massacre according to head of Indonesian hospital. Bodies piling up outside the hospital

 

[Kaos]

No.

Anyone with half a brain and any understanding of conflicts like this in the past will know that for every member of Hamas they kill they're probably killing 10-20 civilians. And those civilians have family members, many of which will want revenge and join Hamas.

I can't for one second imagine that the Israelis aren't aware of this, so the only theory I have is they are ok with Hamas coming back as they need a boogeyman to justify the way they treat Palestinians and steal their land.

Hamas claim that 85% of their combat units are composed of orphans. Is that figure BS? Probably. But it doesn't surprise me to see kids being easily shepherded into Hamas' arms considering everything they've lost and the hatred that's been allowed to cultivate inside of them after the horrors they've experienced.

 

[calodo2003]

 

[Mike Smalling]

More misfiring Hamas rockets no doubt.

 

[Kaos]

More misfiring Hamas rockets no doubt.

Yep. The munitions detectives will start the same thorough examination of the blast with the same level of scrutiny they've afforded similar explosions in Ukraine.

That or the usual caveat of how the IDF courteously warned the desperate people of Gaza they were about to bomb a refugee camp, so they should really consider beelining it into the Sinai desert, after which they'd definitely be allowed back in once this has all blown over (quite literally).

 

[stevoc]

Hamas claim that 85% of their combat units are composed of orphans. Is that figure BS? Probably. But it doesn't surprise me to see kids being easily shepherded into Hamas' arms considering everything they've lost and the hatred that's been allowed to cultivate inside of them after the horrors they've experienced.

Absolutely, I'm from Northern Ireland and I know from personal experience that the various atrocities that the British Army carried out here in the 70's (where they murdered Men, Women and Children) with the mindset that they would 'Break' people. Achieved nothing more than acting as a mass recruitment drive for Republican Paramilitary groups.

 

[Roane]

Hamas claim that 85% of their combat units are composed of orphans. Is that figure BS? Probably. But it doesn't surprise me to see kids being easily shepherded into Hamas' arms considering everything they've lost and the hatred that's been allowed to cultivate inside of them after the horrors they've experienced.

Some of the early reports from people at the music festival did say the attackers looked like 16/17 year olds

It was in one of the paper reports after the event.

I'm just thinking about that journalist whose family was targetted

 

[calodo2003]

 

[That_Bloke]

It’s pretty standard for Israeli Jews to refer to Palestinians as “the Arabs” and for Palestinians to refer to Israelis as “the Jews”. Been that way since the beginning of all this I guess, before “Palestinian” and “Israeli” came to signify what they do today.

I stand corrected then. Thank you.

Is the rest of my post off the mark as well? Genuine question.

 

[space]

Ahh another warcrime by the state of war crimes -how long till the genocide apologists come out to disprove this one?

 

[Raoul]

 

[Amir]

Yes, and to be clear I am sure that his views is not representative of you or the civilian population of Israel. He is though talking in line with the actions of fanatics in the Likud who are actually in power and making decisions now. And that is scary.

The fanatics are not the ones making decisions regarding the war in Gaza.

 

[Kaos]

The fanatics are not the ones making decisions regarding the war in Gaza.

Would you not define Netanyahu and Likud as fanatics? Granted they might not be as insane as some of the basket cases quoted in this thread, but I was under the impression they are very much unhinged, or at least their supporters are.

 

[Amir]

Would you not define Netanyahu and Likud as fanatics? Granted they might not be as insane as some of the basket cases quoted in this thread, but I was under the impression they are very much unhinged, or at least their supporters are.

The Likud has some truly bad and idiotic MPs and ministers, but when it comes down to it, they are not calling the shots, especially when it comes to security.

Netanyahu? He has his own issues. I think he's completely lost between the web of different interests - his family, his trial, his coalition, his future - and that's what makes him a huge problem for Israel. But being fanatic is not the problem.

The war is being led by levelheaded people.

 

[4bars]

Orient is no longer used either and has been replaced by "Asian" in the US at least. Oriental is now relegated to being a discriminatory term.

In US. like in europe black face was not derrogatory till US decided that it should be also in europe. Not everything is offensive for everyone

 

[maniak]

what exacty is Israel's plan? They cannot take Gaza City or the refugee camps without mass casualties.

Yes, that's it.

 

[Roane]

I know it makes a few people on here uncomfortable but the plan seems to be ethnic cleansing

 

[flameinthesun]

I know it makes a few people on here uncomfortable but the plan seems to be ethnic cleansing

Its pretty clear that that is what is happening. If they truly cared for the civilians of Gaza they wouldn't have already killed them by the thousands. The fact that so many in their country support them doing war crimes, especially based on their histroy in relation to ethnic cleansing, makes this even more sick. There is no self defence in what they are doing. The funny thing is, as inhumane as Hamas's attack was, Israel has managed to somehow surpass them in barbarity by the sheer numbers that they have killed. Despite knowing that majority of people that they are killing are women and children.

But this is not a surprise as their support and encouragement of terrorists aka settlers has already shown their true colours.

 

[Roane]

Its pretty clear that that is what is happening. If they truly cared for the civilians of Gaza they wouldn't have already killed them by the thousands. The fact that so many in their country support them doing war crimes, especially based on their histroy in relation to ethnic cleansing, makes this even more sick. There is no self defence in what they are doing. The funny thing is, as inhumane as Hamas's attack was, Israel has managed to somehow surpass them in barbarity by the sheer numbers that they have killed. Despite knowing that majority of people that they are killing are women and children.

But this is not a surprise as their support and encouragement of terrorists aka settlers has already shown their true colours.

Not been confirmed by me but there is a tweet said to be from the IDF Arabic page which basically says due to lack of medical equipment etc it was decided to bomb the Baptist hospital and give them euthanasia death

 

[Mike Smalling]

I know it makes a few people on here uncomfortable but the plan seems to be ethnic cleansing

A comment like that is likely to summon the thread police. You will be accused of using rhetoric that is leading to antisemitic violence in just a minute.

 

[Rooney24]

Who compares it?
I write the conditions are not that far away from how they started in Germany. In the beginning, there were paintings of Stars of David on house walls and businesses, Jews were not allowed to go into certain areas and a big public campaign to dehumanize Jews that lead into everything we know. I don't say that the follow up will be the same, nor is it the same scale of course, but you can't deny the similarities in the beginnings.
And I also don't think the Israeli delegation wanted to compare, but open peoples eyes to what's happening now through a shock, provocation, disgraceful display, however you want to call it.

You mean how Palestinians have to live under Israeli occupation?

You must be appalled

 

[nickm]

I don't think it is right to use WW attacks for comparison. The world has moved on since then and today invading nations are expected to fight in a certain way, rather than bomb the hell out of cities and kill large swathes of civilian population, just because they have the weapons to do that.

I'm not sure it is as clear cut as that. Genocide was a term created to define a (kind of) WW2 attack and the bombing of Dresden was called mass murder by the Nazis at the time, was certainly a terrorising tactic by the British and has been controversial in the West since the 50s. But not as genocide. And yes, precision weapons can be used to reduce civilian casualties... But when your enemy is closely intertwined with the civilian population there are no such things as precision weapons, sadly. (Even hospitals can become legitimate targets under international law, under some circumstances - although I don't know if those apply here). These distinctions make no difference to the dead of course.

 

[Ekkie Thump]

 

[WeePat]

 

[WeePat]

It's proper surreal looking at that image. Looks a apocalyptic scene in a Hollywood film. It's scary to think Israel can just keep inflicting this kind of staggering destruction with impunity and then still claim they're just getting started. Do we have any idea of the casualties from this latest war crime?

 

[Rooney24]

It's proper surreal looking at that image. Looks a apocalyptic scene in a Hollywood film. It's scary to think Israel can just keep inflicting this kind of staggering destruction with impunity and then still claim they're just getting started. Do we have any idea of the casualties from this latest war crime?

Its basically a land clearing exercise at this point

 

[Ekkie Thump]

It's proper surreal looking at that image. Looks a apocalyptic scene in a Hollywood film. It's scary to think Israel can just keep inflicting this kind of staggering destruction with impunity and then still claim they're just getting started. Do we have any idea of the casualties from this latest war crime?

I think the French Press Agency (AFP) counted "at least" 47 dead bodies being pulled from the rubble just by looking at footage. So...probably a lot more than that. Like, there's videos doing the round of a desperate dad that can't find his 3 kids. Others running around desperately calling out names of loved ones. There must be so many more missing.

 

[Moby]

One of the issues is "the West" isn't an actual thing. Its an invented construct used primarily by non-Europeans to refer to Europe and the US or NATO. Each country therein has different geopolitical priorities when it comes to nations in the middle east, which obviously includes Israel.

We can just replace it with US then given they are the only one whose word matters especially in military conflicts.

 

[Ekkie Thump]

 

[Amir]

Its pretty clear that that is what is happening. If they truly cared for the civilians of Gaza they wouldn't have already killed them by the thousands. The fact that so many in their country support them doing war crimes, especially based on their histroy in relation to ethnic cleansing, makes this even more sick. There is no self defence in what they are doing. The funny thing is, as inhumane as Hamas's attack was, Israel has managed to somehow surpass them in barbarity by the sheer numbers that they have killed. Despite knowing that majority of people that they are killing are women and children.

But this is not a surprise as their support and encouragement of terrorists aka settlers has already shown their true colours.

While I understand you, I think you should look at it from the Israelis point of view.

1,400 people are dead. Others are abducted, missing or injured. A large number of people have been evacuated from the south or north and are living elsewhere, without anyone knowing how long it would take. Communities have been destroyed. People have lost their homes and everything in it, and are left with nothing. Survivors, including children, saw their loved one being executed. Rockets are fired daily. People are scared to leave their homes. Lives have been massively interrupted, with different ramifications on people's abilities to earn a living.

The country, as a whole, is still in shock and mourning. And the idea we'll ever be able to just go on knowing Hamas is on the other side of the border, after what we've seen its capable of, is unthinkable. It's too scary.

So yeah, under those circumstances, people don't particularly care about the civilians of Gaza and especially aren't going to scold the IDF for its methods. It's unfortunate, but I think it's also understandable. We're only human.

 

[WeePat]

While I understand you, I think you should look at it from the Israelis point of view.

1,400 people are dead. Others are abducted, missing or injured. A large number of people have been evacuated from the south or north and are living elsewhere, without anyone knowing how long it would take. Communities have been destroyed. People have lost their homes and everything in it, and are left with nothing. Survivors, including children, saw their loved one being executed. Rockets are fired daily. People are scared to leave their homes. Lives have been massively interrupted, with different ramifications on people's abilities to earn a living.

The country, as a whole, is still in shock and mourning. And the idea we'll ever be able to just go on knowing Hamas is on the other side of the border, after what we've seen its capable of, is unthinkable. It's too scary.

So yeah, under those circumstances, people don't particularly care about the civilians of Gaza and especially aren't going to scold the IDF for its methods. It's unfortunate, but I think it's also understandable. We're only human.

Did Israeli society care about the occupation and the suffering of Gazans prior to Oct 7?

 

[space]

May Palestine be free

 

[Kaos]

While I understand you, I think you should look at it from the Israelis point of view.

1,400 people are dead. Others are abducted, missing or injured. A large number of people have been evacuated from the south or north and are living elsewhere, without anyone knowing how long it would take. Communities have been destroyed. People have lost their homes and everything in it, and are left with nothing. Survivors, including children, saw their loved one being executed. Rockets are fired daily. People are scared to leave their homes. Lives have been massively interrupted, with different ramifications on people's abilities to earn a living.

The country, as a whole, is still in shock and mourning. And the idea we'll ever be able to just go on knowing Hamas is on the other side of the border, after what we've seen its capable of, is unthinkable. It's too scary.

So yeah, under those circumstances, people don't particularly care about the civilians of Gaza and especially aren't going to scold the IDF for its methods. It's unfortunate, but I think it's also understandable. We're only human.

Not to be insensitive, but what you've described is also uncannily the perpetual reality of the Palestinians. Do you not think that status quo is what's led to this ticking time bomb finally exploding?

 

[Amir]

Did Israeli society care about the occupation and the suffering of Gazans prior to Oct 7?

Most people did not.

 

[That_Bloke]

Did Israeli society care about the occupation and the suffering of Gazans prior to Oct 7?

Some truly did.

In which proportion I couldn't tell you, but the poster you replied to is one of them.

 

[flameinthesun]

While I understand you, I think you should look at it from the Israelis point of view.

1,400 people are dead. Others are abducted, missing or injured. A large number of people have been evacuated from the south or north and are living elsewhere, without anyone knowing how long it would take. Communities have been destroyed. People have lost their homes and everything in it, and are left with nothing. Survivors, including children, saw their loved one being executed. Rockets are fired daily. People are scared to leave their homes. Lives have been massively interrupted, with different ramifications on people's abilities to earn a living.

The country, as a whole, is still in shock and mourning. And the idea we'll ever be able to just go on knowing Hamas is on the other side of the border, after what we've seen its capable of, is unthinkable. It's too scary.

So yeah, under those circumstances, people don't particularly care about the civilians of Gaza and especially aren't going to scold the IDF for its methods. It's unfortunate, but I think it's also understandable. We're only human.

Appreciate the response.

However, that script can easily be flipped.

The Palestinian people have seen their land taken from them, innocent civilians killed, embaressed, stripped of homes and lands. Denied their humanity, stripped of their dignity and treated like they are sub-human, and this in just reference to before October 7th. They have seen loved ones killed mercilessly, women and children alike with their land shrinking and no country offering to help them or provide them a path to regain their dignity. In the past month they have seen thousands of women and children killed. So if the Israeli people dont care about the civilians of gaza based on your point, why should the Palestinians and the wider world care about what happens/happened to the Israeli civilians?

 

[Ekkie Thump]

While I understand you, I think you should look at it from the Israelis point of view.

1,400 people are dead. Others are abducted, missing or injured. A large number of people have been evacuated from the south or north and are living elsewhere, without anyone knowing how long it would take. Communities have been destroyed. People have lost their homes and everything in it, and are left with nothing. Survivors, including children, saw their loved one being executed. Rockets are fired daily. People are scared to leave their homes. Lives have been massively interrupted, with different ramifications on people's abilities to earn a living.

The country, as a whole, is still in shock and mourning. And the idea we'll ever be able to just go on knowing Hamas is on the other side of the border, after what we've seen its capable of, is unthinkable. It's too scary.

So yeah, under those circumstances, people don't particularly care about the civilians of Gaza and especially aren't going to scold the IDF for its methods. It's unfortunate, but I think it's also understandable. We're only human.

If I was to describe the deaths murders of 1,400 Israelis as a misfortune how would that make you feel do you think?

 

[Sweet Square]

 

[Amir]

Not to be insensitive, but what you've described is also uncannily the perpetual reality of the Palestinians. Do you not think that status quo is what's led to this ticking time bomb finally exploding?

Not really. Hamas is a terrorist group intent on killing Israelis. That wasn't and isn't going to change. As long as Hamas ruled Gaza, attacks on Israel were always going to happen. And Hamas wasn't going to lose control of Gaza without force.

Israel have made some allowances towards Gaza in the last couple of years, like letting an increasing number of people to cross the border to Israel so they could work and earn a decent living. It appears some have used that in order to learn the area and feed Hamas information.

Should Israel have made moves with the Palestenian authority? Yes, I believe so. But that would not have changed the reality with Hamas.

 

[Frosty]

IDF spokesperson confirms Israel carried out strike on Jabalia refugee camp

Israel Defense Forces (IDF) spokesperson Daniel Hagari is giving a televised news conference, where he said the Israeli military “managed to eliminate the terrorist murderer Ibrahim Biari” on Tuesday.

Biari was “the main leader of combat” since Israel forces entered northern Gaza, Hagari said. During his “elimination, many terrorists were killed,” he said.

He said the targeting of the building where Biari was in also “led to the collapse of other things because there was a very extensive infrastructure there”.