Scores die in Israeli air strikes

Mozza said:
Israel couldn't control rocket fire with troops on the ground and all the technology of an advanced state, you expect Hamas to?

Did Israel stop arming itself during the ceasefire? The war on Gaza was months in the planning, Israel used the calm to prepare this war
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Israel doesn't have a government randomly firing mortars and rockets into Gaza trying to kill civilians. Nor does Israel have radical militant groups doing it.

Now, in case you say "YES THEY DO!". Don't be obtuse. If Israel really was, there would be hundreds of thousands of dead right now, not ~500 dead civilians and ~500 dead Hamas fighters/officials.
 
Mihajlovic said:
I think HR has explained it, if I remember correctly. The IAF bombed a tunnel used for smuggling weapons etc.
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No, that wasn't my response. There were two others though:

1. The ceasefire was broken 6 days after it had started (back in June I think), when the Palestinians launched rockets to Israel.

2. The purpose of the November incursion was to demolish a tunnel that was built towards the ISRAELI BORDER- not for weapon smuggling but to allow Hamas terrorists to cross the border and attack Israeli territory.
 
RedKaos said:
No one here has yet explained why Israel has broken the ceasefire on November 4th by killing 6 Palestinians.
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Tibs said:
They felt like it, they couldn't care less if they kill civilians.
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...civilians, civilians, civilians, civilians, civilians, civilians, civilians...You are just like those Brave Jews for Palestinians who are only interested in the truth, aren't you?

The Times

A five-month truce between Israel and the Islamist rulers of the Gaza Strip was foundering yesterday after Israeli special forces entered the besieged territory and fought Hamas militants, leaving six Palestinian fighters dead and four Israeli soldiers wounded.
 
Air raid siren sounds in northern Israel

Explosions heard in Kiryat Shmona, Upper Galilee. Rescue, security forces searching area for rocket landing sites; no injuries reported

Hagai Einav Published: 01.14.09, 08:42 / Israel News

An air raid siren sounded Wednesday morning in a number of Upper Galilee communities and in the northern Israeli city of Kiryat Shmona. The police reported that rockets may have landed in the area. There have been no reports of injuries so far.

The siren sounded at around 8:30 am. Kiryat Shmona residents reported of a cloud of an explosion smoke seen near the city and of blasts heard in the area.

Rescue and security forces have begun searching for landing sites of rockets fired from Lebanon.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3655815,00.html
 
Mozza said:
Israel couldn't control rocket fire with troops on the ground and all the technology of an advanced state, you expect Hamas to?
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Aren't you tired of that argument?

When Arafat was in charge we were told he couldn't control Hamas, and therefore we had to put up with exploding buses during "peace" negotiations. When Hamas won the elections following the Gaza withdrawal, we had to tolerate Al-Aqsa martyrs (Fatah) rocket fire from Gaza which you argued Hamas couldn't stop (you weren't even convinced when Hamas threw all Fatah men from roof tops when they did want to). Now you're repeating the same mantra that Hamas can't control PIJ terrorists.

Could it possibly be that you're wrong, and that the pattern we see is that of a Palestinian tactic of always keeping an "uncontrolled" element which allows them to continuously target Israeli civilians while at the same time claiming to be honouring agreements?
 
Ballache said:
:rolleyes: what the hell?? i mean im not Israels biggest fan but this is stupid!
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You'll probably be less of a fan if missiles are going to continue landing in Northern Israel from across the border.

This morning it's the second time in a week that missiles are firet at Israel from Lebanese territory. Of course, as in the case of the GS we'll soon learn that those firing can't be controlled by the Lebanese...
 
MikeUpNorth said:
Sorry in advance everyone for the long (and largely pointless) post, but I feel I need to respond.



I don't believe I have been abusive to you. Please show me the same courtesy.

But you are being a cnut

You linked to the page that I quoted from; I just reproduced what you wanted people to see. The reliability of sources is important, and conspiracy-nut, pseudo-academic wackjobs are not considered reliable by me. That was the point.

I wanted to show you that there was gas reserves, not to demonstate that there are people with alternative views, why you call them onspiracy-nut, pseudo-academic wackjobs is about the sum of you.

I assumed that you had provided the highest quality link you had. After looking at the source of the information, I dismissed it as unreliable. There is a certain reputation you have on this forum for posting nonsense, so you'll have to excuse me that I didn't spend too much time investigating the accuracy of the article you linked to. It's the old 'boy who cried wolf' dilemma I suppose. Maybe this time there was a wolf, but how was I to know after all the times you've shouted it before?

my nonsense reputation, is to the group on here who see them selves as an intellectual force,(which I think you are desperate to be a member) but really troll the forums promoting the status quo.


I don't refuse to believe that. I do think Hamas rockets were a large contributing factor to this latest conflict arising.

why, because the 'news said so?
yet there is a news blackout in Gaza by the Isrealis.
They wont let you see for yourself what is going on, but they will tell you their side..this is enough fo you then is it mike?


I don't think ethical trading runs against the belief systems of Judaism or Islam. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

You really think that ethical trading could prevail? for the short to medium term..IMPOSSIBLE, imho.



Thank you for posting some better links, it does seem they have a natural resource which can be exploited to help build an economy. If you'll recall my post though:

Do you honestly believe they will be around to build an economy?



It was intended as an invitation to inform me. Which you did try to do in some weird 'you don't understand the situation but this conspiracy-nut job does' kind of way.

you keep posting those same old comments....why?
Have you some kind of brush you wish to tar me with?

And also I didn't suggest they would need to rely on tourism, I instead suggested robust trade agreements are needed to help get them off the ground:
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you said they will have to rely on the good will of the Israelis..you are insulting those suffering and dying out there.
An Egyptian doctor has reported that there are a million people on the brink of starvation in Gaza. they have been living off bread but now have nothing.
this is adirect result of the trade restrictions put on them by the Isrealis in 2006.

the good will of the Isrealis...why not simply ask them to not believe in god any more?
hey here's a suggestion, why get the palestinians to change religion to jewish, then they can all live happily ever after?:rolleyes:

Are you a member of the Common Purpose charity,mike ?
 
Mozza said:
No because it is a perfectly valid statement
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Would it also be a perfectly valid statement saying that it's impossible to prove that Hamas ever breaks a ceasefire as long as their men wear a yellow rather than green headband when they fire a rocket at Israel? Do we have to believe Hamas and Mozza that it wasn't them?

 
ooeat0meoo said:
No, it doesn't make Canada evil, but you might find it more difficult to find Kosher salt on the shelves of the Canadian markets, from here on out.


The two things that it may reflect...

- Canada might not have the Jewish lobby that most countries have.

- Canada is now a country that shows more courage in speaking out about the brutal slaughter of children.
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ffs :D
 
holyland red said:
Would it also be a perfectly valid statement saying that it's impossible to prove that Hamas ever breaks a ceasefire as long as their men wear a yellow rather than green headband when they fire a rocket at Israel? Do we have to believe Hamas and Mozza that it wasn't them?

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Rocket fire went from 170 per month to 3 per month after the ceasefire started, when Hamas say they'll hold one they do
 
Bob said:
Breaking News: CNN has comfirmed that the IDF have been using the illegal agent 'white phosphorus' on the Palestinian people. While it is not an internation crime to use this chemical, it is illegal to use it on enemy combatants or densly populated areas.
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The International Red Cross said Tuesday that Israel has fired white phosphorus shells in its offensive in the Gaza Strip, but has no evidence to suggest it is being used improperly or illegally.

The comments came after a human rights organization accused the Jewish state of using the incendiary agent, which ignites when it strikes the skin and burns straight through or until it is cut off from oxygen. It can cause horrific injuries.

The International Committee of the Red Cross urged Israel to exercise "extreme caution" in using the incendiary agent, which is used to illuminate targets at night or create a smoke screen for day attacks, said Peter Herby, the head of the organization's mines-arms unit.

"In some of the strikes in Gaza it's pretty clear that phosphorus was used," Herby told The Associated Press. "But it's not very unusual to use phosphorus to create smoke or illuminate a target. We have no evidence to suggest it's being used in any other way."

___________________________________

I suggest people take all reports with a pinch of salt until more evidence emerges, rather than accepting what either Hamas, the IDF or the UN says *coughJenincough*. Of course, it may be Israel has brought this on itself this time by not letting journalists in.
 
Except they do, which is why when it was three rockets a day they were satisfied with tit-for-tat responses, but when it got to fifty or sixty a day, they launched a full-scale invasion.

Just like we would if the IRA hit mainland towns with 50 or 60 rockets a day, however crap the rockets. Just like we did, with many more casualties, in Iraq with no provocation whatsoever.
 
rockets2008.jpg


These are the official numbers showing that ~40 rockets and mortar bombs were fired at Israel during the so-called "truce" and prior to the November 4th IDF incursion for blowing up a tunnel.

None of these attacks were followed by an Israeli tit-for-tat armed response.
 
holyland red said:
These are the official numbers showing that ~40 rockets and mortar bombs were fired at Israel during the so-called "truce" and prior to the November 4th IDF incursion for blowing up a tunnel.
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Yeah, but we can't prove they were fired by Hamas so that's ok. The Hamas governed Gaza strip can fire as many rockets as they like, as long as we can't prove who fired them.
 
Amir said:
Yeah, but we can't prove they were fired by Hamas so that's ok. The Hamas governed Gaza strip can fire as many rockets as they like, as long as we can't prove who fired them.
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George Bush fired them to turn the world against Arabs.
 
holyland red said:
rockets2008.jpg


These are the official numbers showing that ~40 rockets and mortar bombs were fired at Israel during the so-called "truce" and prior to the November 4th IDF incursion for blowing up a tunnel.

None of these attacks were followed by an Israeli tit-for-tat armed response.
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The blockade, it imprisoned 1.5 million, it kills by denying medicine and adequate supplies to people, it also destroys their futures reducing the people to a life on the breadline.
 
Mozza said:
The blockade, it imprisoned 1.5 million, it kills by denying medicine and adequate supplies to people, it also destroys their futures reducing the people to a life on the breadline.
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Mozza I think you are the most boring poster in this thread.
 
Amir said:
Yeah, but we can't prove they were fired by Hamas so that's ok. The Hamas governed Gaza strip can fire as many rockets as they like, as long as we can't prove who fired them.
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God forbid one would blame the Hamas when in reality it was the Islamic Jihad!!! ;)
 
Mozza said:
The blockade, it imprisoned 1.5 million, it kills by denying medicine and adequate supplies to people, it also destroys their futures reducing the people to a life on the breadline.
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Mihajlovic said:
Mozza I think you are the most boring poster in this thread.
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Boring or not it's true. Impartial observers have to be horrified by this.
 
Mozza said:
The blockade, it imprisoned 1.5 million, it kills by denying medicine and adequate supplies to people, it also destroys their futures reducing the people to a life on the breadline.
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Gaza Rockets Again Break Hamas Truce Pledge
By MARK LAVIE, Associated Press | June 26, 2008

JERUSALEM Gaza militants fired two rockets into southern Israel today, further straining a shaky, week-old truce as Israel kept vital Gaza border crossings closed in response.

The rocket attack, the second since the cease-fire took effect, led to a call for retaliation by Israel's Foreign Minister while Palestinian Arabs charged that the continued closure of crossings violated terms of the cease-fire...

...Israel had significantly increased the amount of supplies flowing into Gaza on Sunday, in accordance with the truce agreement, and was ready for another increase next Sunday. But the rocket attack stopped the process. Now Israel is considering counting three days from each reopening of the crossings before it reinstates the original increase.
 
holyland red said:
Gaza Rockets Again Break Hamas Truce Pledge
By MARK LAVIE, Associated Press | June 26, 2008

JERUSALEM Gaza militants fired two rockets into southern Israel today, further straining a shaky, week-old truce as Israel kept vital Gaza border crossings closed in response.

The rocket attack, the second since the cease-fire took effect, led to a call for retaliation by Israel's Foreign Minister while Palestinian Arabs charged that the continued closure of crossings violated terms of the cease-fire...

...Israel had significantly increased the amount of supplies flowing into Gaza on Sunday, in accordance with the truce agreement, and was ready for another increase next Sunday. But the rocket attack stopped the process. Now Israel is considering counting three days from each reopening of the crossings before it reinstates the original increase.
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Feeding prisoners a little better is not the same as ending the blockade
 
Plechazunga said:
The International Red Cross said Tuesday that Israel has fired white phosphorus shells in its offensive in the Gaza Strip, but has no evidence to suggest it is being used improperly or illegally.

The comments came after a human rights organization accused the Jewish state of using the incendiary agent, which ignites when it strikes the skin and burns straight through or until it is cut off from oxygen. It can cause horrific injuries.

The International Committee of the Red Cross urged Israel to exercise "extreme caution" in using the incendiary agent, which is used to illuminate targets at night or create a smoke screen for day attacks, said Peter Herby, the head of the organization's mines-arms unit.

"In some of the strikes in Gaza it's pretty clear that phosphorus was used," Herby told The Associated Press. "But it's not very unusual to use phosphorus to create smoke or illuminate a target. We have no evidence to suggest it's being used in any other way."

___________________________________

I suggest people take all reports with a pinch of salt until more evidence emerges, rather than accepting what either Hamas, the IDF or the UN says *coughJenincough*. Of course, it may be Israel has brought this on itself this time by not letting journalists in.
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I said this is how the IDF was using it several pages back.
 
If rockets are being fired from your country, you are responsible for it and you are responsible for stopping it.

If you are unable to stop or control it, you are not in control of the country. You have no right being in power. You are a danger to your neighbors and your neighbors have every right to kick in the door and stop it themselves.

What lengths did Hamas go to, to stop the allegedly "non-hamas" rocketeers during the cease fire. I bet there was an extensive investigation /nod.

Hamas is a failed government. It is being sorted out right now.
 
Nucks said:
If rockets are being fired from your country, you are responsible for it and you are responsible for stopping it.

If you are unable to stop or control it, you are not in control of the country. You have no right being in power. You are a danger to your neighbors and your neighbors have every right to kick in the door and stop it themselves.

What lengths did Hamas go to, to stop the allegedly "non-hamas" rocketeers during the cease fire. I bet there was an extensive investigation /nod.

Hamas is a failed government. It is being sorted out right now.
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Hamas is not a failed government since it's never been in a position to govern Palestine despite winning the election, the blockade became total in Gaza, Fatah grabbed power in the West bank.
 
holyland red said:
You'll probably be less of a fan if missiles are going to continue landing in Northern Israel from across the border.

This morning it's the second time in a week that missiles are firet at Israel from Lebanese territory. Of course, as in the case of the GS we'll soon learn that those firing can't be controlled by the Lebanese...
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just saw it on the news, doubt you lot will do anything about it now.
 
Mozza said:
Hamas is not a failed government since it's never been in a position to govern Palestine despite winning the election, the blockade became total in Gaza, Fatah grabbed power in the West bank.
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Lucky for Gaza then in the long run.

You might want to see just how Hamas run things and treat Muslims .

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PvEDj7MweBs
 
Nistelrooy10 said:
6000 casualties so far, most of them children, 1000 dead. shame
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Its probably alot more, the Israelis arent letting any press into Gaza so its hard to tell if the figures being given are accurate. I also reckon alot more Israeli soldiers have been killed.
 
I don’t post here very often but I come here to read every day. Despite being “only” a football forum, this is the best of all forums (fora?) in the cyberspace, and this very thread proves it. Best as in most entertaining, informed, interesting, open.
I felt like writing this.

Now somebody please call me “stupid Italian cnut”: I don’t want it to get too maudlin.

Sorry for interrupting. Regards.
 
RedKaos said:
Its probably alot more, the Israelis arent letting any press into Gaza so its hard to tell if the figures being given are accurate. I also reckon alot more Israeli soldiers have been killed.
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The figures I saw last, a couple days ago were 960 deal, half of them were civilians. This was from a Palestinian source inside of Gaza.
 
Mozza said:
55% of the population of the strip is under 18
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I'm not questioning the fact that the population has a large youth demographic. I'm seriously questioning both those figures.

A report from CNN puts the death toll at 971 of which 311 were children. This is from a reporter in Gaza City it seems from the by line.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/13/israel.gaza/index.html

This AP writer in Egypt put the death toll at over 1000.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=6641908

EDIT: I reread the post with the figures. I was reading it as 6000 dead, my apologies.
 
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