Surely we would be better off following our sense of conscience?
Gunmen attack Mumbai in at least seven places
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Surely we would be better off following our sense of conscience?
Sultan, you still haven't commented on that line. I need to know your perspective.
Post number 424
As for India's security system its the best the current government or any other one can provide, no city barring Moscow under commies have managed to structure a perfect 24x7 security system to manage every other miniature movements and no amount of armed guards and cctv cameras can prevent these disasters in countries like India or the USA.
The media and some inward looking celeb morons have already had a feild day in lashing out at the government, basically for a country with the population density and diverse culture like India its the Intelligence Bureau and RAW with their spy network have saved the citizens from countless terrorist attacks, for every day Indians end a peaceful days work they must thank these security agencies for that. Its also harsh to blame them for one such failure, their success in preventing terrorist attacks were never brought out to the common public for all apparent reasons.
As for this attack its now established ISI with terrorist organizations like JEM and LET along with the aid of logistics support from of Dawood Ibhrahim have planned out the attack.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/29mumterror-dawood-provided-logistical-support.htm
"that the dozen ultras who sailed from Karachi had come to Sassoon Dock from where they were taken first to Cuff Parade and later to the Gateway of India in boats arranged by a frontman of Dawood, who runs several custom clearing houses in Mumbai, the sources claimed.
The Mumbai police and central security agencies have launched a massive manhunt for the businessman considered to be a henchman of Dawood, who has been listed as a global terrorist having links to the Al Qaeda [Images] by the United States."
The intelligence agencies had sent a warning note to the Coast Guard to keep a watch out for an unidentified Pakistani trawler sailing from Karachi port which may enter into Indian waters. While the Coast Guard was looking for a Pakistani or unidentified vessel, the terrorists hijacked the Indian fishing trawler Kuber after killing its crew and entered the Mumbai seas.
As per Pakistani constitution ISI is above the parliament, they have powers more than the president or the prime minister and it had led to the assasination of Bhutto Sr, Zia , other leaders and had eventually destroyed the democracy in the country in due course. If ISI can manage to kill Zia and over throw Musharaf I dont presume Zardari would be in a position to control it and that gutless gonad is too fragile to provoke India in the current poltical equation as it can backfire severely on his government. May be its another coup planned by ISI to put Zardari in fix, nobody knows.
As for the internal conflicts, 99% of the Indian muslims give a flying feck to geo political equation or Pakistani stand on the Kashmir issue, and never bothered to choose their mandate over that, yet terrorists across the border can still recruit some job less retards for their espionage activities. Nonetheless, whether its ISI hiding behind Pakistani government or vice versa times up to send a strong message, take the guns and blow their tits off.
The media and some inward looking celeb morons have already had a feild day in lashing out at the government, basically for a country with the population density and diverse culture like India its the Intelligence Bureau and RAW with their spy network have saved the citizens from countless terrorist attacks, for every day Indians end a peaceful days work they must thank these security agencies for that. Its also harsh to blame them for one such failure, their success in preventing terrorist attacks were never brought out to the common public for all apparent reasons.
As for this attack its now established ISI with terrorist organizations like JEM and LET along with the aid of logistics support from of Dawood Ibhrahim have planned out the attack.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/29mumterror-dawood-provided-logistical-support.htm
"that the dozen ultras who sailed from Karachi had come to Sassoon Dock from where they were taken first to Cuff Parade and later to the Gateway of India in boats arranged by a frontman of Dawood, who runs several custom clearing houses in Mumbai, the sources claimed.
The Mumbai police and central security agencies have launched a massive manhunt for the businessman considered to be a henchman of Dawood, who has been listed as a global terrorist having links to the Al Qaeda [Images] by the United States."
The intelligence agencies had sent a warning note to the Coast Guard to keep a watch out for an unidentified Pakistani trawler sailing from Karachi port which may enter into Indian waters. While the Coast Guard was looking for a Pakistani or unidentified vessel, the terrorists hijacked the Indian fishing trawler Kuber after killing its crew and entered the Mumbai seas.
As per Pakistani constitution ISI is above the parliament, they have powers more than the president or the prime minister and it had led to the assasination of Bhutto Sr, Zia , other leaders and had eventually destroyed the democracy in the country in due course. If ISI can manage to kill Zia and over throw Musharaf I dont presume Zardari would be in a position to control it and that gutless gonad is too fragile to provoke India in the current poltical equation as it can backfire severely on his government. May be its another coup planned by ISI to put Zardari in fix, nobody knows.
As for the internal conflicts, 99% of the Indian muslims give a flying feck to geo political equation or Pakistani stand on the Kashmir issue, and never bothered to choose their mandate over that, yet terrorists across the border can still recruit some job less retards for their espionage activities. Nonetheless, whether its ISI hiding behind Pakistani government or vice versa times up to send a strong message, take the guns and blow their tits off.
excellent post vijay but people are pissed at the politicians who use these occasions to further that political agenda instead of uniting and fighting terrorism. we need a central agency which tackles terrorism.
I'm guessing they have to be conspiracy theories. It'd be a very roundabout way to kill him, how could've they've been sure he'd be on the scene.
But they did get help from locals.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Mumbai_locals_helped_us_terrorist_tells_cops/articleshow/3774106.cms
When this attack went on for so long I did wonder whether India's security forces were good enough to deal with this threat but, having since read up about them a little more, they do seem well equipped with the NSG commandos and the ATS.
This (genuine) photo of the Mumbai ATS made me smile though....
This (genuine) photo of the Mumbai ATS made me smile though....
Contradiction number 1:
If you have an answer for this, then we will move onto contradiction number 2.
Its virtually the same answer given in Hinduism. I can give you the answer but its not the right forum with too many chartered accountants and journalists hanging around here too afraid to pursue mathematics yet are projecting here as physicists in their middle age.
I'm pretty sure I saw that picture around the time of the Olympics, Chinese security forces training on themWhen this attack went on for so long I did wonder whether India's security forces were good enough to deal with this threat but, having since read up about them a little more, they do seem well equipped with the NSG commandos and the ATS.
This (genuine) photo of the Mumbai ATS made me smile though....
Mike I'm not a scholar and neither are you. This is the 'blogs' bit I mentioned in my post to Millhouse
. This isn't the forum and 1 billion Muslims will not stop being Muslims on my answer or your question.My point is: scholars get together, get the contradiction(s) nailed, Islam ceases to exist. Surely non-Muslims and Muslims alike can put some money together to make this happen?
Are you suggesting India should invade Pakistan?
yeah that's right, I remember seeing it when the Olympiad rolled around as well, I think it is a stupid idea personally, but I am sure the guy who invented the Segway doesnt mind
The Pakistani Foreign Minister has come out and said "We face a common enemy'...which is very good....if India and Pakistan work together they can eradicate these groups...which need to be exterminated in the most brutal fashion just as Al Queda needs to be done in.
The next step would be Pakistan and India finally sitting down to resolve the very old Kashmir issue....easier said than done I know...
The next step would be Pakistan and India finally sitting down to resolve the very old Kashmir issue....easier said than done I know...
oink oink
Just been reading some eye witness accounts ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7756616.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7756616.stm
What a ridiculous statement and one that can only come from an American. Big deal, a few of you said 'Iraq is too far'. so what? What did that achieve? What was intended to happen still happens.
The 'yes but' brigade is the most impotent of all. Claiming they themselves do not support the actions of thier country as thought that exonerates them from the acts taking place.
What you Americans must realize is that all this 'terror war' is your doing. These people are reacting. These incidents have nothing to do with Islam. And so Muslims have no reason to proclaim the 'yes but' reaction that you are seeking.
Pot calling the kettle black there
Not necessarily. We've been through years of Terrorist leaders condeming terrorism against innocent civilians and then ordering additional attacks. Could be nothing more than lip service.
Damn police arriving after 20 minutes at the Leopold, and after 30 minutes at the station. The two terrorists walked calmly from the cafe to the Taj without getting apprehended.
Why is there no permanent armed police presence at one of the busiest stations in the world?
Mike I'm not a scholar and neither are you. This is the 'blogs' bit I mentioned in my post to Millhouse
My point is: scholars get together, get the contradiction(s) nailed, Islam ceases to exist. Surely non-Muslims and Muslims alike can put some money together to make this happen?
Why do you downplay your own intellect so much? We can all read, we all have copies of the Qur'an, and we're all intelligent enough to see whether or not two statements contradict.
Of course some things will need to be deferred to historians and scholars of language, because there might be subtle mistranslations in the text. For example, the word for 'clay' in the old language might be really close to the word for 'nothing' and so could be explained by a mistranslation.
But other than things like that, I think you may just be trying to scholar your way out of problems
.Serious question, I'm not trying to be clever:
If muslims don't believe in borrowing money then are the world's one billion muslims laughing at the rest of the world mired in it's credit crunch and are they about to take advantage and make a comparative leap forward in economic terms?
I don't like borrowing myself and have been shamefully guilty of a bit of schadenfreude this last year or so.
If muslims don't believe in borrowing money then are the world's one billion muslims laughing at the rest of the world mired in it's credit crunch and are they about to take advantage and make a comparative leap forward in economic terms?
I don't like borrowing myself and have been shamefully guilty of a bit of schadenfreude this last year or so.
Muslims do borrow money don't they? I think it's the payment or receipt of interest that is considered sinful.
There are ways round that though.
There are ways round that though.
Muslims do borrow money - in fact islamic finance is a fast growing sector
Who lends money without requiring interest, I might get some myself?
They do pay interest but basically call it something else. It's generally termed a kind of 'rent'. Legally, the lender purchases the item and then 'rents' it to the consumer for a period of time. At the end of the rental period ownership of the item is transferred to the consumer and the total 'rental' fees, by some stroke of luck, adds up to the purchase price plus a nice bit of interest.
It's just interest by a different name. It amuses me how god is so easily fooled by word games.
Interest is still charged and paid - they just don't call it interest.
You'll find banks buying properties and then 'renting' it to the client.
I'm sure there are others more qualified on here to explain the loopholes.
I would be interested to hear from any Muslims who can explain what exactly is said in the Qu'ran that forbids receiving interest? and who exactly decides that these complicated financial structures that make islamic finance possible are compliant with the wishes of Allah?
Farrukh Raza from Islamic Finance Advisory and Assurance Services, an independent consultancy, says: 'The issue isn't with making money, it's the conditions in which that money is made. So instead of making money through interest, Islamic banks will make money through profit or through rent when the bank owns the property as an asset. It is important to remember that Islamic mortgages simply offer an alternative financing structure which gives Muslim customers different options - it's not a 0 per cent deal to buy your house for nothing.'
Personally I think it makes a mockery of the rule/religion if it can be so easily circumvented.
Yes, but isn't this quite recent? I don't know but I would have thought the majority of the islamic world's businesses and wealth would have been built up before this modern banking thing.
Well that's answered a few questions.
It would be interesting to know what Muhammad would have thought of all that, but then again, if he knew what we know now I suppose he might have written a lot of things differently.
Israeli Hostages tortured before execution.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/30mumterror-doctors-shocked-at-hostagess-torture.htm
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/30mumterror-doctors-shocked-at-hostagess-torture.htm
bastards
I reckon the idea is to give a mobile firing platform, a man on foot has to stop to shoot with accuracy, these guys don't
One of the terrorists.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wo...Fire_In_Taj_Mahal_Palace_Hotel,_Mumbai,_India
He looks like Tevez.
Would you not lack mobility if you're being fired at?
Muslim organisation in Mumbai refuse to bury the terrorists, and have urged all other Muslims to refuse them a burial on Indian soil.
Great message to send out to any future wannabes.
Great message to send out to any future wannabes.