You must be kidding surely?
Luka Modric / Signs for Real Madrid
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
You must be kidding surely?
There goes the valuation debate, come on lads... No need for this really.
I never said that, I simply said that only the best of the best player's should command the best of the best fees and contracts. Whether that be to United, Madrid, or Milan is immaterial.
£40m whatever way you look at it is far too much for a player who's only really found form 13 months ago after his transition to CM. To pay £40m I'd expect someone who's done it on a regular basis at the highest level, ie. excelled at CL and WC's, not someone who's been good for 13 months yet even then hardly set the world alight in CL or top PL fixtures.
Chelsea bound yes.
Do I actually believe he really gives that much of a shit about staying in London, no!
Some of you lot are so naive, players will say anything to try and look the best they can, his statement was no doubt put together by his agent's PR team.
I'm sure we will... somehow. Top class central midfielders are hard to find these days and even harder to acquire though. Amongst all the rumours of defenders and wingers we've surely got something in the works. Until then It's painful to watch obvious targets getting their heads turned.
Not really no, at his best Torres was one of the best strikers in the premiership but I'd argue that Modric is one of the best midfielders in the premiership
Where's the difference?
Erm.... he says and I quote:
so what are you babbling on about
Only one who sent an offer to Spurs...Why else would nobody be bidding I wonder? I'll let you think it over and you might just see why all other club's haven't bothered tabling a bid to Spurs, heck I'll throw you a hint...Maybe, just maybe, he's let it be known that he's not for relocating?
Obvious targets? what part of Modric saying "Chelsea are the only club who have made an offer" do you lot not understand
Torres has been shit for two seasons now, as a natural striker I think Hernandez will surpass him.
Premiership yes, Torres was once of the best in the World.
Those that have seen Modric regularly say he has excelled in the top Premiership games, most specifically against Chelsea.
I very much doubt that. Why else is nobody bidding? it happens often enough, I'll drop you a hint.... Maybe, just maybe the other teams that could afford him (United, City, Barca, Madrid, Inter) are looking at other players that are a bigger priority such as Sanchez.
I await for SAF to pull another Hernandez out of the bag and say feck all you'se idiots!!!
So basically break the bank and try to hijack a player who said he was settled in London ?
I really give in...
He'd cost at least 40m ++ thanks to the hype when players possibly better than him are going for 8m...
To be totally honest with you, I see more in Banega than in Modric, potential wise, age wise... I think Banega has the chance to turn into a better player...
Thats why I'm not really interested if Modric turns us down... Would have loved to have gotten him, but again, there are potentially better players out there and it would be better not to go into a bidding war...
Obvious targets? what part of Modric saying "Chelsea are the only club who have made an offer" do you lot not understand
I was talking more from the fans point of view rather than Fergie's.
We have a gaping hole in midfield, Fergie is a known admirer of Modric who has proven his ability as a top player in this league. So it's only natural we made assumptions that we might be targeting him. This latest update proves otherwise though.
Rooney was never as woeful as Torres has been, and never as long. Also Rooney is a complete player, Torres isn't.
What are you on about?
I never said buy Modric, not once. He's actually bottom of my list.
BTW we'd actually have to bid for Modric for him to turn us down.
a awful lot after the brilliant season he had before the summer.
ooooooh he really was.
So you reckon SAF feels adding to our plethora of wingers requires more urgent attention than our midfield minus Scholes, Hargreaves, and Gibson from last season's squad and with Giggs at a delicate age when it comes to maintaining form? Get real. More likely that he's on the lookout for CM's but the ones he wants aren't available for varying reasons, with that being the case you don't just drop all interest in other player's for other areas of the team. Just because Young has been added and it appears we are interested in Sanchez, doesn't mean SAF sees it as more vital than addressing the midfield which every man and his dog knows needs to be added to at some point.
Okay so to answer you question in short... Big money. Point proven, what you think of Torres is just a flick of a coin because him Rooney and Drogba have been the best strikers this league has to offer in the last 3 years and if anything Rooney would probably have been bottom of that list.
There is a lack of appreciation for the substantial differences that exist between the various positions and roles in certain aspects of these discussions.
I've lost count of the number of times that I have witnessed someone identify a problem area in a team, only to then suggest a particular player or players who are unsuited to that role and/or have never actually played in that role throughout their entire career. The most persistent example is the suggestion that United need a 'creative central midfielder', with the examples given all being attacking midfielders in the classical sense (i.e. a midfielder that operates almost exclusively in the opposition half/final third in the space behind a striker or strikers).
Kaka, Ozil, Sneijder, Pastore, Ganso, and Nasri, are all fine examples of attacking midfielders. That's not to suggest that all are equally unsuited to a role in central midfield -- although I believe that all but two are -- but what cannot be denied is that all of those players have primarily attracted attention based on their performances in a completely different position to the one that United are supposedly looking to buy for.
What that effectively means is that some people are highlighting a players performance in one position/role as a reason to sign that player for an entirely different position/role. It may well be valid as an example of some of the attributes that could be of benefit in their new position, of course. But on it's own, and particularly without an explanation of just how that player can translate those attributes in to an entirely different role, it has the potential to confuse and ultimately mislead.
The roles are different primarily because of the responsibilities that all central midfielders in the modern game are expected to fulfill. There is some overlap, specifically in relation to combinations involving a three-man central midfield -- with two holding players and one player with the freedom to roam, perhaps -- but there is almost no overlap between the role of an attacking midfielder and a player in a two man central midfield, where both players are responsible for protecting the back four.
What this means is that Manchester United are not going to find a central midfielder that also fulfills the role of an attacking midfielder, even if they were to convert an attacking midfielder in to a central midfielder. That is the essential fallacy of highlighting an attacking midfielders ability to create and score goals as evidence of their superiority as compared to a specific central midfielder (such as Modric). It's only slightly more sensible than suggesting that a fullback should not be signed because they don't score as many goals as a striker. It's a category error, in other words.
To underscore this point even further, were United to sign an attacking midfielder for that position, it is likely that their output in terms of directly creating and scoring goals would be considerably diminished. This is because almost all central midfielders spend the majority of their time on the pitch between the edge of their own penalty area (when defending) and 20-30 yards from the edge of the opposition penalty area (when attacking). The moments where it is possible (and responsible) to go beyond that point are either when the team is in desperate need of a goal, or if the teams domination is such that the risk of being caught on the counter attack is limited.
It has always been my opinion that a deep-lying playmaker rather than a player that will directly create and score goals would be most beneficial to this current United team. This is partly because I don't believe that a player that consistently scores and creates goals from that position actually exists, but also because the problem with United's performances over the last few years -- and particularly the away form last season -- has been a failure to control games with quality possession. It has consequences both in defence and attack far beyond an ability to control possession, however.
I've lost count of the number of times that I have witnessed someone identify a problem area in a team, only to then suggest a particular player or players who are unsuited to that role and/or have never actually played in that role throughout their entire career. The most persistent example is the suggestion that United need a 'creative central midfielder', with the examples given all being attacking midfielders in the classical sense (i.e. a midfielder that operates almost exclusively in the opposition half/final third in the space behind a striker or strikers).
Kaka, Ozil, Sneijder, Pastore, Ganso, and Nasri, are all fine examples of attacking midfielders. That's not to suggest that all are equally unsuited to a role in central midfield -- although I believe that all but two are -- but what cannot be denied is that all of those players have primarily attracted attention based on their performances in a completely different position to the one that United are supposedly looking to buy for.
What that effectively means is that some people are highlighting a players performance in one position/role as a reason to sign that player for an entirely different position/role. It may well be valid as an example of some of the attributes that could be of benefit in their new position, of course. But on it's own, and particularly without an explanation of just how that player can translate those attributes in to an entirely different role, it has the potential to confuse and ultimately mislead.
The roles are different primarily because of the responsibilities that all central midfielders in the modern game are expected to fulfill. There is some overlap, specifically in relation to combinations involving a three-man central midfield -- with two holding players and one player with the freedom to roam, perhaps -- but there is almost no overlap between the role of an attacking midfielder and a player in a two man central midfield, where both players are responsible for protecting the back four.
What this means is that Manchester United are not going to find a central midfielder that also fulfills the role of an attacking midfielder, even if they were to convert an attacking midfielder in to a central midfielder. That is the essential fallacy of highlighting an attacking midfielders ability to create and score goals as evidence of their superiority as compared to a specific central midfielder (such as Modric). It's only slightly more sensible than suggesting that a fullback should not be signed because they don't score as many goals as a striker. It's a category error, in other words.
To underscore this point even further, were United to sign an attacking midfielder for that position, it is likely that their output in terms of directly creating and scoring goals would be considerably diminished. This is because almost all central midfielders spend the majority of their time on the pitch between the edge of their own penalty area (when defending) and 20-30 yards from the edge of the opposition penalty area (when attacking). The moments where it is possible (and responsible) to go beyond that point are either when the team is in desperate need of a goal, or if the teams domination is such that the risk of being caught on the counter attack is limited.
It has always been my opinion that a deep-lying playmaker rather than a player that will directly create and score goals would be most beneficial to this current United team. This is partly because I don't believe that a player that consistently scores and creates goals from that position actually exists, but also because the problem with United's performances over the last few years -- and particularly the away form last season -- has been a failure to control games with quality possession. It has consequences both in defence and attack far beyond an ability to control possession, however.
Both you and I have no idea. He thought a central defender needed more urgent attention.
For all we know SAF has decided on his central mid and it isn't Modric. Why are we guessing?
Didn't Torres score 20+ aswell the same season?
I'd argue that there's not exactly a massive wealth of top class strikers at the moment or when Torres was at his best, who were the other candidates Rooney, Eto'o, Drogba, maybe Villa anyone else? And even when Torres was at his best it was arguable that he was better than those others.
I wont proclaim Modric to in the same class as a Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas and the likes and I wont claim to know as much about other players playing in the other top European leagues as others but I'd certainly argue that if Modric is one of the best midfielders in the premiership and the premiership is one of the best leagues in the world then by default surely Modric is one of the better midfielders in the world no?
This, this, and fecking this.
I've lost count of how many times a United fan say the midfield needs adressing only to offer up number 10's like Ozil, Sneijder, and Costa as our solutions.
Is Modric in the top ten midfielders in the World? not sure.
Was Torres in the top 5 strikers in the World? without doubt and that's why he was so fecking expensive even after being shite for a year.
If Modric is complete crap for a year do you think he'll still command 40m?
Joga saves the day.
Sneijder has played plenty of his career in centre mid.
Agree on the other 2 though. Add Kaka too to that list.
Absolutely spot on. I'm sick of retards on here screaming out for big names without realising that they wouldn't actually suit the team at all.
Despite that, I do think Modric would be a cracking signing for us, as he doesn't really fit the attacking midfield mould and is comfortable, creative and assured in a 2 man midfield.
That low 22m bid is starting to make sense now.
Spurs must be fuming.
It can turn ugly very fast.
Spurs must be fuming.
It can turn ugly very fast.
Probably not but again with Torres you're working with a much smaller short list
Regardless of this though I still dont buy that only players who are without doubt one of the top 10 in the world can command fees of £40m not in a market when most of the candidates in this top 10 in the world category play for clubs like Real and Barca
So basically this is exactly like the Torres deal
1. Chelsea Bid
2. Bid rejected
3. Player reveals he wants to go to Chelsea
Step 4 I am assuming will be player joining Chelsea
In any case we are out of the running which is sad because I think Modric would've been perfect. He's exactly the kind of midfielder we needed.
Nevermind I'm guessing Fergie already knew this and probably has others in mind.
1. Chelsea Bid
2. Bid rejected
3. Player reveals he wants to go to Chelsea
Step 4 I am assuming will be player joining Chelsea
In any case we are out of the running which is sad because I think Modric would've been perfect. He's exactly the kind of midfielder we needed.
Nevermind I'm guessing Fergie already knew this and probably has others in mind.
To address my concerns about MF.
1. Is Carrick already the best player in his position ? Are their any other alternatives, at 29, at his peak, we might consider a new DM prospect with more all rounded abilities ? We've lost Scholes and Hargreaves, we have Scholes replacement in Giggsy for me but who replaces Hargreaves ?
2. Is Modric the best in his current position ? I've watched Spuds countless of times, I love the way he controls MF, his pace, his dribbling, his work rate and how he makes things tick are all good attributes... But really I wouldn't label him one of the best MF's in the world, its more so the hype.
Now for him to want to stay to London means we should be assessing other prospects, I don't understand why we're groaning on missing a signing, its not like we're missing out on the new Cantona or anything.
1. Is Carrick already the best player in his position ? Are their any other alternatives, at 29, at his peak, we might consider a new DM prospect with more all rounded abilities ? We've lost Scholes and Hargreaves, we have Scholes replacement in Giggsy for me but who replaces Hargreaves ?
2. Is Modric the best in his current position ? I've watched Spuds countless of times, I love the way he controls MF, his pace, his dribbling, his work rate and how he makes things tick are all good attributes... But really I wouldn't label him one of the best MF's in the world, its more so the hype.
Now for him to want to stay to London means we should be assessing other prospects, I don't understand why we're groaning on missing a signing, its not like we're missing out on the new Cantona or anything.
I agree totally. Its exactly why i wanted modric over sniejder and nasri. Hes a far better for for our team.
That said, now that it seems modric is on his way to the chavs, we might have to buy a no10 type midfielder/striker and convert them into a more central midfielder. I cant think of any available players who play deep like him or carrick.
Step 4 is the club coming out and saying he isn't for sale and they won't entertain any offers.
Step 5 he joins Chelsea.
Or it can start off ugly with mafia money and pretty much stay that way.