Scores die in Israeli air strikes

Sammsky, I apologize for my many errors, and I bow to your obvious wealth of knowledge about the region of South Asia. No, I'm not kidding. As you noted, somewhat sarcastically, I am but an amateur historian when it comes to this part of the world. I admit this.

But although I got many crucial facts absolutely wrong, and made an exaggeration or two... I stick to my central argument. Which is that one cannot look at the unbelievable brutality of 1971 and blame it all on Mountbatten, the British, and their desire to soq dissent amongst the nations of the world, the better to rule them. But I feel your arguments did just that, and take any blame for the events of the last sixty years away from those who have committed crimes against their neighbors. Peaceloving, good-hearted people do not turn into savages in two and a half decades just because someone drew lines on a map - Pakistan should never be allowed to point back to 1947 and say that the injustice of Partition was the cause, and must take the blame for what they did 24 years later. I feel like your attitude toward Partition, and also toward Palestine, takes all responsibility for their actions away from those who have suffered any injustice, and I don't accept that.
 
sammsky1 said:
Is there some kind of international law or some kind of RedCafe etiquette somewhere which says one is not allowed to take 'an extremely anti-Israel position' :wenger::wenger::wenger: I cant take you guys seriously anymore. You just too funny. Not.

You make some 'big claims' there based on your 'impressions' and 'feelings' that 'i spit' out 'clearly false' things. Wow there is alot of hypothesis, interpretation and reinterpretation going into your accusations there! Im sure there is some fact left in there somewhere.

I'll tell you for the last time, stop playing the 'victim card' and lets have the debate on the morality of what is going on right now. I know your problem and I almsot sympathise with you... its just because that you can't, you have no basis for a cohereant argument, you know what is happeing is wrong, you know it and you know that I. And so to stop this being exposed quite so forecfully as I am doing, so the same old 'victim' stuff comes out. You tried it earlier with your spectacular 'eejit' interpretation claim a few pages back. You're not very good at it!

Anyway, please, please, please stop whining, you're beginning to remind me of John Terry.
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You write long posts but don't say much except about your past, your degrees, how good your own arguments are, and how evil Israel is.

If I remember correctly Sultan had a quote once about when anger sets in...

PS. Don't actually delude yourself that you're winning the argument in the eyes of neutral people because there are no neutral people besides the people who don't care. Otherwise, you're as entrenched and as fallacious as the side you're arguing against.
 
kuanteen said:
You write long posts but don't say much except about your past, your degrees, how good your own arguments are, and how evil Israel is.

If I remember correctly Sultan had a quote once about when anger sets in...

PS. Don't actually delude yourself that you're winning the argument in the eyes of neutral people because there are no neutral people besides the people who don't care. Otherwise, you're as entrenched and as fallacious as the side you're arguing against.
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Spot on.
 
Chris H said:
Sammsky, I apologize for my many errors, and I bow to your obvious wealth of knowledge about the region of South Asia. No, I'm not kidding. As you noted, somewhat sarcastically, I am but an amateur historian when it comes to this part of the world. I admit this.

But although I got many crucial facts absolutely wrong, and made an exaggeration or two... I stick to my central argument. Which is that one cannot look at the unbelievable brutality of 1971 and blame it all on Mountbatten, the British, and their desire to sow dissent amongst the nations of the world, the better to rule them. But I feel your arguments did just that, and take any blame for the events of the last sixty years away from those who have committed crimes against their neighbors. Peaceloving, good-hearted people do not turn into savages in two and a half decades just because someone drew lines on a map - Pakistan should never be allowed to point back to 1947 and say that the injustice of Partition was the cause, and must take the blame for what they did 24 years later. I feel like your attitude toward Partition, and also toward Palestine, takes all responsibility for their actions away from those who have suffered any injustice, and I don't accept that.
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Chris, wow, it does take some special character to take such a hammering and still get of the floor and try again for the next round! Respect to you for that. :)

You have very astutely and accurately detected on the central point upon which we differ. And thanks for putting it so simply.

Yes, its just the way I think that root causes are critical, that unless fundamental decisions and root causes are not analysed and analysed again, then the knock on effects many decisions later are just inevitable. Of course at some point someone could make a stand. But who is that person? Why should it be them? Why should they be the better man but with no reward when everybody else around them is living in full madness? Had the fundamental decision itself not been flawed, it would not have happened.

Take Iraq II as an example. Are we really going to blame Iraqi's when in not many years from now from they continue to seek revenge and payback across the western world? Was it really the case after 7/7 when Blair tried to insinuate that it had nothing to do with people protesting about an illegal war in which over 100,000 innocent Iraqi people have been killed.

It was so all avoidable. The fundamental decision was flawed. As always, there was a defining moment, when a man was tested for his real integrity. He had the opportunity to change the script and take a stand like what you mentioned and I talk about above. And Colin Powell failed so badly in that those moments in the UN and I hold him as responsible for the atrocities and madness in Iraq as much as I do Bush and Blair.

Why not just get the original decision right, in accordance with international law and not so complicated simple decent human decency and morality?

Allow me to share with you an example on what happens when you get it right. I'm using Singapore as my base right now given the amount of travel Im having to all across the region in my job right now. 100 miles north of here is a run down poverty stricken village in Malaysia. 100 miles east of here are down and out villages in Indonesia where many children cant read or right. I constantly remind that to all my new Singapore acquaintances when they complain about there lives in this most amazingly developed, modern 21st century city called Singapore. Singapore could so easily have been like the places in Indonesia and Malaysia that I just described. But Lee Kuan Yew made sure that he took THE RIGHT DECISIONS 30 years ago so make Singapore follow a path that it was not meant to do.

Of course that cannot excuse people who continue on a bandwagon once its moving, but who should be the first to stop? And I for one fully hold the Pakistanis accountable for the atrocities in 1971 which you did have impressive knowledge about.:) Not many people do. To take Pletch's point further, comapred with Hitler's Jewish genocide, half as many Bangladeshis were murdered in that struggle , so they should get 50% coverage in history as the Jews did after WW2, right?


Re Jews, Muslims and Palestine I do ultimately think the fundamental decision was THE WRONG ONE and everything after that is just an inevitable consequence and am at peace with that conclusion. So if that means Im taking an 'Anti Israel' position, so be it. And despite the derision I got from right wing idiots like the self claimed 'HolyLand' (his name says it all really)for befriending a Rabbi who tragically lost his life in the Mumbai tragedy and being proud about it (you know I got 6 PMs yesterday from posters I'd never exchanged views before with expressing their disgust at his remarks and attitude), I personally carry on doing what I think is right.

Good debating and exchanging view's with you.
 
kuanteen said:
You write long posts but don't say much except about your past, your degrees, how good your own arguments are, and how evil Israel is.

If I remember correctly Sultan had a quote once about when anger sets in...

PS. Don't actually delude yourself that you're winning the argument in the eyes of neutral people because there are no neutral people besides the people who don't care. Otherwise, you're as entrenched and as fallacious as the side you're arguing against.
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and who are you? The queen of sheeba?

As for winning? who said anything about winning. I have no care for 'winning'/ As far as I remember, this is a forum to debate and give opinions. That's all Im doing. If you don't have anything to say, then don't say anything.

And for your criticizing me for actually writing sentences and in paragraphs? I consider it an honour when posters respond to my posts and give them the courtesy of a decent reply. I make no apology for that. Good God, just how uneducated are people nowadays in the UK? Does reading on a forum give you a headache? Then I suggest you give up reading and so back to drawing or joys watch TV.
 
sammsky1 said:
Wondered how long it would take for RedCafe's 'elite Right Wing' to turn up. Wheres your mate Frosty hiding? Have you taken his place in the 1st xi?
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You're kidding right? I'm not fit to lace Frosty's boots.

Probably the first time I've ever been called right wing too. Except for that season where they wouldn't let me play up front. Bastards.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
You're kidding right? I'm not fit to lace Frosty's boots.
Probably the first time I've ever been called right wing too. Except for that season where they wouldn't let me play up front. Bastards.
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:lol: How are you? Long time, no chat! HAPPY NEW YEAR BTW!

Anything you care to say on this or for once, will we actually agree?!
 
vijay said:
The more this bloody battle prolongs in Gaza, more tough for Israel to get out of the tangles. They cannot survive for long taking on the entire Islamic world as a whole, at least the angle these attacks normally gets projected, and could run out luck on the longer run.
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Ironically, it would seem at least a substantial portion of the Islamic world supports Israel at the moment in dealing with Hamas and its latest round of attacks.
 
Nucks said:
Ironically, it would seem at least a substantial portion of the Islamic world supports Israel at the moment in dealing with Hamas and its latest round of attacks.
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In your view is that public opinion or what Governments are having to say to manange their own political realities. Do you have some evidence/source?
 
sammsky1 said:
In your view is that public opinion or what Governments are having to say to manange their own political realities. Do you have some evidence/source?
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Regardless, having to manage your own political reality is a reality in and of itself.
 
sammsky1 said:
:lol: How are you? Long time, no chat! HAPPY NEW YEAR BTW!

Anything you care to say on this or for once, will we actually agree?!
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Happy new year to you too. I'm very well thanks; getting used to living in London now.

I don't know if you've read the whole thread, but I've said my bit now and then. And probably angered equally the people who take extreme positions on both sides; that'll include you. The position you'll probably most disagree with me about is the relevance of the history of the conflict. I think constantly bringing up events that happened over half a century ago is a hindrance to any possible solution, and the present situation is a much greater concern than any wrongs in the past.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
Happy new year to you too. I'm very well thanks; getting used to living in London now.

I don't know if you've read the whole thread, but I've said my bit now and then. And probably angered equally the people who take extreme positions on both sides; that'll include you. The position you'll probably most disagree with me about is the relevance of the history of the conflict. I think constantly bringing up events that happened over half a century ago is a hindrance to any possible solution, and the present situation is a much greater concern than any wrongs in the past.
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I just moved out of London for a year or so and live in Sunny Singapore for abit. Fantastic as I get to watch every United match live on TV as a metter of course and on Saturday at 7pm or 10pm in a crowdy outdoor bar with 100's around to add abit of atmosphere! Its fantastic! Strange thinking of you as MikeDownSouth now!

As for your views on this, its the classic "yes but" position and yes, obviously different to my position which I just wrote above to Chris.

You have a fair point and in an idealistic world you are entirely correct. And if it could be achieved, of course that is what should be the solution. I have no idea how one gets to that point. There are just too many inconsistent adjacent and decisions that go on to ever make that a reality. Blair's appoitment as ME special envoy is just one example of the ridiculousness of it all.

Apologies for the cheap right wing jibe above. It was meant to be abit of sracstic wit, but came out all wrong. Moderation is critical here and if anything, you are right that my view 'extreme' in this instance. But my views don't matter really - its alot of hot air on a Internet site. Its much more concerning and crazy that those in power actually in power are even more 'extreme' in thier views and behaviours .... and the incidents of the last 10 days are just another example of that.
 
Taking the thread away from a more hostile stance, what you lot think needs to be done realistically to secure peace and stability in the region - coming from both sides?
 
Nucks said:
Regardless, having to manage your own political reality is a reality in and of itself.
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Political reality is something the stance the governments of Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Saudi or Iran try and maintain on this conflict. Its just a provisional stance given some breathing space they all should crawl out of the woodwork.
 
A Vatican official compared what is happening in Gaza to a concentration camp...fair play to him for having it in him to say it.

The Israeli Terrorists have dropped leaflets today telling the Palestinians that they are taking their illegal attacks to another level.

Basically, if you thought you were fecked before, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

I'm sure they will pound Gaza as much as possible until Obama comes in
 
Saturday, 10 January 2009: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7822049.stm


Israel warns Gaza of escalation


Israeli forces continue the ground and air assault on Gaza

Israel has dropped leaflets on the Gaza Strip warning residents that it is to escalate its military action. There is speculation the leaflets may mean Israel will adopt new tactics in its battle with Palestinian militants.

On Saturday, Israel attacked dozens of Hamas targets, including what it says were rocket-launching sites, weapons stores, and smuggling tunnels.

Leaflets and phone messages in Arabic urged Gaza residents to keep away from sites linked to Hamas, saying that the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) were not targeting Gazans but "Hamas and the terrorists only".

However medical staff in Gaza say more than 800 Palestinian civilians have died during the two-week offensive. 13 Israelis have been killed, most of them troops.

One phone message said "the third stage" of the operation would start soon. It is two weeks since air strikes on Gaza began. The ground attacks started a week ago.

Correspondents say phase three could see Israeli forces moving deeper into cities and refugee camps - that will involve new risks for Israeli soldiers and civilians in the Gaza Strip.

Rocket fire

In the bloodiest incident so far on Saturday, eight people who appeared to be civilians were killed when an Israeli tank shell hit a street in Jabaliya, Palestinian medical officials said.

Overnight, Israel said it launched more than 40 attacks on Hamas targets, and that more than 15 militants were killed.

These figures could not be independently confirmed. Israel is preventing international journalists from entering the coastal strip.

On the ground, Israeli troops are reported to have moved closer to the edge of Gaza City, though they have yet to go into the most densely populated areas.

Hamas fired more rockets at Israel, injuring two Israelis in the town of Ashkelon, the Israeli military said. It follows more than 30 missiles attacks from Gaza the previous day, it said.

The continued violence comes as rival Palestinian groups converged on Cairo for discussions about an Egyptian ceasefire initiative.

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas urged all sides to accept the proposal "without delay", after meeting Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak in Cairo.

But Mr Abbas - who heads the secular Fatah movement, bitter rivals of Hamas - does not control Gaza, and analysts say he will have little impact on the course of the conflict.

Egypt negotiated the last ceasefire between Hamas and Israel but, correspondents say, this conflict has strained an already difficult relationship between Cairo and Hamas.

Israel and Hamas have ignored a UN Security Council call for an immediate ceasefire that would lead to the withdrawal of Israeli troops.

Israel said the continued rocket attacks showed the resolution was "unworkable", while Hamas insisted any truce must include the ending of Israel's economic blockade of Gaza.

Aid agencies say Gaza's 1.5 million residents are in urgent need of food and medical aid.

The UN resumed aid distribution on Saturday after suspending operations on Thursday when it said the driver of one of its lorries was killed by Israeli fire.

The violence erupted as a six-month truce between Israel and Hamas unravelled in November and comes one month before a parliamentary election in Israel.
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Must say, awfully considerate of Israeli's to give advance warning that they are about to kill you. Must remember to remind Palestinains to send thank you notes.
 
Sam

"The problem here is that you can start your understanding from when the dispute started (Palestine suffering a forceful insertion of an invading population into a land that did not belong to them) or from where Israel now wants to move the debate (We are here now, please forget what rights you had and tolerate that we are living on land that we forcefully took from you)."

------------------------------------------------------------------------

You realise of course that by selecting your starting point here without accepting that, that shows prejudice, you are proving exactly the points I made on the understanding of history.

Or put it another way. How does the creation of Israel differ in action from the creation of other states in the region who then from a modern perspective ethnically cleared dissenters out, by the same brutal methods, which we now (modern thinking) find unacceptable.

Every nation or empire I have studied and there are too many to know everything about each one, was created by force continued through coercion and paid for by subjugation until such time as a greater force broke it up.

I guess those rules would apply to the creation of India as they seem to be fundamental and repeated through history just about everywhere since time began. The reason the British Empire is blamed for various issues around the world stem from its relatively recent demise the power vacuums it left behind and wishful thinking about what the world would have or could have been like without it.

This wishful thinking strikes me as being like the supporters who know that if a different team had been picked it would have won every game five nil. The team never gets picked so the incorrect thinking is never exposed.

The British Empire is now history and I won't hold you as a Brit any more responsible than a German/Russian/Frenchman for the various atrocities committed in those countries pasts. It makes no sense to and gets us no where. Yet many people and I think you are one are held prisoner by that past in the way you view the present as a way of righting those wrongs and judging others. It is a bit sad if I am honest.
 
BELAL BEDWAN, in Nuseirat refugee camp, central Gaza
From the BBC!

Belal says neither his house nor his uncle's is safe

The three hour ceasefire has been a big relief, but it's not the truce that we need. During yesterday's ceasefire I got some basic food supplies and cooking fuel from the market. It was crowded and the prices were high.
The second three-hour ceasefire has just started. I picked up a call from the Israelis on our landline today, it said: "We are the IDF: you have three hours to go and buy what you need."
This is the second call we've had, the first was at the start of the land war, then they said: "We will look after your humanitarian needs." But the fighting keeps taking place in civilian areas.
Just before you rang, there was a message over the loudhailer from the mosque. It said: "Civilians in Nuseirat camp, stay and support the fighters and don't let them down."
It went on: "We will deal with all the hypocrites who spread rumours against the resistance movement." It was a threat. We are caught between the two: Israel and the fighters.
Maybe in Israel leftists can demonstrate against the war, but we have no way of raising our voice to say "Don't fire rockets at Israel". If someone did, they might get killed for it.

I was watching a movie last night when I was disturbed by two rockets being launched [by Palestinians] from near my uncle's farm. I saw the lines of smoke rising from our land. These Palestinian rockets are very inaccurate and have landed on us in the past, too.
Then the Israelis targeted the farm - they have unmanned drones hovering above us day and night which may have spotted where the rockets came from. The Israeli weapons are very, very loud.

I don't know where is best to stay. There is a senior Hamas leader next to my house, but if we go to my uncle's, militants are near there too.
[Loud noise] That's an F16. It was flying so low! It wasn't firing, thank God, but it was to terrify us, for psychological impact. All the children who were playing on the roof have now come in.
 
CptMarvel said:
Palestine need to be given a workable state.
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How do you think that works? Are reparations involved? How does one quell the sense of deep injustice felt by the Palestinians? The obvious case study is South Africa but to achieve such things, major changes need to take place. As MikeUpNorth says, history needs to be taken out of the equation but in my experience, thats only possible when justice is administered.
 
sammsky1 said:
Wondered how long it would take for RedCafe's 'elite Right Wing' to turn up. Wheres your mate Frosty hiding? Have you taken his place in the 1st xi?
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I didn't realise I was right wing...

sammsky1 said:
How do you think that works? Are reparations involved? How does one quell the sense of deep injustice felt by the Palestinians? The obvious case study is South Africa but to achieve such things, major changes need to take place. As MikeUpNorth says, history needs to be taken out of the equation but in my experience, thats only possible when justice is administered.
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A state of the West Bank and the Gaza, with a connection between the two, and yes, reparations for the refugees and a large amount of aid for the state to be set up.
 
holyland red said:
http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/reports/Jeningrad_What_the_British_Media_Said.asp

I'd suggest not believing everything you hear/read on the news/newspapers.
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Well, the U.N. isn't a newspaper and it doesn't seem too happy about Israel bombing it's schools and killing it's employees. But I assume the U.N. has an anti-Israel agenda as well? Also, it would be easier to trust the media if Israel (and Egypt) actually gave them access to Gaza. The fact that they don't speaks volumes.
Civilians are killed in the conflict, which is regrettable, and could have been avoided but for the constant bombardment of South Israel in late December.
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Really? Israel doesn't share any of the responsibility for these deaths?
 
Big pro-Palestinian rally in London today.

10,000s have converged on the Israeli embassy where leading elements have attacked police. The Met is reported to have come under attack with fireworks, stones, coins and crowd control barriers.

Not to mention the now customary shoes.
 
I know this might strike the average Jewish person's tribal strings that wrong way, but it has to be said... so please stretch your imagination.


With the Jews heritage of being forced into ghettos for more than 1,500 years (Yes, I do know about Jewish history)...


Doesn't this latest effort to pen (cage) the Gazans into the southern corner of the Gaza Strip and then cleansing the region building-to-building with such thoroughness, as a bothersome scenario?


This might be a necessary evil, but we shall see in which the way the IDF carry out this advancement into the Gaza Strip and how the innocent are treated.
 
Frosty said:
I didn't realise I was right wing...



A state of the West Bank and the Gaza, with a connection between the two, and yes, reparations for the refugees and a large amount of aid for the state to be set up.
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So you think that they should get 90% of original palestine???
 
sammsky1 said:
How do you think that works? Are reparations involved? How does one quell the sense of deep injustice felt by the Palestinians? The obvious case study is South Africa but to achieve such things, major changes need to take place. As MikeUpNorth says, history needs to be taken out of the equation but in my experience, thats only possible when justice is administered.
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Yes reparations would have to be involved, and should be presented in the form of assistance with the building and formation of their new state, not in individual awards to Palestinians.

Time is the only way to quell the sense of injustice felt by Palestinians and it will take more than a generation of true independence to heal.

Unfortunately I can't see any of this happening, although the Palestinian demands are within the Iranians power to meet, the Iranians do not seem to recognise their culpability in the situation and as such are unlikely ever to back down.
 
ooeat0meoo said:
I know this might strike the average Jewish person's tribal strings that wrong way, but it has to be said... so please stretch your imagination.


With the Jews heritage of being forced into ghettos for more than 1,500 years (Yes, I do know about Jewish history)...


Doesn't this latest effort to pen (cage) the Gazans into the southern corner of the Gaza Strip and then cleansing the region building-to-building with such thoroughness, as a bothersome scenario?


This might be a necessary evil, but we shall see in which the way the IDF carry out this advancement into the Gaza Strip and how the innocent are treated.
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You didn't read the above post did you.
 
CptMarvel said:
Yes reparations would have to be involved, and should be presented in the form of assistance with the building and formation of their new state, not in individual awards to Palestinians.

Time is the only way to quell the sense of injustice felt by Palestinians and it will take more than a generation of true independence to heal.

Unfortunately I can't see any of this happening, although the Palestinian demands are within the Iranians power to meet, the Iranians do not seem to recognise their culpability in the situation and as such are unlikely ever to back down.
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Whats good for the goose....

How would you suggest the 845,000 Jews are compensated who were ethnically cleansed from the Arab countries in 1948?
 
Fearless said:
So you think that they should get 90% of original palestine???
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We have had this discussion repeatedly - you have made it clear that your two state solution involves Jordan and Israel. I disagree.

Now, the borders of the West Bank would still to be decided, and if both sides want to arrange land-swaps then they should by all means go ahead and do it. Equally, if the surrounding states are interested in peace with Israel, then in exchange for providing reparations for Palestinians then equally the Jewish refugees from Arab countries should be granted reparations.

This is a pragmatic viewpoint. Like the one-state solution, I simply cannot see your proposed solution ever coming into effect or leading to a lasting peace.
 
kuanteen said:
You write long posts but don't say much except about your past, your degrees, how good your own arguments are, and how evil Israel is.

If I remember correctly Sultan had a quote once about when anger sets in...

PS. Don't actually delude yourself that you're winning the argument in the eyes of neutral people because there are no neutral people besides the people who don't care. Otherwise, you're as entrenched and as fallacious as the side you're arguing against.
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Kuanteen,

It is unfortunate that you don't appreciate the full colour of Mr. Sam's experience and positions for something more than the usuall bias talking-point.


Now, if you expand your perspective beyond the average Brittish Field Mouse

af8e3a4243ecdc08



...you just might learn something.

*Expressed from the most helpful place in my heart.
 
"The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live."

IN THE MARCH 1976 issue of Falastin a-Thaura, then the official journal of the Beirut-based PLO, Mahmud Abbas ("Abu Mazen"), PLO spokesman.
 
Fearless said:
"The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live."

IN THE MARCH 1976 issue of Falastin a-Thaura, then the official journal of the Beirut-based PLO, Mahmud Abbas ("Abu Mazen"), PLO spokesman.
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I missed that issue... but thanks for pointing that out, Fearless.
 
Frosty said:
I didn't realise I was right wing...
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Sincere apology Frosty. It was an attempted sarcastic jibe that came out all wrong! Just we have enjoyed debates before with you and Mike coming at me from both sides and disagreed but had fun in the process. Sorry once again.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
You're kidding right? I'm not fit to lace Frosty's boots.

Probably the first time I've ever been called right wing too. Except for that season where they wouldn't let me play up front. Bastards.
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Many liberals are some down in support of this Israel massacre. (Sorry, killing this many kids turns it into a massacre) So, it's not quite fair to label those for right wing and against left wing.
 
Nucks said:
Regardless, having to manage your own political reality is a reality in and of itself.
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I'd actually like you to provide some links, because I hadn't heard that most Arab nations were supportive of Israel in this conflict.
 
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