Unreal. To think she was a PM.
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Westminster Politics
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Unreal. To think she was a PM.
Who are you voting for?
Labour voter - Winning elections is the most important thing. Starmer needs to everything he can to get into power then change will happen.
The same Labour voter - The tories have fecked the country and used up all credit cards. Labour will only be able to do austerity in power.
The same Labour voter - The tories have fecked the country and used up all credit cards. Labour will only be able to do austerity in power.
Versus what?
“I’ll happily vote for a Party that has zero chance of gaining power in this political system, allow the Tories to potentially scrape through for another five years, and if they do I get to blame Labour!”
Is that about right?
You should vote for what you believe in, not against what you not believe in. The whole concept of representative democracy is to have someone who represents you.
Was dying for her to say “we don’t have a cow” after he’d taken a swig
Yeah, that's always about the size of it. Basically, give me utopia and unachievable manifesto pledges so I can feel warm and fuzzy.
Oh, they didn't get elected, well it's someone else's fault.
Why?
I mean, if you wait around for people who align to your ideals or who "represent you" (what a vague term) then you'll be waiting a long time.
Like, what politician would you say represents the opposite of you?
Because for me, it's the Tories, they're the ones who I disagree with the most and whom I despise.
So my representation is who ever can get this virus out of parliament.
I don't agree with Labour on a lot but they have the best shot. I can't take and the county can't take another five years of this cancer.
"Tommy Robinson... all these hero's."
This and now Jenrick claiming some abhorrent shit in parliament, it's action time. Get this fecking EDL mob out asap.
I hate to break it to you but there's absolutely no chance whatsoever the Tories get a majority. This election is a free hit - vote Labour, Lib Dem, Green, whatever your heart tells you. Worst case Labour have to go into a coalition and might have to do some grown up politics for once, building cross-party consensus between non-mentalists, wouldn't that be awful?
I'm starting to think this may be the case. It really seems like a lot of conservative voters are just going to stay home.
The Conservatives are, almost to a member, but particularly a Parliamentary member, both hopeless and utterly worthless. They've presided over 14 years of spectacular and divisive failure, they're fractured, they're corrupt, they're washed. Everything they have said over their reign of terror gets proven to be untrue to a greater extent every day. Starmer or the Lib Dems will win the votes of the majority of "small c" Conservatives that actually bother to vote.
If you actually want change you can vote for literally whoever that is. Worst case you will help that party earn some more money as long as they get the minimum number of votes to qualify for state funding. If they get enough votes it will send a message to the eventual ruling party, and in the best case they might even get enough votes to form a coalition.
All the hand wringing needs to stop and you need to have the balls to vote for whoever best represents you, as we should have the luxury of doing at every election but frankly don't. Take this rare opportunity you've been given.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ss-and-lee-anderson-to-lose-conservative-whip
Seems strange that this news is still not anywhere on the BBC site.
Seems strange that this news is still not anywhere on the BBC site.
Why do posters keep acting like those who are worried about what Starmer says and does are essentially bolsheviks who want hardcore communism? Hard left this and hard left that. Utopia? What are you banging on about? The guy hasn't got a socialist bone in his body, so why would people who value fairness vote for a guy who has his track record?
If he was in charge of the Libdems and they were on the verge of a huge majority, I doubt any of us Leninist-Stalinist-Trots would give two shits. But he's in charge of the main socialist party and he's just going to be a better Tory than the Tories. That's it. He's already bent the knee to Murdoch. He's an apartheid apologist. He's gutted the left of the party. He's lied, backtracked and u-turned like he was the second coming of Boris Johnson. He's got principles but, like the old joke goes, if you don't like them he has others. How can people think he's going to be any different from the tories when he's in favour of pretty much the same things, and his main criticism of them is that they haven't done what they said they would, but he will?
I think you're going to be very disappointed but I hope that it's me who is wrong. I really do.
If he was in charge of the Libdems and they were on the verge of a huge majority, I doubt any of us Leninist-Stalinist-Trots would give two shits. But he's in charge of the main socialist party and he's just going to be a better Tory than the Tories. That's it. He's already bent the knee to Murdoch. He's an apartheid apologist. He's gutted the left of the party. He's lied, backtracked and u-turned like he was the second coming of Boris Johnson. He's got principles but, like the old joke goes, if you don't like them he has others. How can people think he's going to be any different from the tories when he's in favour of pretty much the same things, and his main criticism of them is that they haven't done what they said they would, but he will?
I think you're going to be very disappointed but I hope that it's me who is wrong. I really do.
That would depend on who the coalition is with and what they demand wouldn't it?
When you look at the list of smaller parties and their probable demands it could be awful.
Labour and Reform.
Labour and SNP.
I'm not sure its worth it I'd rather have and clear Labour majority if I'm honest.
I understand that from the polling, but this complacency could mean a ridiculously low turnout which gives the Tories a chance.
And what’s the point of representative democracy if the one you vote for doesn’t get a seat at the table, never mind a majority?
You ‘should’ vote for the Party that (a) has a chance of winning power and (b) is closest aligned to your beliefs, then work on the next fight, then the next one.
Does anyone in the West actually understand what democracy even means and how it's supposed to work? I'm not sure anyone does, judging by the responses on this forum, including me.
I’d certainly hope so or my degree was worthless! I also understand that ideological / philosophical and practical / actual are polar opposites in 2024.
I’ve personally explained countless times where I sit philosophically, but I know that this country isn’t ready for that and so we need incremental change (rather than the economic revolution I’d personally like to see).
Democracy is two wolves and sheep deciding what's for dinner apparently
Grown up politics during a coalition?
Oxymoron. Like literally won't happen just have glacial inability to govern and factionalism wars.
The last coalition government was disappointing but it was far and away better than the governments that followed.
Yes but that's not saying anything, they achieved very very little and the Lib Dems were unable to water down Tory ideology. Very much window dressing, all it did was put Lib Dems back about forty years.
In reality it laid the ground for the subsequent governments rather than hindering them.
That is the whole idea of representative democracy. If I actively choose to vote for someone who goes out and say "Israel has the right to commit collective punishments" I am complicit in their crimes. Because I chose actively. You chose what you think is closer to your values. Otherwise, cancel all other parties and it will only become a farce of a democratic process just like the American one, a bipartisan BS.
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How are you complicit? Perhaps if you vote and the status quo support stays in, you're complicit too?
I don't agree it didn't achieve anything. The Lib Dems were dreadfully inept and naïve but actually their policy (that the Tories later claimed as their own) of raising the tax free threshold was very good for the economy and probably largely responsible for the trickle of growth that the Tories presided over. We're back to freezing tax free thresholds now and you can see the results. The Lib Dems being completely outmanoeuvred politically isn't proof that coalitions can't work.
Cue Tory party split.
only if braverman is sanctioned. seems like most of the tory Mps cant stand anderson. he is a northern oik after all.
Miniscule of a backbone from sajid. Who'd have thunk it.
Was fine when boris was spouting islamophobia though.
Was fine when boris was spouting islamophobia though.