Scores die in Israeli air strikes

Rooney gr8 said:
you said they will have to rely on the good will of the Israelis..you are insulting those suffering and dying out there.
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It was not meant to be in any way insulting. I think it is pretty clear that if Israel doesn't want a Palestinian state to succeed, either politically or economically, then it won't succeed. Hence the Palestinians are to some degree reliant on their good will.

Rooney gr8 said:
the good will of the Isrealis...why not simply ask them to not believe in god any more?
hey here's a suggestion, why get the palestinians to change religion to jewish, then they can all live happily ever after?:rolleyes:
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I still don't understand the point you're trying to make? I'm not asking anyone to change religion or drop their belief in a god in order to solve the conflict?

I don't think everyone has to have the same view on the nature of the universe/god to be able to forge viable political and economic relationships. It seems you do?

Rooney gr8 said:
Are you a member of the Common Purpose charity,mike ?
Click to expand...

No.
 
Red-Wedge said:
I don’t post here very often but I come here to read every day. Despite being “only” a football forum, this is the best of all forums (fora?) in the cyberspace, and this very thread proves it. Best as in most entertaining, informed, interesting, open.
I felt like writing this.

Now somebody please call me “stupid Italian cnut”: I don’t want it to get too maudlin.

Sorry for interrupting. Regards.
Click to expand...

Agreed and welcome. The UFC of forums.
 
Red-Wedge said:
I don’t post here very often but I come here to read every day. Despite being “only” a football forum, this is the best of all forums (fora?) in the cyberspace, and this very thread proves it. Best as in most entertaining, informed, interesting, open.
I felt like writing this.

Now somebody please call me “stupid Italian cnut”: I don’t want it to get too maudlin.

Sorry for interrupting. Regards.
Click to expand...



Welcome Red Wedge.


Most of the conversations are more civil than this thread.


__________________________________

My most sincere apologies to my two friends Plech and Holyland for my inability to respond, life keeps me from the computer, lately. (I'll be able to play in a couple days)


In short...

Prof. Plech,

Could you please cite those referrences to the IRC with a link, please?

From here on out, I will do my best to return the favour.

____________________

Holyland...

Really!? A graph of the rockets launched by Hamas? You can't be serious?!

We all know that Hamas is launching rockets into Israel, nobody is debating that they aren't. Nobody is praising or denying the increase in rocket attacks, as of late.

Strange thing is... I was thinking, this morning (prior to my seeing your graph), it might bring some context to the world outrage of the harsh response by the Israeli government if there were a graph comparing the bombs of Hamas to that of the IDF response, throughout the years.

Truthfully, it would dwarf the size of the Hamas attacks, wouldn't you say?

For that matter, let's try and find a graph of women and children victims from both sides. What might that look like?

Not to suggest that the Hamas attacks are justified, at all. Thought I'd best head that one off at the pass, as I know you would attempt to suggest I'm favouring the terrorists.

I want a true account of the brutality from both sides. When we see the real numbers, we can make a fair jugdement.
 
Sad. How I wish this will happen.

birmag.gif
 
Likewise, caught up in the land of work right now but weekend approaching and have lots of things still bugging me on this :devil:
 
It now seems like the Turks have shown interest in this invasion and Israel will soon be left with no choice but to stop this massacre.
 
A fecking modren Travesty!
300 children dead since this massacre started..
27/12/2008 Ibtihal Kechko Girl 10
Ahmed Riad Mohammed Al-Sinwar Boy 3
Ahmed Al-Homs Boy 18
Ahmed Rasmi Abu Jazar Boy 16
Ahmed Sameeh Al-Halabi Boy 18
Tamer Hassan Al-Akhrass Boy 5
Hassan Ali Al-Akhrass Boy 3
Haneen Wael Mohammed Daban Girl 15
Khaled Sami Al-Astal Boy 15
alaat Mokhless Bassal Boy 18
Aaed Imad Kheera Boy 14
Abdullah Al-Rayess Boy 17
Odai Hakeem Al-Mansi Boy 4
Allam Nehrou Idriss Boy 18
Ali Marwan Abu Rabih Boy 18
Anan Saber Atiyah Boy 13
Camelia Al-Bardini Girl 10
Lama Talal Hamdan Girl 10
Mohammed Jaber Howeij Boy 17
Nimr Mustafa Amoom Boy 10
29/12/2008 Ismail Talal Hamdan Boy 10
Ahmed Ziad Al-Absi Boy 14
Ahmed Youssef Khello Boy 18
Ikram Anwar Baaloosha Girl 14
Tahrier Anwar Baaloosha Girl 17
Jihad Saleh Ghobn Boy 10
Jawaher Anwar Baaloosha Girl 8
Dina Anwar Baaloosha Girl 7
Samar Anwar Baaloosha Girl 6
Shady Youssef Ghobn Boy 12
Sudqi Ziad Al-Absi Boy 3
Imad Nabeel Abou Khater Boy 16
Lina Anwar Baaloosha Girl 7
Mohammed Basseel Madi Boy 17
Mohammed Jalal Abou Tair Boy 18
Mohammed Ziad Al-Absi Boy 14
Mahmoud Nabeel Ghabayen Boy 15
Moaz Yasser Abou Tair Boy 6
Wissam Akram Eid Girl 14
30/12/2008 Haya Talal Hamdan Girl 8
31/12/2008 Ahmed Kanouh Boy 10
Ameen Al-Zarbatlee Boy 10
Mohammed Nafez Mohaissen Boy 10
Mustafa Abou Ghanimah Boy 16
Yehya Awnee Mohaissen Boy 10
Ossman Bin Zaid Nizar Rayyan Boy 3
Assaad Nizar Rayyan Boy 2
Moaz-Uldeen Allah Al-Nasla Boy 5
Aya Nizar Rayyan Girl 12
Halima Nizar Rayyan Girl 5
Reem Nizar Rayyan Boy 4
Aicha Nizar Rayyan Girl 3
Abdul Rahman Nizar Rayyan Boy 6
Abdul Qader Nizar Rayyan Boy 12
Oyoon Jihad Al-Nasla Girl 16
Mahmoud Mustafa Ashour Boy 13
Maryam Nizar Rayyan Girl 5
01/01/2009 Hamada Ibrahim Mousabbah Boy 10
Zeinab Nizar Rayyan Girl 12
Sujud Mahmoud Al-Derdesawi Girl 10
Abdul Sattar Waleed Al-Astal Boy 12
Abed Rabbo Iyyad Abed Rabbo Al-Astal Boy 10
Ghassan Nizar Rayyan Boy 15
Christine Wadih El-Turk Boy 6
Mohammed Mousabbah Boy 14
Mohammed Iyad Abed Rabbo Al-Astal Boy 13
Mahmoud Samsoom Boy 16
Ahmed Tobail Boy 16
Ahmed Sameeh Al-Kafarneh Boy 17
Hassan Hejjo Boy 14
Rajeh Ziadeh Boy 18
Shareef Abdul Mota Armeelat Boy 15
Mohammed Moussa Al-Silawi Boy 10
Mahmoud Majed Mahmoud Abou Nahel Boy 16
Mohannad Al-Tatnaneeh Boy 18
Hani Mohammed Al-Silawi Boy 10
01/01/2009 Ahmed Al-Meshharawi Boy 16
Ahmed Khodair Sobaih Boy 17
Ahmed Sameeh Al-Kafarneh Boy 18
Asraa Kossai Al-Habash Girl 10
Assad Khaled Al-Meshharawi Boy 17
Asmaa Ibrahim Afana Girl 12
Ismail Abdullah Abou Sneima Boy 4
Akram Ziad Al-Nemr Boy 18
Aya Ziad Al-Nemr Girl 8
Ahmed Mohammed Al-Adham Boy 1
Akram Ziad Al-Nemr Boy 13
Hamza Zuhair Tantish Boy 12
Khalil Mohammed Mokdad Boy 18
Ruba Mohammed Fadl Abou-Rass Girl 13
Ziad Mohammed Salma Abou Sneima Boy 9
Shaza Al-Abed Al-Habash Girl 16
Abed Ziad Al-Nemr Boy 12
Attia Rushdi Al-Khawli Boy 16
Luay Yahya Abou Haleema Boy 17
Mohammed Akram Abou Harbeed Boy 18
Mohammed Abed Berbekh Boy 18
Mohammed Faraj Hassouna Boy 16
Mahmoud Khalil Al-Mashharawi Boy 12
Mahmoud Zahir Tantish Boy 17
Mahmoud Sami Assliya Boy 3
Moussa Youssef Berbekh Boy 16
Wi'am Jamal Al-Kafarneh Girl 2
Wadih Ayman Omar Boy 4
Youssef Abed Berbekh Boy 10
05/01/2009 Ibrahim Rouhee Akl Boy 17
Ibrahim Abdullah Merjan Boy 13
Ahmed Attiyah Al-Semouni Boy 4
Aya Youssef Al-Defdah Girl 13
Aya Al-Sersawi Girl 5
Ahmed Amer Abou Eisha Boy 5
Ameen Attiyah Al-Semouni Boy 4
Hazem Alewa Boy 8
Khalil Mohammed Helless Boy 12
Diana Mosbah Saad Girl 17
Raya Al-Sersawi Girl 5
Rahma Mohammed Al-Semouni Girl 18
Ramadan Ali Felfel Boy 14
Rahaf Ahmed Saeed Al-Azaar Girl 4
Shahad Mohammed Hijjih Girl 3
Arafat Mohammed Abdul Dayem Boy 10
Omar Mahmoud Al-Baradei Boy 12
Ghaydaa Amer Abou Eisha Girl 6
Fathiyya Ayman Al-Dabari Girl 4
Faraj Ammar Al-Helou Boy 2
Moumen Alewah Boy 9
Moumen Mahmoud Talal Alaw Boy 10
Mohammed Amer Abu Eisha Boy 8
Mahmoud Mohammed Abu Kamar Boy 15
Marwan Hein Kodeih Girl 6
Montasser Alewah Boy 12
Naji Nidal Al-Hamlawi Boy 16
Nada Redwan Mardi Girl 5
Hanadi Bassem Khaleefa Girl 13
06/01/2009 Ibrahim Ahmed Maarouf Boy 14
Ahmed Shaher Khodeir Boy 14
Ismail Adnan Hweilah Boy 15
Aseel Moeen Deeb Boy 17
Adam Mamoun Al-Kurdee Boy 3
Alaa Iyad Al-Daya Girl 8
Areej Mohammed Al-Daya Girl 3 months
Amani Mohammed Al-Daya Girl 4
Baraa Ramez Al-Daya Girl 2
Bilal Hamza Obaid Boy 15
Thaer Shaker Karmout Boy 17
Hozaifa Jihad Al-Kahloot Boy 17
Khitam Iyad Al-Daya Girl 9
Rafik Abdul Basset Al-Khodari Boy 15
Raneen Abdullah saleh Girl 12
Zakariya Yahya Al-Taweel Boy 5
Sahar Hatem Dawood Girl 10
Salsabeel Ramez Al-Daya Girl 6 months
Sharafuldeen Iyad Al-Daya Boy 7
Doha Mohammed Al-Daya Girl 5
Ahed Iyad Kodas Boy 15
Abdullah Mohammed Abdullah Boy 10
Issam Sameer Deeb Boy 12
Alaa Ismail Ismail Boy 18
Ali Iyad Al-Daya Boy 10
Imad Abu Askar Boy 18
Filasteen Al-Daya Girl 5
Kamar Mohammed Al-Daya Boy 3
Lina Abdul Menem Hassan Girl 10
Unidentified Boy 9
Unidentified Boy 15
Mohammed Iyad Al-Daya Boy 6
Mohammed Bassem Shakoura Boy 10
Mohammed Bassem Eid Boy 18
Mohammed Deeb Boy 17
Mohammed Eid Boy 18
Mustafa Moeen Deeb Boy 12
Noor Moeen Deeb Boy 2
Youssef Saad Al-Kahloot Boy 17
Youssef Mohammed Al-Daya Boy 1
07/01/2009 Ibrahim Kamal Awaja Boy 9
Ahmed Jaber Howeij Boy 7
Ahmed Fawzi Labad Boy 18
Ayman Al-Bayed Boy 16
Amal Khaled Abed Rabbo Girl 3
Toufic Khaled Al-Khahloot Boy 10
Habeeb Khaled Al-Khahloot Boy 12
Houssam Raed Sobeh Boy 12
Hassan Rateb Semaan Boy 18
Hassan Ata Hassan Azzam Boy 2
Redwan Mohammed Ashoor Boy 10
Suad Khaled Abed Rabbo Girl 6
Samar Khaled Abed Rabbo Girl 2
Abdul Rahman Mohammmed Ashoor Boy 12
Fareed Ata Hassan Azzam Boy 13
Mohammed Khaled Al-Kahloot Boy 15
Mohammed Samir Hijji Boy 16
Mohammed Fareed Al-Maasawabi Boy 16
Mohammed Moeen Deeb Boy 17
Mohammed Nasseem Salama Saba Boy 16
Mahmoud Hameed Boy 17
Hamam Issa Boy 1
08/01/2009 Anas Arif Abou Baraka Boy 7
Ibrahim Akram Abou Dakkka Boy 12
Ibrahim Moeen Jiha Boy 15
Baraa Iyad Shalha Girl 6
Basma Yasser Al-Jeblawi Girl 5
Shahd Saad Abou Haleema Girl 15
Azmi Diab Boy 16
Mohammed Akram Abou Dakka Boy 14
Mohammed Hikmat Abou Haleema Boy 17
Ibrahim Moeen Jiha Boy 15
Matar Saad Abou Haleema Boy 17
09/01/2009 Ahmed Ibrahim Abou Kleik Boy 17
Ismail Ayman Yasseen Boy 18
Alaa Ahmed Jaber Girl 11
Baha-Uldeen Fayez Salha Girl 5
Rana Fayez Salha Girl 12
Rola Fayez Salha Girl 13
Diyaa-Uldeen Fayez Salah Boy 14
Ghanima Sultan Halawa Girl 11
Fatima Raed Jadullah Girl 10
Mohammed Atef Abou Al-Hussna Boy 15

source
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/200911591418168902.html
 
Fearless said:
Rubbish.

Name me just ONE other country that would have it's towns missiled everyday and do bugger all?


Thought so.
Click to expand...

the England in the 80's off the IRA if they had them, if international terrors hadnt told them to stop now..

we would have just stepped up our alertness.
and obviously framed several innocent Irish folk..
England would never act in the way the Israelis are doing now..the whole world condems these actions, but yet they still go on and on!
 
MikeUpNorth said:
It was not meant to be in any way insulting. I think it is pretty clear that if Israel doesn't want a Palestinian state to succeed, either politically or economically, then it won't succeed. Hence the Palestinians are to some degree reliant on their good will.



I still don't understand the point you're trying to make? I'm not asking anyone to change religion or drop their belief in a god in order to solve the conflict?

I don't think everyone has to have the same view on the nature of the universe/god to be able to forge viable political and economic relationships. It seems you do?



No.
Click to expand...

good will? this is the statment which has angered me most mike!

what good will? they are commiting genocide there..good will?

they have been starving them through sanctions..good will?

why not state the truth, that the palestinians are fecked, NO HOPE WHAT SO EVER!!!

the world looks away.

The media machine talk as though there is some batle going on.. why wont they say massacre?


so ultimately, the only thing they have is their beliefs, now do you get my point?
(I was being facetious,you said they rely on the good will of the Israelis, i said you may as well ask them to not belive in god,ie the chances are the same.. less than none)
 
Some sort of falafel embargo perhaps?
 
But are you self sufficient in chickpeas? The countries that control the raw materials hold the power.
 
A related story...I mean, not directly related to falafel but nevertheless...

US asks Israel to stop importing pistachio from Iran

Washington displeased with nuts smuggled to Turkey from Tehran and imported to Jewish state

Itamar Eichner Published: 11.21.07, 10:04 / Israel Money

US Undersecretary of Agriculture Mark Keenum demanded Monday that the Israeli import from Turkey of pistachio nuts originating in Iran be halted immediately, Yedioth Ahronoth has learned.

The US undersecretary met with Israeli Agriculture Minister Shalom Simhon in Rome during a conference organized by the International Food and Agricultural Organization.

The Israeli embassy in Italy reported to the Foreign Ministry in Jerusalem that the Americans are working to stop the export of Iranian pistachio nuts as part of the economic sanctions imposed on the Islamic republic.
 
1105 confirmed to be dead. Good job Israel! Keep em coming and you might beat that Lebanese record..or is it already broken?
 
Mihajlovic said:
Haven't the Turks got enough of their own problems to sort out?
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They have the Kurds under control. If they make Gaza their problem then Israel is finished.

holyland red said:
:confused:
Click to expand...

What did you not understand?

Fearless said:
Iraq.
Click to expand...

Yes. But that is a very different story as we were fed lies by the Americans.

If you want to compare the situation compare it with that of the IRA. Look at the approach we took to establish todays peace.

No good can come of this war Israel have started because violence always creates more problems than it solves. (Transporter 3 quote).
 
atom smasher said:
If you want to compare the situation compare it with that of the IRA. Look at the approach we took to establish todays peace.
Click to expand...

Really poor analogy. Hamas is part and parcel of a global jihadist movement that insists all of Israel becomes an Islamic caliph.
 
Fearless said:
Really poor analogy. Hamas is part and parcel of a global jihadist movement that insists all of Israel becomes an Islamic caliph.
Click to expand...

Yes and it's actions were the same as those of the IRA. Bombings. That is what terrorist are limited to.
 
atom smasher said:
Yes. But that is a very different story as we were fed lies by the Americans.
Click to expand...

Updated: 20th December 2007
Casualty data analysed to: November 2007
Duration of war: 4 years, 8 months
Estimates of violent civilian deaths:
78,280 - 95,817[/B]
Estimates of total excess Iraqi deaths:
392,979 - 1,131,831

Number of Iraqi missiles pounding London: ZERO
 
Fearless said:
Updated: 20th December 2007
Casualty data analysed to: November 2007
Duration of war: 4 years, 8 months
Estimates of violent civilian deaths:
78,280 - 95,817[/B]
Estimates of total excess Iraqi deaths:
392,979 - 1,131,831

Number of Iraqi missiles pounding London: ZERO
Click to expand...


I do not approve of this war or any militarized conflict. I still stand by my opinion that the Americans lied not only to us but to the whole world. This war was about oil.

Mihajlovic said:
And you seriously believe Turkey would even consider 'making Gaza their problem'?
Click to expand...

"I am especially avoiding giving specific country names. But everybody is guessing who these countries are. Therefore from now on Israel should not see a green light from any countries. All the lights it sees should be red," he said when asked whether he was referring to the United States.

"The death toll of civilians has exceeded a thousand so far. All these developments imply that some countries should now take action. We have already launched some initiatives to this end. Our delegations are currently in Cairo, Egypt, in search for an immediate ceasefire in the region," he was quoted by Anatolian Agency as saying.
Click to expand...

Quote of Turkish foreign minister.
 
The Kurds - a people with their own language, culture and history - have far more right to a homeland than the Palestinians.

Yet you use their harsh oppression by Turkey as some kind of stick to threaten Israel with.

Sad.
 
atom smasher said:
You think they won't make it their problem or that Israel can defy them?
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1. If I were Mr. Arduan I'd do my best to control the inner radical islamist in me. I don't think the Turkish army chiefs would be thrilled at his outbursts.

2. The harsh reality of the Palestinians is that nobody cares about them. Nobody ever did. I hope they come to their senses and understand that peace is the way forward, and not expecting help from regional powers. They tried that in 1948 and ended up crowded in refugee camps.

3. Turkey can inflict no direct damage on Israel. The days of the Ottoman Empire are long gone.
 
Fearless said:
The Kurds - a people with their own language, culture and history - have far more right to a homeland than the Palestinians.

Yet you use their harsh oppression by Turkey as some kind of stick to threaten Israel with.

Sad.
Click to expand...

You're getting ahead of yourself. I highlighted that as one of Turkey's problems, not to threat Israel.

holyland red said:
1. If I were Mr. Arduan I'd do my best to control the inner radical islamist in me. I don't think the Turkish army chiefs would be thrilled at his outbursts.

2. The harsh reality of the Palestinians is that nobody cares about them. Nobody ever did. I hope they come to their senses and understand that peace is the way forward, and not expecting help from regional powers. They tried that in 1948 and ended up crowded in refugee camps.

3. Turkey can inflict no direct damage on Israel. The days of the Ottoman Empire are long gone.
Click to expand...

2. And Israel is achieving peace by making war :wenger:

3. Turkey has one of the largest and powerful armies (not to say THE most powerful) in the world. You're deluded if you think it wouldn't inflict any damage on Israel upon attack.
 
atom smasher said:
Turkey has one of the largest and powerful armies (not to say THE most powerful) in the world. You're deluded if you think it wouldn't inflict any damage on Israel upon attack.
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You're getting ahead of yourself.

Turkey is just grandstanding and has as much love for the Arabs as Israel does.

Besides, Israel trains Turkeys airforce.
 
atom smasher said:
3. Turkey has one of the largest and powerful armies (not to say THE most powerful) in the world. You're deluded if you think it wouldn't inflict any damage on Israel upon attack.
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:lol:

I'm going to go ahead and guess you're Turkish, right?
 
atom smasher said:
2. And Israel is achieving peace by making war :wenger:

3. Turkey has one of the largest and powerful armies (not to say THE most powerful) in the world. You're deluded if you think it wouldn't inflict any damage on Israel upon attack.
Click to expand...

How exactly would Turkey attack Israel? Why would it possibly want to do that? What are you on about? You sound like a kid arguing with friends who's dad is the strongest.

The worst Turkey could do from Israel's perspective would be if they became an Iranian ally, but Turkey has interests other than making their support of human suffering in Gaza heard. I'm not sure the US would be very supportive, and trying to enter the EU doesn't mix well with hugging Ahmedinejad.

Arduan has been behaving like a twat lately, but I think even he understands which side of the current Arab divide he better align with. He has Iran, Syria, Hizballah and Hamas on one side, and the rest on the other. It's nice of him trying to make Turkey look like a regional power by trying to broker deals, but don't mistake his frustration at failing to get any results as an indication for joining ranks with the nutters.
 
Oranje said:
:lol:

I'm going to go ahead and guess you're Turkish, right?
Click to expand...

No.

holyland red said:
How exactly would Turkey attack Israel? Why would it possibly want to do that? What are you on about? You sound like a kid arguing with friends who's dad is the strongest.

The worst Turkey could do from Israel's perspective would be if they became an Iranian ally, but Turkey has interests other than making their support of human suffering in Gaza heard. I'm not sure the US would be very supportive, and trying to enter the EU doesn't mix well with hugging Ahmedinejad.

Arduan has been behaving like a twat lately, but I think even he understands which side of the current Arab divide he better align with. He has Iran, Syria, Hizballah and Hamas on one side, and the rest on the other. It's nice of him trying to make Turkey look like a regional power by trying to broker deals, but don't mistake his frustration at failing to get any results as an indication for joining ranks with the nutters.
Click to expand...

Funny you say that word. Yet it's Israel who is responsible for the deaths of more than 300 children. I expect you to defend your country's actions, for you too are a victim of your governments propaganda.
 
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