They're just interested in the subject. No threats made as of yet.
Scores die in Israeli air strikes
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I think you might a little too dramatic there atom, every nation is "interested in the subject", but that doesnt mean everyone is suddenly going to bomb Israel to the ground. The Turks dont particularly like Arabs either.
Im not saying they will bomb them to the ground but they could threaten them in order to achieve the ceasefire.
It isn't
And why is that?
And Israel is the Arab world's Al Qaeda, we're going in circles here.
It is the equivalent of the ANC
If you really think that, then you are in a wierd circle of your own.
He's right though. Different people, different perspectives.
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree then. I don't think the situation is beyond hope; I am probably an optimist by nature.
If you really think that, then you are in a wierd circle of your own.
Nope, ever heard the quote "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter".
Which is really the bottom line of this thread. It's hardly as if anyone has changed his mind even by a bit.
Hamas has made a U-turn and is now rejecting the egyption ceasefire offer on the table (its conditions are, apparently, pretty bad for them). But Israel's likely to confirm a one-sided temporary ceasefire tomorrow, based on guarentees from Egypt and the United States that include prevention of smuggling weapons into the Gaza strip, and also belief Hamas would stop firing because they are desperate to end this, even if they won't sign anything. Israeli forces, however, will remain in the Gaza strip for a while until we know the ceasefire is indeed held.
In the last 20-odd years, including 2 Intifadas and the current war, about 7-8,000 Palestinians have been killed. In that time more than 31,000 Muslims have been killed in Kashmir (human rights groups say 84,000 according to Wikipedia); anywhere between 50,000 and 150,000 are thought to have been killed in Iraq since 2003; the Russians are reckoned to have killed 1-200,000 Muslims in Chechnya; and over 400,000 people, mostly Muslims, have been killed in Darfur since 2003.
Every civilian death is horrific. Like you I wish the Israelis would stop fighting now. But for god's sake grow up.
Yes and I really like that saying. Too bad it doesn't apply here.
Maybe not with Hamas, but there's been many organisations IMO wrongly dubbed as "terrorist". Hezbollah being a prime example. But you can understand why people are even reluctant to regard Hamas as terrorist, besides the Israelis and American troops have killed more civilians in a matter of minutes than the Hamas militants have in years
What can we expect in the wake of the invasion?
A new territorial arrangement, with the stationing of Israeli and/or
"peacekeeping" troops?
The militarization of the entire Gaza coastline, which is strategic for
Israel?
The outright confiscation of Palestinian gas fields and the unilateral
declaration of Israeli sovereignty over Gaza's maritime areas?
Ariel Sharon in 2001 "Israel would never buy gas from Palestine"
Under the proposed 2007 agreement with BG (British Gas), Palestinian gas from Gaza's
offshore wells was to be channeled by an undersea pipeline to the
Israeli seaport of Ashkelon, thereby transferring control over the sale
of the natural gas to Israel.
The invasion plan of the Gaza Strip under "Operation Cast Lead" was set
in motion in June 2008, according to Israeli military sources.
A new territorial arrangement, with the stationing of Israeli and/or
"peacekeeping" troops?
The militarization of the entire Gaza coastline, which is strategic for
Israel?
The outright confiscation of Palestinian gas fields and the unilateral
declaration of Israeli sovereignty over Gaza's maritime areas?
Ariel Sharon in 2001 "Israel would never buy gas from Palestine"
Under the proposed 2007 agreement with BG (British Gas), Palestinian gas from Gaza's
offshore wells was to be channeled by an undersea pipeline to the
Israeli seaport of Ashkelon, thereby transferring control over the sale
of the natural gas to Israel.
The invasion plan of the Gaza Strip under "Operation Cast Lead" was set
in motion in June 2008, according to Israeli military sources.
Maybe not with Hamas, but there's been many organisations IMO wrongly dubbed as "terrorist". Hezbollah being a prime example. But you can understand why people are even reluctant to regard Hamas as terrorist, besides the Israelis and American troops have killed more civilians in a matter of minutes than the Hamas militants have in years
Again with the American troops.
And the actual number of deaths has nothing to do with it. Plus I disagree with the Hezbollah argument but mine and your views are nearly polar opposites. I respect what your saying and you entitled to your view of course, I just flatly disagree with pretty much all of it.
This has been repeated so many times, and people still seem to either ignore it or just not grasp it.
The Muslim Arabs arranged against Israel are fighting a war of annihilation, make no mistake about it. If Israel was unable to defend itself, it would cease to exist in a matter of days. The loss of Palestinian life lost in Israels attacks on MILITARY targets would be a drop in a bucket compared to the systematic attacks on Israeli CIVILIANS by Hamas and other terrorist organizations.
Israel has no designs on wiping out the Palestinian people, if it did we wouldn't be talking about the supposed genocide they are practicing right now because it would already be over. They would have done it.
Israel is fighting a battle of self preservation ANY sign of weakness will simply invite Israels enemies in the area to test them further.
Hamas and other terrorist organizations with the support of various states are fighting a war of ANNIHILATION and will not stop until Israel as a state no longer exists and in the process will kill as many Israelis as possible.
A person who condemns Israel for its actions in defending itself and supports Hamas or any other terrorist group that seeks the destruction of Israel needs to get off that river in Egypt because they are obviously racially and ethnically motivated.
The Muslim Arabs arranged against Israel are fighting a war of annihilation, make no mistake about it. If Israel was unable to defend itself, it would cease to exist in a matter of days. The loss of Palestinian life lost in Israels attacks on MILITARY targets would be a drop in a bucket compared to the systematic attacks on Israeli CIVILIANS by Hamas and other terrorist organizations.
Israel has no designs on wiping out the Palestinian people, if it did we wouldn't be talking about the supposed genocide they are practicing right now because it would already be over. They would have done it.
Israel is fighting a battle of self preservation ANY sign of weakness will simply invite Israels enemies in the area to test them further.
Hamas and other terrorist organizations with the support of various states are fighting a war of ANNIHILATION and will not stop until Israel as a state no longer exists and in the process will kill as many Israelis as possible.
A person who condemns Israel for its actions in defending itself and supports Hamas or any other terrorist group that seeks the destruction of Israel needs to get off that river in Egypt because they are obviously racially and ethnically motivated.
I see. So it's annihilate them before they do us for Israel then?
I am English and I condemn the killing of 300+ children and hundreds more UNARMED, INNOCENT men and women. Which of the two am I?
Also what do you call a man who defends the massacre of children, human rights and all international laws and treaties?
Sorry that I have not been able to contribute to this thread this past week but was knee deep in work commitments. Stakes have now been raised though since the Mods have now decided that Rafa & I share the same mental stability (WTF?!)
Anyway, cometh the weekend, cometh the opinions and I'm taking on all comers. will be trawling through the past few days of posts and seeing whats cooking.
As a stating gambit, I went out over Xmas and bought all 8 series of The West Wing and I'm already hooked and addicted .... cant believe that I missed this for all these years! am onto series 3 already and a few days ago, I saw the profound 1st special edition of series 3 'Isaac & Ishmael' that was shot and aired in the months after 9/11. Spectacular and profound piece of TV drama with some amazing script writing. I implore everybody to watch it.
In that edition is one of the most profound quotes that I've ever heard:
'Islamic terrorism is to Islam what the Klu Klux Klan is to Christianity"
I think that is one of the most accurate analogies I have come across. Got me thinking about what is going on right now .... and with so many credible and authoritative people and organisations comparing what Israel is doing to the Palestinians to the brutality that Hitlers Nazi's inflicted upon their own Jewish forefathers 70 years ago, I find myself asking:
Is Israel 2009 to Judaism like what 'Islamic terrorism is to Islam and what the Klu Klux Klan is to Christianity?
This edition also contains a very simple and accurate version the biblical event from where this conflict starts and that is the story of Issac & Ishmael. Listen out for the end of the story:
(WTF?!) Anyway, cometh the weekend, cometh the opinions and I'm taking on all comers. will be trawling through the past few days of posts and seeing whats cooking.
As a stating gambit, I went out over Xmas and bought all 8 series of The West Wing and I'm already hooked and addicted .... cant believe that I missed this for all these years! am onto series 3 already and a few days ago, I saw the profound 1st special edition of series 3 'Isaac & Ishmael' that was shot and aired in the months after 9/11. Spectacular and profound piece of TV drama with some amazing script writing. I implore everybody to watch it.
In that edition is one of the most profound quotes that I've ever heard:
'Islamic terrorism is to Islam what the Klu Klux Klan is to Christianity"
I think that is one of the most accurate analogies I have come across. Got me thinking about what is going on right now .... and with so many credible and authoritative people and organisations comparing what Israel is doing to the Palestinians to the brutality that Hitlers Nazi's inflicted upon their own Jewish forefathers 70 years ago, I find myself asking:
Is Israel 2009 to Judaism like what 'Islamic terrorism is to Islam and what the Klu Klux Klan is to Christianity?
This edition also contains a very simple and accurate version the biblical event from where this conflict starts and that is the story of Issac & Ishmael. Listen out for the end of the story:
An interesting approach but I think we're slightly on a different perspective here.
I do not think it is important what these "people" and war do to religion. What is important is what they do to people.
I do not think it is important what these "people" and war do to religion. What is important is what they do to people.
I've never read that before Plech. Not doubting you at all but can you please lead me to some sources? Thanks
thanks buddy
I see. So it's annihilate them before they do us for Israel then?
I am English and I condemn the killing of 300+ children and hundreds more UNARMED, INNOCENT men and women. Which of the two am I?
Also what do you call a man who defends the massacre of children, human rights and all international laws and treaties?
Are you that totally disconnected from reality? Israel is not fighting a war of annihilation. Do you even know what annihilation means? Do you know what genocide is? Do you know what ethnic cleansing is?
Anyone that would suggest Israel is deliberately targeting civilians, and would classify what they are doing as annihilation is clueless, totally, completely and hopelessly clueless. They are just spewing hyperbole.
Israel is a MODERN military power. If they were doing as some suggest, perhaps you? Then there would be HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dead.
Here is the catch, instead of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dead, there are a few hundred. However put that shoe on the other foot and then you will see some good ole fashioned biblical style genocide and annihilation.
Whatever your views on Israels politics, they are handling Palestine with VELVET gloves.
So who really are the bad guys here? The guys with the jets who COULD wipe the other guys out and don't. Or the guys with the rockets and mortars who WANT to wipe the other guys out but CAN'T.
Sorry that I have not been able to contribute to this thread this past week but was knee deep in work commitments. Stakes have now been raised though since the Mods have now decided that Rafa & I share the same mental stability
Anyway, cometh the weekend, cometh the opinions and I'm taking on all comers. will be trawling through the past few days of posts and seeing whats cooking.
As a stating gambit, I went out over Xmas and bought all 8 series of The West Wing and I'm already hooked and addicted .... cant believe that I missed this for all these years! am onto series 3 already and a few days ago, I saw the profound 1st special edition of series 3 'Isaac & Ishmael' that was shot and aired in the months after 9/11. Spectacular and profound piece of TV drama with some amazing script writing. I implore everybody to watch it.
In that edition is one of the most profound quotes that I've ever heard:
'Islamic terrorism is to Islam what the Klu Klux Klan is to Christianity"
I think that is one of the most accurate analogies I have come across. Got me thinking about what is going on right now .... and with so many credible and authoritative people and organisations comparing what Israel is doing to the Palestinians to the brutality the Hitlers Nazi's inflicted upon their own Jewish forefathers 70 years ago I find myself asking:
Is Israel 2009 to Judaism like what 'Islamic terrorism is to Islam and what the Klu Klux Klan is to Christianity?
This edition also contains a very simple and accurate version the biblical event from where this conflict starts and that is the story of Issac & Ishmael. Listen out for the end of the story:
You believe in 9/11 conspiracy theories.
Your post is an epic fail.
The worse guys are those who have killed more.
What does any of what you have said in your post change from the fact that 300+ children and many more civilians have been massacred?
What does it change from the fact that Israel are committing crimes of war and are brutally stepping with both feet on human rights and international laws and treaties?
Why does it make a difference if they are deliberately murdering civilians or if they are knowingly bombing one of the most densely populated areas in the world where more than 50% of the inhabitants are children?
Are you so narrow minded, that you don't accept the possibility of 9/11 being a conspiracy? Especially after knowing that the only ones who benefited from it was the USA.
Taking sammsky as an example, I have decided to get to the bottom of this whole mess in the middle east.
I'm pretty sure I've gotten to the bottom of it.
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155015/?tag=Cartman
In this analogy ERIC CARTMAN IS TO KYLE what PALESTINE IS TO ISRAEL
I'm pretty sure I've gotten to the bottom of it.
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155015/?tag=Cartman
In this analogy ERIC CARTMAN IS TO KYLE what PALESTINE IS TO ISRAEL
I think massacred is more than a little bit disingenuous. Massacred would imply some sort of intent. These people have died. Yes. Israel did not intentionally kill them. Israel knew it would kill civilians as an inevitability of fighting an enemy that hides amongst women and children.
What crimes of war? What laws? The only international laws being violated are those by Hamas who continually break cease fires and wage war against Israel.
Are you really asking why there is a difference between using precision guided munitions against terrorists who shelter among women and children and the indiscriminate and intentional targeting of civilians? Really? You're really asking what the difference is? That's very interesting.
I'm educated. Anyone who thinks it is even a remote possibility after even a CURSORY glance at the evidence presented immediately falls under the Joe Rogan "didn't you suck a dick once" line of reasoning from "Shiny Happy Jihad."
I seriously doubt the first one.
I could reason with you for any of the replies but that just sums up what a tool you are so I won't bother.
Take a quick look at this just for fun.
If you happen to like it there is 15 more.
I've seen this argument 100x before. Then I've watched people debunk everything said in the argument with the logic and reasoning skills of a grade schooler.
I also find your distaste for Joe Rogan amusing. Considering he is a highly intelligent, articulate individual I can understand why you wouldn't like him. However the title of his CD has nothing to do with this thread. The joke is about people who have done things in their past that throw all their future judgments and claims into question.
Like sucking a cock.
Believing 9/11 conspiracy nut jobs is akin to sucking a dick.
Your judgment is a little suspect. You therefor forfeit every argument you ever have with anyone who knows about your felatiating past.
Hence "didn't you suck a dick once?".
You've watched what debunked? People explaining to you how the laws of physics took a day off on 9/11.
Believing that is why I doubt you are educated.
That is a different subject and we can start a thread to discuss it if you wish.
Meanwhile on subject here are some human rights violations:
And to answer your question, no I haven't sucked cock. Not that it would change anything if I did.
You've watched what debunked? People explaining to you how the laws of physics took a day off on 9/11.
Believing that is why I doubt you are educated.
That is a different subject and we can start a thread to discuss it if you wish.
Meanwhile on subject here are some human rights violations:
And to answer your question, no I haven't sucked cock. Not that it would change anything if I did.
You actually believe 9/11 was a government conspiracy.
You actually believe 9/11 was a government conspiracy.
Yes it's true, the overly use smilies does work a charm when you have nothing to say.
Although in the first post I read in this forum, it said that it makes you look childish and stupid
P.S. Changing the subject does not change the facts.
There is not point debating 9/11 conspiracies. You believe weird things. Coincidental things. Wrong things. When confronted with reason you plug your ears and scream lalalalala.
One of the favorite arguments. Steel melts at 3700 Fahrenheit. However they ignore the fact steel becomes ELASTIC at 1000 Fahrenheit.
They say WTC 7 was undamaged and a controlled demo. Except there are PICTURES that show half the building is CARVED out from the towers falling on it.
If you believe 9/11 was a conspiracy carried out by the US government then you have no grasp on logic or reason and any further discussion is futile because clearly you are insane.
One of the favorite arguments. Steel melts at 3700 Fahrenheit. However they ignore the fact steel becomes ELASTIC at 1000 Fahrenheit.
They say WTC 7 was undamaged and a controlled demo. Except there are PICTURES that show half the building is CARVED out from the towers falling on it.
If you believe 9/11 was a conspiracy carried out by the US government then you have no grasp on logic or reason and any further discussion is futile because clearly you are insane.
My insanity still doesn't change the fact that Israel has violated Human Rights.
P.S. Start a thread so we can debate on it. I am curious to see what else except smilies you could come up with when you have nothing to say
I love "disproportionate" response. That doesn't even exist. That is something apologists throw out there.
Of course Israel is refusing to speak to Hamas. Why should they? So Hamas can regroup, rearm and in 3 months start firing 50-60 maybe even 100 rockets a day this time?
This is a war. A war Hamas a democratically elected government started by breaking a truce and launching dozens of rockets into Israel. It doesn't matter if they killed anyone. It was an act of aggression against a sovereign nation that has as much right to exist as you have the right to live.
Hamas as a result is being destroyed. Hamas is at least as culpable as Israel is for the civilian casualties inflicted because Hamas intentionally seeks out crowded civilian refuges to maximize civilian deaths to drum up international support.
In a war, if your enemy goes to ground you burn them out. The Palestinian civilians are also not innocent in this. They elected a TERRORIST organization to power whose EXPRESS PURPOSE IS TO ERADICATE ISRAEL.
If anything Israel is showing enormous restraint here. Any other modern nation would react far more brutally to the kind of things Hamas says and does.
Of course Israel is refusing to speak to Hamas. Why should they? So Hamas can regroup, rearm and in 3 months start firing 50-60 maybe even 100 rockets a day this time?
This is a war. A war Hamas a democratically elected government started by breaking a truce and launching dozens of rockets into Israel. It doesn't matter if they killed anyone. It was an act of aggression against a sovereign nation that has as much right to exist as you have the right to live.
Hamas as a result is being destroyed. Hamas is at least as culpable as Israel is for the civilian casualties inflicted because Hamas intentionally seeks out crowded civilian refuges to maximize civilian deaths to drum up international support.
In a war, if your enemy goes to ground you burn them out. The Palestinian civilians are also not innocent in this. They elected a TERRORIST organization to power whose EXPRESS PURPOSE IS TO ERADICATE ISRAEL.
If anything Israel is showing enormous restraint here. Any other modern nation would react far more brutally to the kind of things Hamas says and does.
My insanity still doesn't change the fact that Israel has violated Human Rights.
P.S. Start a thread so we can debate on it. I am curious to see what else except smilies you could come up with when you have nothing to say
Human rights are a luxury in wartime.
When you can, be compassionate. When you need to, be ruthless.
If you believe that then you're a fecking tool. (which you have established to show before too)
I'll have you know one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.
This is the main reason that Hamas came into power. The way they go about reaching those goals is wrong, but this doesn't mean Israel is right.
They are both wrong and there's not much distinction in how they do tings. yet one is a terrorist organization and the other a sovereign country with a legal government.
P.S. Ignoring the facts that Israel have violated Human Rights won't make them go away.
So it's like that now. This makes me think you are uniformed on the matter and are arguing a case based on your thoughts.
Unless it's common for you to constantly change what you say.