Who should value the lives more? Those related to them? Or murderers out for their very lives?
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Using numbers from opposing sides to arrive at a conclusion that the civilian-combatant death ratio is favorable... It's laughable stuff, nothing to do with being uninformed.
This below is the rubbish you posted:
[No, according to him, it's also on Hamas, because they made "Israel fall into their trap"]
[Poor Netanyahu, did not know what was he doing the past 7 months.]
Which has nothing to do with what I said. So insist. Don't put words in my mouth.
That's why I don't know what to think about the people making these arguments. The blood thirsty psychos are not hidden, their leaders are in the government and israeli media mention them fairly regularly though they call them far right activists instead of murdering terrorists which admittedly could be why some are confused.
Incidentally, on an abstract level, I agree.
Does it really matter? Israel commits massacre after massacre. There is cleansing after cleaning, atrocity after atrocity, land taken after land taken.
As a country, they are beyond the pale and need bringing to heel. Of course they won't be because the western created world order will not allow it.
The point is however that yes, that is exactly what people are doing. You've got people literally in the last page agreeing that killing kids can be legal so *shoulder shrug *. Another poster comparing the civilian to combatant ratio to the Mosul ISIS fight favourably.
Yeah it shouldn't matter. In an ideal world, it wouldn't. In a world where Israel acts with impunity, where the people being killed are less human, and where the primary international backer is essentially the only country with any real strength, it does.
I don't remember even bringing up October 7th in my post. Hamas Rocket launching attacks from civilian areas knowing exactly what the eventual outcome will be is a tactic over 2 decades old.
I don't care really. I would rather have a neighbor who wouldn't give a shit if I dropped dead than a neighbor who is actively trying to murder me.
That's the thing here, as bad as hamas are (and they are) right now they are irrelevant, it's israel who is murdering innocents by the dozens on a daily basis.
That's the issue you didn't bring up October 7th in your post. If you did and your point started from that moment then it would make some sense but you didn't and that's why it's absolutely senseless because for some reason you didn't spot that you are argumentation describes israelis and their actions against civilians in Gaza, the West Bank but also Syria and they happen to kill far more on a yearly basis.
Egyptian media reporting clashes between Egyptian troops and Israeli troops on the border. They claim 1 IDF soldier was killed and 7 more wounded.
Why are you arbitrarily using the 2000s as a starting point? Its just as an ingenuous as me starting the timer on October 8th and painting a picture of Israel carrying out an onslaught on Gaza without any provocation. Again, Hamas are a symptom of over half a century of Palestinian subjugation, not to mention were themselves propped up by Israeli hardliners as a means to prolong any prospect of peace coming to fruition.
I don't understand your point here. Are you seriously suggesting the Palestinians bear the brunt of cruelty? And no, the Arabs didn't start all those wars. Have a look into what actually happened in 1967 for starters.
This needs moving to the hypernormalisation thread.
The premise is clearly fecking bullshit anyway, there's a contradiction every time these arguments are put forward, Israel claims every male death as Hamas. If people want to use bullshit figures from Israel whilst then saying Hamas don't care it's effectively saying all male Palestinians don't care about their families. I suggest these people go watch the videos of mourning fathers crying over dismembered family members including babies.
Then you have the same people saying 'well yeah Israel have killed people but it's war what ya gonna do'. Again a load of shite but if that's the argument then the Hamas equivalent is fighting from urban areas because they obviously can't fight from an open field.
What these people are truly saying is all Palestinians should show no resistance. No matter what happens to their loved ones. They should thank the IDF for the opportunity of having their family murdered so they can show no resistance and prove to some idiots how much they care.
Thats "natural deaths"
Because the more of the deaths that are combatants the better it looks for Israel and less combatants the worse it will look for Israel so obviously Hamas has an incentive for deaths to be labeled as civilian rather than combatant. Israel also obviously an incentive to label more deaths as combatant. I certainly don't trust Israel's claims that 15K or so are combatants but I don't trust Hamas claims either since both sides have an incentive to report differently. It's probably impossible to get an accurate number though on how many of those are combatants and how many are civilian.
Anyone watching Dispatches on Channel 4?
I assume then you are not.
Hamas' own reported numbers are too low and Israel's too high?
These disingenous and morally questionable posts pop up everytime Israel massively screws up or is under too much heat.
It. Happens. Every. Single.Time. Without fail.
The horsecrap about Hamas numbers is an attempt to downplay the carnage in Rafah. Their numbers have been very similar to Israel's in every
If Israel doesn't trust Hamas numbers, why doesn't it let anyone into Gaza?
There's some genuinely enlightening posts about the moral compass of quite a few here.
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I’ve had this thread on ignore as I’ve had 1 too many warning points. Just came to post free Palestine.
Isreal is pure evil.
Isreal is pure evil.
He and his Administration are fully responsible for the whole disaster. They wilfully let the situation escalate and grow completely out of control, backing a to the hilt an ultra-right government that can't wait to see the back of them.
No I’m away. What’s it about
Mark Twain said you shouldn’t argue with stupid people as they bring you down to their level and then beat with experience.
Those who support Israel’s actions and dress up genocide as self defence, or pretend to be the victims when we have seen Palestinians subjected to massacre after massacre, having their land stolen, displacement, demonisation, the list goes on, are the actual ‘human animals’ that the Israeli government spoke of. Their lack of compassion or humanity means they are not made of the same stuff the rest of us are.
I have realised that no amount of logic, facts, moral discussion, ethics etc are going to convince them they are on the wrong side of history. They are a lost cause and quite frankly finished as human beings.
so do yourselves a favour and don’t bother.
Those who support Israel’s actions and dress up genocide as self defence, or pretend to be the victims when we have seen Palestinians subjected to massacre after massacre, having their land stolen, displacement, demonisation, the list goes on, are the actual ‘human animals’ that the Israeli government spoke of. Their lack of compassion or humanity means they are not made of the same stuff the rest of us are.
I have realised that no amount of logic, facts, moral discussion, ethics etc are going to convince them they are on the wrong side of history. They are a lost cause and quite frankly finished as human beings.
so do yourselves a favour and don’t bother.
Crikey, some people need to give their heads a wobble.
Israel is demolishing an entire fecking country and launching bombs and bullets in civilian areas. They are an Evil country murdering thousands of women and children. Murdering journalists, police and anyone remotely connected to the health industry. While also murdering and destroying homes of innocent locals in their own fecking country too.
Wake the feck up. Hamas are stupid evil cnuts too, but Israel are taking it to a completely different level of shittery. Of course Hamas are fecking hiding, the entire country is getting flattened while the majority of the World looks on and does absolutely nothing.
Israel is demolishing an entire fecking country and launching bombs and bullets in civilian areas. They are an Evil country murdering thousands of women and children. Murdering journalists, police and anyone remotely connected to the health industry. While also murdering and destroying homes of innocent locals in their own fecking country too.
Wake the feck up. Hamas are stupid evil cnuts too, but Israel are taking it to a completely different level of shittery. Of course Hamas are fecking hiding, the entire country is getting flattened while the majority of the World looks on and does absolutely nothing.
Yezid Sayigh always worth reading:
Setting Up An Arab Civil War
The Biden administration’s plan for the “day after” in Gaza would be disastrous without the promise of Palestinian statehood.
https://carnegieendowment.org/middle-east/diwan/2024/05/setting-up-the-next-arab-civil-war?lang=en
Setting Up An Arab Civil War
The Biden administration’s plan for the “day after” in Gaza would be disastrous without the promise of Palestinian statehood.
https://carnegieendowment.org/middle-east/diwan/2024/05/setting-up-the-next-arab-civil-war?lang=en
Killing innocent people is a "tragic mishap" ...
feck Netanyahu. feck Israel.
feck Netanyahu. feck Israel.
Israel kills a few dozen more in a camp including children and Netanyahu says it was an unfortunate mistake.
It’s amazing considering the billions and billions and billions of dollars donated to the genocidical, lying bunch of xxxxers that their state of the art weapons have so many mistakes?
The only other option is the genocidical lying tw@ts are genocidical lying tw@ts?
Amazed some posters still on the Caf.
It’s amazing considering the billions and billions and billions of dollars donated to the genocidical, lying bunch of xxxxers that their state of the art weapons have so many mistakes?
The only other option is the genocidical lying tw@ts are genocidical lying tw@ts?
Amazed some posters still on the Caf.
We’ll no doubt hear the usual line from Western leaders about supporting Israel’s right to defend itself ‘but within reason’ whilst it launches rockets into Rafah camps.
Someone needs to have some bollocks and call these twats out and hold them accountable for this. ICJ and UN have been weak as piss so far.
Someone needs to have some bollocks and call these twats out and hold them accountable for this. ICJ and UN have been weak as piss so far.
Yeah it’s complete and utter BS which keeps happening. “An investigation” will follow - feck right off. The Biden administration can feck right off too.
No, that is not what I meant.
You quoted the numbers provided by Israel as if they were a fact, then suggested the Palestinian ones could be fake (“that’s if you believe Hamas’ numbers” or something similar). It sounds biased, so that’s what I meant by my post.
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Now even EU is about to be antisemitic.
When the 1st hospital attack happened, it led to weeks of discourse: "Palestinians can't shoot straight", death toll is actually much lower, accidentally hit fuel storage, etc. When they first raided a hospital, there was a lot of discourse: MRI machine armoury, tunnels underneath, etc. When they first mowed down people surrounding an aid truck, there was tons of dicsourse: Hamas did it, these were terrorists, etc.
Since then they have attacked almost every hospital using both air and ground forces, have massacred people lining up for aid multiple times, and there has been no discourse and no need for a cover story since it becomes an accepted part of this war.
I am biased, I suppose. Against Hamas. You are right, of course, one shouldn't just accept these numbers. Hamas' or Israels. But, Hamas's numbers should by default be assumed wrong and too high. They literally want as many dead Palestinains as possible. Israels will, as with any such estimate, come with a margin of error. 13.000 +/- whatever, pick a number.
Israel has no interest in inflating the number of killed Hamas operatives?
They don't need to. No palestinian is innocent so the number of Hamas operatives killed equals the number of palestinians killed.
Sure they may have an interest in it. Don't equate to them doing so.