Westminster Politics

decorativeed said:
But you're not thinking of the massive problems that can cause, when we usually have developments that concentrate soley on housing, so that local amenities and roads on the outskirts that are already at capacity get overwhelmed. And because of this, locals object to developments and nothing happens for years. And this is on top of the loss of green spaces and damage to the environment.

We have almost 300,000 empty houses in the UK. Let's start by bringing those back into usage.
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So, build the amenities as well. 300k houses is a small number, maybe 10 to 15x less than the number needed, and chances are many aren't even where people need to be. It is not a serious response to the scale of the problem

And yes, it may have environmental impacts, but we also have a lot of cities that could be considerably denser than they are now.

China built a bunch of new cities from scratch and the lib dems are celebrating building a new staircase at Surbiton station.

Towns and cities change.
 
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decorativeed said:
I'd say that bringing the existing care homes and similar facilities into public ownership and removing the profit from the chain would probably be sufficient as a first step.
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If you are going to solve the problem of care for the elderly then let's focus on that, that's big enough all by itself.

The solution to the housing crisis isn't going to be about stacking millions of 80 year olds in government run care homes, and flogging their houses to people who still won't be able to afford them.
 
Proposed water charges,


How much do companies want to increase their bills by?
  • Southern Water - 91% increase to £915 a year by 2030
  • Thames Water - 59% to £749
  • Hafren Dyfredwy - 56% to £676
  • Severn Trent - 50% to £657
  • Wessex Water - 50% to £822
  • Yorkshire Water - 46% to £682
  • Dŵr Cymru - 43% to £702
  • United Utilities - 38% to £666
  • South East Water - 35% £330
  • Pennon - 33% to £644
  • Portsmouth Water - 31% to £157
  • SES - 30% to £315
  • Anglian Water - 29% to £682
  • Northumbrian Water and Essex & Suffolk Water - 26% to £530
  • Affinity Water 25% to £294
  • South Staffs & Cambridge Water - 24% to £221
Source: Consumer Council for Water
Estimate are for average bills. Costs will vary depending on a property's rateable value



So like........ Southern Water - 91% increase to £915
South East Water - 35% £330

Dŵr Cymru - 43% to £702
Northumbrian Water and Essex & Suffolk Water - 26% to £530

Hard to know what to say.
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
Proposed water charges,


How much do companies want to increase their bills by?
  • Southern Water - 91% increase to £915 a year by 2030
  • Thames Water - 59% to £749
  • Hafren Dyfredwy - 56% to £676
  • Severn Trent - 50% to £657
  • Wessex Water - 50% to £822
  • Yorkshire Water - 46% to £682
  • Dŵr Cymru - 43% to £702
  • United Utilities - 38% to £666
  • South East Water - 35% £330
  • Pennon - 33% to £644
  • Portsmouth Water - 31% to £157
  • SES - 30% to £315
  • Anglian Water - 29% to £682
  • Northumbrian Water and Essex & Suffolk Water - 26% to £530
  • Affinity Water 25% to £294
  • South Staffs & Cambridge Water - 24% to £221
Source: Consumer Council for Water
Estimate are for average bills. Costs will vary depending on a property's rateable value



So like........ Southern Water - 91% increase to £915
South East Water - 35% £330

Dŵr Cymru - 43% to £702
Northumbrian Water and Essex & Suffolk Water - 26% to £530

Hard to know what to say.
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By all means let them, as long as they are prepared to commit to a 20 freeze on dividends. I wonder if their shareholders will agree with the price hikes then?
 
nickm said:
If you are going to solve the problem of care for the elderly then let's focus on that, that's big enough all by itself.

The solution to the housing crisis isn't going to be about stacking millions of 80 year olds in government run care homes, and flogging their houses to people who still won't be able to afford them.
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But why would people be able to magically afford new build homes that will be priced at market value?
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
Proposed water charges,


How much do companies want to increase their bills by?
  • Southern Water - 91% increase to £915 a year by 2030
  • Thames Water - 59% to £749
  • Hafren Dyfredwy - 56% to £676
  • Severn Trent - 50% to £657
  • Wessex Water - 50% to £822
  • Yorkshire Water - 46% to £682
  • Dŵr Cymru - 43% to £702
  • United Utilities - 38% to £666
  • South East Water - 35% £330
  • Pennon - 33% to £644
  • Portsmouth Water - 31% to £157
  • SES - 30% to £315
  • Anglian Water - 29% to £682
  • Northumbrian Water and Essex & Suffolk Water - 26% to £530
  • Affinity Water 25% to £294
  • South Staffs & Cambridge Water - 24% to £221
Source: Consumer Council for Water
Estimate are for average bills. Costs will vary depending on a property's rateable value



So like........ Southern Water - 91% increase to £915
South East Water - 35% £330

Dŵr Cymru - 43% to £702
Northumbrian Water and Essex & Suffolk Water - 26% to £530

Hard to know what to say.
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Are all these fecking bastards (all utility companies) trying to bankrupt us all?! I can barely afford to do anything anymore and I am certainly better at managing money than most.

It’s all taking the fecking piss and actually living these days is becoming so hard! Can’t even afford to holiday in the UK as that has become unaffordable.
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
Proposed water charges,


How much do companies want to increase their bills by?
  • Southern Water - 91% increase to £915 a year by 2030
  • Thames Water - 59% to £749
  • Hafren Dyfredwy - 56% to £676
  • Severn Trent - 50% to £657
  • Wessex Water - 50% to £822
  • Yorkshire Water - 46% to £682
  • Dŵr Cymru - 43% to £702
  • United Utilities - 38% to £666
  • South East Water - 35% £330
  • Pennon - 33% to £644
  • Portsmouth Water - 31% to £157
  • SES - 30% to £315
  • Anglian Water - 29% to £682
  • Northumbrian Water and Essex & Suffolk Water - 26% to £530
  • Affinity Water 25% to £294
  • South Staffs & Cambridge Water - 24% to £221
Source: Consumer Council for Water
Estimate are for average bills. Costs will vary depending on a property's rateable value



So like........ Southern Water - 91% increase to £915
South East Water - 35% £330

Dŵr Cymru - 43% to £702
Northumbrian Water and Essex & Suffolk Water - 26% to £530

Hard to know what to say.
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What's the alternative? Nationalised water? It wouldn't work, the water quality would be worse, the waste dumping just as bad, and the costs even higher thanks to public service waffling and the whole jobs for mates attitude those folk have.

Don't believe me? Just look at places where water is nationalised like Northern Ireland or Scotland, and look at how bad their services are... Oh, wait. They're not actually that bad... Well, in that case just look at how wasteful they are, and how their charges are going up this year by a mammoth... 4 to 8%......ah feck.

I'm off to drink some nationalised tap water. I bet it looks and tastes like shit.... Yum. Dammit again.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
What's the alternative? Nationalised water? It wouldn't work, the water quality would be worse, the waste dumping just as bad, and the costs even higher thanks to public service waffling and the whole jobs for mates attitude those folk have.

Don't believe me? Just look at places where water is nationalised like Northern Ireland or Scotland, and look at how bad their services are... Oh, wait. They're not actually that bad... Well, in that case just look at how wasteful they are, and how their charges are going up this year by a mammoth... 4 to 8%......ah feck.

I'm off to drink some nationalised tap water. I bet it looks and tastes like shit.... Yum. Dammit again.
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Had me in the first half ngl :devil:
 
Mr Pigeon said:
What's the alternative? Nationalised water? It wouldn't work, the water quality would be worse, the waste dumping just as bad, and the costs even higher thanks to public service waffling and the whole jobs for mates attitude those folk have.

Don't believe me? Just look at places where water is nationalised like Northern Ireland or Scotland, and look at how bad their services are... Oh, wait. They're not actually that bad... Well, in that case just look at how wasteful they are, and how their charges are going up this year by a mammoth... 4 to 8%......ah feck.

I'm off to drink some nationalised tap water. I bet it looks and tastes like shit.... Yum. Dammit again.
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Of course, Thats how you have the money in Scotland for this....


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ceqq04v75p9o


Its been a weird days news today.
 
Jericholyte2 said:
Not necessarily a taxing issue, it's more about the rise of Air BnB and similar.

Private landlords can make far more profit on their property listing it for short-term rentals through Air BnB than they could via the traditional rental market. So more 'stock' leaves the rental market to the short-term letting, meaning that demand increases, meaning an increase in rental rates.
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Not to mention in university towns turning houses into house shares or converting them into flats forces families out of city centres
 
So… The Tories have been in power for 5000 days.

In that time, they’ve added £300m to the National Debt. Per Day.

Anyone voting Tory is thick as feck.
 
Frosty said:
Or to put it another way, we have accrued twice as much debt in the last 14 years than we did in the previous 316.
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But you need to account for the ludicrous inflation rate in that time! (That they caused)
 
nickm said:
Because we build at such a level that prices begin to come down.
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Total pie in the sky stuff. Since 2010, about 2,000,000 new homes have been built in the UK. In the same period the average price has increased from £160k to £260k - over 60%. How many millions more will we have to build to get the prices to come down?
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Your math doesn’t math.

We already have more properties than people. It’s who owns it, which ones are filled and by whom that’s the problem.
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Thats the thing. After the 2008 debacle, I am not saying that this is happening to the UK, but in the US trust funds are investing in real state by the billions. You can't compete and they have a recurrent revenue at your expenses. That is why not only utilities should be nationalized but the housing.

It should not be a business because is a necessity.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Your math doesn’t math.

We already have more properties than people. It’s who owns it, which ones are filled and by whom that’s the problem.
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More properties than people? The latest statistics I could find was that there was 25m dwellings as of 2022, with a population of 67m.

https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...welling-stock-estimates-england-31-march-2022

The issue is as much as building the right type of homes, specifically social housing, as well as a scheme for building new homes.

It’s a simple supply and demand market, so the pricing will only start to decline once supply outstrips the demand.
 
i think once you start letting people own their own homes, they’ll soon want better lives for themselves and their children. that’s only going to come at shareholder expense. i bet none of you even thought about those poor shareholders.
 
rimaldo said:
i think once you start letting people own their own homes, they’ll soon want better lives for themselves and their children. that’s only going to come at shareholder expense. i bet none of you even thought about those poor shareholders.
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On top of this, I just heard a sickening statistic. The UK has only 55 billionaires compared to 813 in the US. This inequality shouldn't be allowed to stand.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
So… The Tories have been in power for 5000 days.

In that time, they’ve added £300m to the National Debt. Per Day.

Anyone voting Tory is thick as feck.
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This added to the ever increasing list of failures.
Like not enough prisons.
Like all the money that was going to be saved by scrapping HS2 will be used to fix all the pot holes.
I could go on but I just don't have enough time.
 
decorativeed said:
Yes, you're right with your first point, and I had considered the fact that landlords will most likely pass on any more modest tax on to the tenant. That's why we need a more radical solution. Rent controls/caps being a first step, perhaps.

I disagree with the second and think that there should be limits on how much housing an individual or company can stockpile.
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Everything you can think of has an unintended consequence.

Rent caps - landlords sell en masse, house prices crash and with it the economy, government has to step in.
More tax on landlords - just gets passed down to tenants.
Subsidies - cocks up just about everything it touches.
Controls on landlords - alienates higher risk tenants and forces them into the hands of unscrupulous landlords who don't follow the rules.


I think the two big fixes are an extreme tax on foreign property ownership and penalties for empty houses. Taxing only foreign ownership doesn't pass the cost on to tenants because most of the market doesn't have to bear it and empty houses/holiday lets are mostly outside what is meant by private rentals. But mostly not do what the government is always best at, pulling the ladder up. Penalise the people who have already done it not the ones still trying to do it.


UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Why are they? And to what end? How many private rented homes should there be?

I believe zero. I realise that’s unrealistic. But I also can’t see an argument for anyone having a portfolio of properties.

What circumstances can you outline to support a huge private rental market?

Asking in good faith.
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Unless the government builds a few million council houses (where, how are they paid for, what happens to property prices and by extension UK economy) then they fill a need. People must live somewhere and not everybody can buy/wants to buy. If you kill the private rental market there is nowhere for them to go and what does remain multiplies in price.

If you argue that nobody should have more than one house and therefore there is enough to go around, then you can blame the government for that one not being viable. When Gordon Brown screwed private pensions people turned to buy to lets to supplement the inadequate state pension. Get rid of that and the government is going to have to pay for all those people's retirements or risk losing 3 million votes.
 
11101 said:
Everything you can think of has an unintended consequence.

Rent caps - landlords sell en masse, house prices crash and with it the economy, government has to step in.
More tax on landlords - just gets passed down to tenants.
Subsidies - cocks up just about everything it touches.
Controls on landlords - alienates higher risk tenants and forces them into the hands of unscrupulous landlords who don't follow the rules.
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If your economy crashes when the people hoarding houses are forced to sell them to the people who actually need houses.. maybe it's a pretty shitty economy that needs changing?
 
decorativeed said:
Total pie in the sky stuff. Since 2010, about 2,000,000 new homes have been built in the UK. In the same period the average price has increased from £160k to £260k - over 60%. How many millions more will we have to build to get the prices to come down?
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So that's 143k/year on average vs a 300k / year govt target.

The 2004 Barker Review, which it appears the govt target is baed on, said that in order to keep house price inflation to 1.1% per annum, we needed to build approx 300k new homes a year.
 
decorativeed said:
Total pie in the sky stuff. Since 2010, about 2,000,000 new homes have been built in the UK. In the same period the average price has increased from £160k to £260k - over 60%. How many millions more will we have to build to get the prices to come down?
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Population grew 4.3 million from 2010 to 2020.

A big part of this whole problem has been money printing which is only now coming to an end.


Mogget said:
If your economy crashes when the people hoarding houses are forced to sell them to the people who actually need houses.. maybe it's a pretty shitty economy that needs changing?
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Maybe but if you think its bad now just wait and see how bad it could get under that scenario.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
So he's banking on a successful euros for England?
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That might explain why he was so eager to be photographed at the Southampton game. No doubt he'll be donning the flag-shaggers armour when England play.

Big footie fan, are Richy. Not far right, just right. Nuff' said.
 
nickm said:
So that's 143k/year on average vs a 300k / year govt target.

The 2004 Barker Review, which it appears the govt target is baed on, said that in order to keep house price inflation to 1.1% per annum, we needed to build approx 300k new homes a year.
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You seem to have confused house prices going up with house prices coming down.
 
Mogget said:
If your economy crashes when the people hoarding houses are forced to sell them to the people who actually need houses.. maybe it's a pretty shitty economy that needs changing?
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Just buy all the landlord stock off the landlords, wouldn't cost a huge amount, then sell those houses and allow people to take out longer mortgages.
 
The Commons is due to rise for the Whitsun recess tomorrow. It is due to return on Monday 3 June. A dissolution on Thursday 6 June (which would allow time for non-controversial legislation to be passed in the wash-up) would allow an election to take place on Thursday 11 July.
 
decorativeed said:
You seem to have confused house prices going up with house prices coming down.
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No, I think you have misread what I am saying.

To keep prices stable (at 1% rise per year) the report says you need 300k houses/year.

I think we should be aiming for approx 3x that a year, in order to bring prices down.

Instead what we are actually doing is building about 150k houses/year.
 
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