Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

VP89 said:
How conservative does he need to get? He got a green light from the player too when he checked in. It's just nit picking at this stage. I can totally understand if he twisted a players arm to play or do what Ole did and oblige them to play through painkillers, but he didn't.
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Well if returning players kept getting reinjured could he not add a week to even two to the return schedule the medical team had been advising?

Players will quite often say they are fit and ready even when they are not. As was the case with Shaw.
 
What happened to those reports about De Zerbi agreeing terms with a club but it remaining secret? Starting to seem like nonsense that as I can't see any reason that it would be so secret still.

Yeah, as I've been increasingly thinking, think ETH stays.
 
My opinion is that the club don't want ETH and are looking to upgrade on him. But, after exploring options, they haven't found anybody who fits the bill of being a clear upgrade, or at least the 'right' choice.

I think we'll end up staying with ETH, but only until the right manager is available, and then he'll be replaced.

The much easier option is if they can find a way of it working with ETH. That is in everyone's interests.
 
stevoc said:
Well if returning players kept getting reinjured could he not add a week to even two to the return schedule the medical team had been advising?

Players will quite often say they are fit and ready even when they are not. As was the case with Shaw.
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Players also say they aren't. They aren't all blind yes men and can listen to their body.

There was a week between the Villa game and the Luton game.
 
stevoc said:
Well apparently they gave him shit advice on multiple occasions. Which lead to more than one player getting injured or aggrevating injuries as they weren't ready to play yet.

At what point should he at least consider that they were giving him shit advice? How many times would it need to happen before you think it would be reasonabe for him to question the advice?
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I've replied to another post of yours.

stevoc said:
I've asked people to consider the possibility that a manager can choose not to follow advice.
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saik said:
Would you be okay with him not following the advice and actually rushing back players earlier than advised then? Cause there might be cases where the player is actually available but the medical staff has advised he isn't as we have now established their advice is shit. Is that what we want?
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If we say it's okay for the manager to ignore medical staffs advice that would be a dangerous precedent for us to set.
 
VP89 said:
Players also say they aren't. They aren't all blind yes men and can listen to their body.

There was a week between the Villa game and the Luton game.
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True but a player can't aggrevate an injury by not playing.
 
saik said:
I've replied to another post of yours.





If we say it's okay for the manager to ignore medical staffs advice that would be a dangerous precedent for us to set.
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Yeah I'm not understanding this narrative.
 
Superunknown said:
My opinion is that the club don't want ETH and are looking to upgrade on him. But, after exploring options, they haven't found anybody who fits the bill of being a clear upgrade, or at least the 'right' choice.

I think we'll end up staying with ETH, but only until the right manager is available, and then he'll be replaced.

The much easier option is if they can find a way of it working with ETH. That is in everyone's interests.
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It's not in Ten Hag's best interest though is it? What's the point continuing, knowing your boss is just waiting to sack you, what kind of effort is he going to put in with that in the back of his mind? He'll be at the mercy of the media, and the club has shown him no support at all.

What if he's offered a good job and simply walks, while none of these potential managers are available?

This situation has been managed terribly by the new executives, and if the end result is Southgate they will lose the majority of the fans.
 
saik said:
I've replied to another post of yours.





If we say it's okay for the manager to ignore medical staffs advice that would be a dangerous precedent for us to set.
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Not sure it would.

I'm asking if it is within Ten Hag's power, on the basis of continued advice from the medical staff apparently leading to players getting reinjured. For him to take a more conservative approach than they are advising and adding an extra week or two to their return estimates.

No where have I suggested he should rush players back from injury before they are ready.
 
FujiVice said:
He's absolutely sacked. How do you speak to managers during a supposed "review" if you're keeping him on? What's happened is, the owners thought he was losing that final, so planned on sacking him and he's publicly put a spanner in their plans. Now they look the bad guys by making a decision they clearly want to make.
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I mean it's possible they had some people they thought may be upgrades so spoke to them. But if they weren't available now. Be could conceivable be kept on because there's no point in sacking someone if you think the remaining alternatives are worse.
 
If they were keeping ETH they'd have briefed the journalists that he's staying ages ago. Something like... after a thorough review into the season the board are behind the manager and think with the new structure he can blah blah.

And they would have just phoned ETH to tell him his job is safe. They dont need him in person to keep him, only to sack him.

The problem is there's nothing to tell us whether they working out who they want out of Poch, RdZ or less-spoken about names, or are they genuinely waiting around for Southgate to crash out of the Euros.
 
pcaming said:
It's not in Ten Hag's best interest though is it? What's the point continuing, knowing your boss is just waiting to sack you, what kind of effort is he going to put in with that in the back of his mind? He'll be at the mercy of the media, and the club has shown him no support at all.

What if he's offered a good job and simply walks, while none of these potential managers are available?

This situation has been managed terribly by the new executives, and if the end result is Southgate they will lose the majority of the fans.
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Well, in a roundabout way, it is in ETH's interests that he keeps plugging way. If ETH does plan on jumping ship or moving on at some point, he looks more like an attractive proposition for his next employers if he is getting results, playing good football, getting along with the players and staff, etc.

I think it's far more likely that we sack and replace ETH than it is that he takes another job on and leaves us in the lurch. However, I do think it is concerning that we seem to be dragging this on and there doesn't seem to be an obvious replacement. There are some available managers, but there doesn't seem to be that one natural choice.

I am slightly curious at how ETH would do with a full season under the new management of the club. It's interesting to see which players they may be targeting.
 
stevoc said:
No where have I suggested he should rush players back from injury before they are ready.
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No but you said he should ignore their advice based on what happened after he had followed their advice. Every manager wants their best players available which gives them best chance of winning games. The finger should be pointed at the medical staff for their advice rather than the manager for following their advice and also the player himself giving the green light.
 
FujiVice said:
He's absolutely sacked. How do you speak to managers during a supposed "review" if you're keeping him on? What's happened is, the owners thought he was losing that final, so planned on sacking him and he's publicly put a spanner in their plans. Now they look the bad guys by making a decision they clearly want to make.
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Or their main target has been reluctant to take the job and they either tried to convince him or are trying to find an alternative.
 
So it appears they don't want to continue with Ten Hag, which is promising. Probably waiting to sort out the replacement before saying anything but at the same time don't want to put themselves in the same situation that Bayern did so they're not sacking him either. You can say it's unfair on Ten Hag but honestly, the way last season played out he can consider himself very lucky to stay in the job either way.
 
Only way Southgate happens is if we're moving to a format where the coach simply runs the dressing room. Wilcox, the DOF, Ashworth, loads of other fingers in the pie. I genuinely cant believe anyone competent would hire Southgate thinking he could improve this current lot. His track record in club management is at best poor and at worst Jurassic.

All I can think is that we're hiring this best in class board and a yes man so he doesnt complain when they stick their nose into on field matters.
 
saik said:
No but you said he should ignore their advice based on what happened after he had followed their advice. Every manager wants their best players available which gives them best chance of winning games.
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Just like to point out I never actually used the word ignore, you have though multiple times now. I simply posed the question could Ten Hag not take a more conservative approach to reintroducing players who are returning from injury. If as has been claimed the medical team gave him bad advice on multiple occasions and the players were not actually ready to return.

That is the exact opposite of trying to rush players back from injury before they're ready.

The finger should be pointed at the medical staff for their advice rather than the manager for following their advice and also the player himself giving the green light.
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So everyone is partly at fault except for Ten Hag. Interesting.

Shaw himself seems to think everyone involved in the decision was at fault.
 
stevoc said:
Just like to point out I never actually used the word ignore, you have though multiple times now. I simply posed the question could Ten Hag not take a more conservative approach to reintroducing players who are returning from injury. If as has been claimed the medical team gave him bad advice and the players on multiple occasions were not actually ready.

That is the exact opposite of trying to rush players back form injury before they're ready.



So everyone is partly at fault except for Ten Hag. Interesting.

Shaw himself seems to think everyone involved in the decision was at fault.
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But there was a week between two games, he obviously trained, and he consulted the player too after the medical team gave the green light.

How conservative do you need the man to be?
 
I was in favour of Tuchel and I suspect him not being available is because either we've taken too long or we're not interested in him. This guy was publicly crying out to come back to the PL.

I wouldn't be mad at Poch getting appointed but anyone else and I'd question the rationale. It feels like we will have no choice to keep ETH. It's not my preferred option but the lack of perceived confidence in him makes me concerned too.
 
stevoc said:
Just like to point out I never actually used the word ignore, you have though multiple times now. I simply posed the question could Ten Hag not take a more conservative approach to reintroducing players who are returning from injury. If as has been claimed the medical team gave him bad advice on multiple occasions and the players were not actually ready to return.
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stevoc said:
Should Ten Hag have kept following their advice?
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You did the say the above. The opposite of that would be ignoring them, so yea if you want him to be conservative, you are asking him to go against whatever the medical staff and the player himself have said to him.


stevoc said:
So everyone is partly at fault except for Ten Hag. Interesting.
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There's a reason the medical staff have been consulted and there's a reason he also asked the player as they know better about their bodies than the manager. He's a manager, his job is to win games. So he will pick his best players when they are available. This is true of literally every manager out there. Why else would Southgate take an injured Shaw to the Euros if he hasn't been assured by his medical staff that he would be fit to play? So yea, if Shaw gets injured again at the Euros, the blame should be placed at the player and also the national team's medical staff for assuring that he would be fit to take a part in the competition.
 
Ratcliffe wont even address a question about ETH but is meeting Tuchel in Monaco and telling him he's not their preferred candidate.

I mean could it get any clearer without the official announcement
 
hobbers said:
Ratcliffe wont even address a question about ETH but is meeting Tuchel in Monaco and telling him he's not their preferred candidate.

I mean could it get any clearer without the official announcement
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Southgate is what you're hinting?
 
Worth mentioning that the Times updated their article on the Tuchel meeting. Now reporting he felt he would not be offered the gig after meeting Ratcliffe before then deciding to take the summer off.

I think it is clear Ratcliffe wants a new man in charge but there is nothing interesting out there. I think Ten Hag will stay and the hierarchy can reassess throughout the season.
 
saivet said:
I was in favour of Tuchel and I suspect him not being available is because either we've taken too long or we're not interested in him. This guy was publicly crying out to come back to the PL.

I wouldn't be mad at Poch getting appointed but anyone else and I'd question the rationale. It feels like we will have no choice to keep ETH. It's not my preferred option but the lack of perceived confidence in him makes me concerned too.
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Does anyone know the process that must be followed before we can sack TH? Is this solely an INEOS matter or is Joel Glazer an integral part of the process? I can't imagine the Glazers being sidelined for a decision of this magnitude.
 
Superunknown said:
My opinion is that the club don't want ETH and are looking to upgrade on him. But, after exploring options, they haven't found anybody who fits the bill of being a clear upgrade, or at least the 'right' choice.

I think we'll end up staying with ETH, but only until the right manager is available, and then he'll be replaced.

The much easier option is if they can find a way of it working with ETH. That is in everyone's interests.
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Its not i everyones interests. Why would they waste a season on a manager that they dont want. And that toxic relationship between eth and the owners. He knows they dont want him. Best for everyone is to sack him. Cleary they have lined up a canditate, he is gonna get sacked this week.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
Southgate wasn't mentioned in today's Times article.
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Good. Yet Pochettino doesn't make it that much better.

The only one I'd take now is probably De Zerbi. Or just stick with Ten Hag. Pochettino or Frank... yeah, no thanks.
 
Moriarty said:
Does anyone know the process that must be followed before we can sack TH? Is this solely an INEOS matter or is Joel Glazer an integral part of the process? I can't imagine the Glazers being sidelined for a decision of this magnitude.
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I believe INEOS have control of the football operations. Perhaps some discussion would be required in terms of the financials but they would have surely hashed this all out already.
 
Superunknown said:
I am slightly curious at how ETH would do with a full season under the new management of the club. It's interesting to see which players they may be targeting.
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After seeing what has happened with players that he knew, recommended and selected, I dread to see what he would do with players selected and bought by others.The pro-Hag crowd on caf would concoct 6,000 excuses when the thrashings start again. Oh this one was too short, the other one too lanky, that player isn't technical, this other one is too technical,the new recruits have made the core too British, this one doesn't understand the manager and doesn't follow instructions, this one doesn't smile when substituted which suggests he is indisciplined and insolent, this one smiles too much and affects the concentration of 'poor' Ten Hag..and so on.

Then the justifications will begin...ooh the thrashings keep coming because our poor Hag was hung out to dry by the recruitment team and was not consulted....oh the players should first have had psychological tests to see if they had a winning mentally to match the manager.....oh the INEOS team dont 'feel' Ten Hag and don't understand his genius...oh even the thrashings are not too bad considering poor Hag is bedding in the new players and he is the first manager in the history of mankind to handle such a diverse group..and so on.
 
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VP89 said:
But there was a week between two games, he obviously trained, and he consulted the player too after the medical team gave the green light.

How conservative do you need the man to be?
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In the case of Shaw I believe he only trained the day before the match.


Well if the medical team as you say gave him bad advice on multiple occasions that lead to injuries recurring. Then at some point it might have been beneficial for Ten Hag to start taking a much more cautious approach to reintroducing players back into the team.
 
stevoc said:
In the case of Shaw I believe he only trained the day before the match.


Well if the medical team as you say gave him bad advice on multiple occasions that lead to injuries recurring. Then at some point it might have been beneficial for Ten Hag to start taking a much more cautious approach to reintroducing players back into the team.
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This was half way through the season, before they fecked up the Casemiro hamstring injury if I recall. Moreover, my point stands - Shaw trained. He consulted with Shaw as well as the medical team.

There is a week between games. Ten hag showed the right amount of pragmatism at the time.
 
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