“The Koran is our constitution, the Prophet is our leader, jihad is our path and death in the name of Allah is our goal,” -Egypt's new president, Mohammed Morsi
A people's Revolution
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Wonderful news! As I thought at the time, this Arab Spring may have simply been revolution without a trace of evolution.
hands up if you saw this coming.
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Oh dear...when did he come up with that?
Saw what coming? The Egyptians exercising their democratic right? How outrageous, lets forcefully take it away form them and restore the wonderful, prosperous days of Mubarak.
But seriously, the revolution mostly maintained a secular nature and involved the majority of Egyptians - both Muslim and Christian, with secular leaders being at the forefront of the events. Morsi has become president mostly because of Egypt's electoral naivety - seculars split their vote amongst many candidates whereas the Islamists rallied under the MB banner.
This hasn't been a smooth transition nor will it continue to be for some time, but its something that should be allowed to mature. Or would you rather countries only have the right to democracy when we force it on them after bombing them to the heavens?
These 'MB mob' are a tiny part of the initial movement. Yes, their candidate has won the presidential election but rest assured there's no way he'd be allowed to implement undemocratic perogatives and survive. The only ones capable of doing so are the SCAF - who should be viewed as the single most serious barrier to Egyptian democracy as opposed to the brotherhood.
An Arab country turning democratic doesn't mean they'll jump at the first chance of war with Israel. Egyptians can barely get bread on their tables at the moment, I'm not exactly sure they fancy a war to further complicate their livelihoods, nor do I think the military establishment would fancy their chances. Thats another thing - no Arab country is equipped enough to engage the Israelis in armed conflcit, so I don't think we'll be seeing any civilians blast the drums of war in a democratic arena, nor will their military establishments comply.
It appears that an all out war against Israel ceased to be an option for the Arabs back in 1973. However, Egypt could cause a major security headache for Israel if it offers its territory as a platform for launching attacks on Israeli territory. From there things could escalate even if bread on the table is the average Egyptian's top priority.
Who would you think the platform would be provided for? Hamas?
I'd be more concerned regarding whats happening at your north eastern border.
I'd be more concerned regarding whats happening at your north eastern border.
Much ado about nothing you're making here, mate. Did I say that Egypt shouldn't of had a democratic election? I also didn't say that Mubarak was a good leader, or anything of the sort.
What I did say is that Morsi will not be a step forward in political reform, he is no more democratic then Mubarak in nature, just because it was democracy that voted him in, doesn't mean that he'll honour democracy in the long run.
I know, it's the same in all walks of life when it comes to voting, and another sad aspect of religion.
The Palestinians have been using Sinai for attacking Israel for a while now, particularly during the last year. The murdered civilians mean this is a major worry, but thanks for highlighting the potential danger across the Syrian border. It appears that is an issue which is currently being discussed very seriously.
Hvaing said that, I'd beeven more concerned if I lived on the other side of either borders.
I'm not into Egyptian poitics, but this bloke seems to agree with you that the Muslim Brotherhood Will Never Relinquish the Presidency
Source?
If Morsi chooses to be undemocratic he won't survive, simple as that. The MB don't have a strong enough mandate to dominate Egyptian politics, not to mention you have the SCAF breathing down their necks. Morsi will achieve nothing, nor will he usurp his party to Egypt's ascendancy. What's likely is that he'll be a pretty insignificant figurehead in all this and chances are his presidency won't even last a full term. This excessive fear-mongering from the Western media regarding the MB has been embarrassingly blown out of proposition.
The real barrier to Egyptian democracy isn't the MB, its the SCAF. They'll be a lot more difficult to topple than Mubarak but its they the Egyptians have to ovecome if they're to truly mature into a fledgling democracy. Obviously at this stage thats easier said than done.
JakeC from Red Cafe
Coming up.
This. All the tourist sites are going to be closed down next week. No more women in bikinis, all bars gone, the christian minority forced to convert or driven out of the country.
This election is as good as it gets for the MB. Over the next election cycle, the other parties will strengthen their machinery, party structures etc and the MB vote bank will start to take a hit.
Most importantly as you said, despite this facade of control, I think we can all see who is really running Egypt, and it isn't the MB.
People are scared of Muslim extremists, which is fair enough in my opinion.
Any country that is led by A Muslim/Christian/Athiest/Jewish only Party isn't going to end well.
Any country that is led by A Muslim/Christian/Athiest/Jewish only Party isn't going to end well.
Might as well be goal.com WTF!
It is a sad direction of the world that Muslims are treated with such disdain now.
Do we all know why this is?
I am not religious btw, in fact I have pity for Christians, Jews and Muslims although slightly more for Jews and Muslims as they can't eat bacon.
It is going to be a long time coming until repression and ridiculous hatred is rooted out of mankind, more likely destruction first.
I tend to have little pity for people who, by practising their religion, think non-believers are going to spend eternity in a fiery morass of agony.
Why? do you think they are right?
Obviously not, but what does that tell you about them? They should not only think you are immoral but deserve it, too. It's disgusting.
Anybody who dislikes Muslims is an idiot. They're people, like Christians, Athiests and others, extremists on the other hand, (there are a high percentage of Islamic extremists, let's face it) are hated, and rightly so. By normal Muslims, and people from other backgrounds.
Really? And what percentage is that then?
medieval times here we come.
http://news.yahoo.com/egypts-presid...de-center-183711438--abc-news-topstories.html
Yong and lernin etc...
Yong and lernin etc...I watched this speech in Arabic, admittedly not fully focused and don't remember him saying anything of the sort. I'm currently not in a place where I can access speedy enough internet to watch it again but when I am, I'll watch it again and focus on what he said.
Considering he gave this speech to an audience of Egyptians across the spectrum, from moderate Islamists to Salafis, to Al Azhar and Christian clergymen, to secular politicians and youth and nationalist figures (also secular) such as el-Baradei and Zewail, I cannot imagine he would have said something like 'death in the name of Allah is our goal'.
Especially as, since the 70s when they renounced violence, the MB's activities have revolved around helping Egypt's poor, attempting to squeeze some kind of political concessions out of Mubarak and being a glorified professional's syndicates. The brothers are mostly a bunch of highly qualified doctors, lawyers, engineers and businessmen. They're more interested in free market capitalism and making money than 'death in the name of Allah'.
Redkaos has got it absolutely spot on. The biggest obstacle to a true Egyptian democracy is not the MB. It is SCAF. The Muslim Brotherhood are the most organised block outside of the state apparatus in Egypt and yet only managed to squeak past a secular nationalist running by himself by a small margin. Any moves to monopolise power and build a dictatorship will come under fire from just about every single group in Egypt, including the Salafis.
For someone who doesn't have an understanding of Arabic or a deep understanding of Egyptian politics and society, it is difficult to convey exactly how the state media (which is still what a huge number of Egyptians watch) went about the second round of elections. The propoganda and lies against the group was excellent and devastating.
Egyptians want security, food, jobs, education, healthcare, hygiene, infrastructure and a whole lot besides. And they want it quick. Many are unrealistic about what should be achieved in the next few years. My own personal opinion? The decision to field a presidential candidate at this time will be one of the worst decisions made by this organisation. Their credibility will likely be in tatters by the end of Mursi's 5 years in power imo, if he is even allowed to get that far by the military and the Egyptian deep state, which tends to be against Islamists. I suspect they'll eventually go the way of the wafd party.
Just my own personal opinion though! If the media is to be believed, Egyptians have just elected the anti-christ who will enact the worst areas of Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi, Pakistan and the Gaza strip, ban alcohol, massacre or forcibly convert the copts, introduce a religious police and make war with Israel. All this this will be with the consent of the fiercely nationalistic, secular army and the 70 million Egyptians who did not vote for the Muslim Brothers.
The secular parties have acted like such spoilt brats since the parliamentary elections. They really need to look more at why they did not create a viable alternative for the Egyptian people and were unable to make themselves heard and understood, rather than crying about it. I've already outlined my dislike for the MB, their ideals, the way they've acted since the revolution etc. But the constant stream of propaganda against them has been rather strong, to put it lightly.
The Muslim Brotherhood don't have the power, whether in people, money, guns or organisations to indefinitely hold onto the power.
As an aside and not really 100% related to this but the silence of these kinds of party when the courts dissolved parliament deeply disappointed me. Where were their democratic ideals then?
http://www.morsimeter.com/en/
I also quite like this. If he gets through 40% or more, I'll be impressed.
I can actually see what you mean. In an ideal world, that would be true. It worked well in South Korea for instance, where dictatorship eventually led to a pretty outstanding economy and a modern democracy.
The problem then comes however when that dictator is not working for the interests of the country (or believes he is but is actually doing the opposite) and is worsening the economic situation, when literacy rates are actually going backwards, when the state repression apparatus is one of the most extensive in the world. When he shows every sign of wanting to install his son in power after he dies, a man who has even less morals than he does.
Surely people cannot wait until they stumble upon a dictator who actually manages to advance the country?
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/06/18/10_reasons_countries_fall_apart?page=0,0
Egypt is not a 'failed state' (I'm not a big fan of that term tbh) akin to Somalia of course but I see many of those issues in Egypt, often largely due to Mubarak's policies (or lack of).
Unfortunately, people all over the world are stupid and get duped into wars. The populations of the UK and USA were both duped into the Iraq war, costing billions and hundreds of thousands of lives. Then the people re-elected those politicians!
Israel has little to fear from a direct confrontation with Egypt. I think it is in everyone's best interests though if both work together to secure the sinai and this is something I'm hoping (but am not particularly expecting) SCAF and the MB can and will sort out.
It's fabricated lies...
For something similar....
http://mideasti.blogspot.com/2012/04/anatomy-of-hoax-and-media-credulity.html
Glad to hear it, it seemed a bit out of character judging from recent interviews i've heard him speak, but not out of character from his organization.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/04/w...tary-to-cement-power.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
So the generals have been planning this all along, they and Ganzouri will pass the next budget (and from what I understand, they've been spending like maniacs in the past year and will implement great austerity in the upcoming one.
Again, I'm no expert but my feeling is that the MB will regret their decision to put forward a presidential candidate.
So the generals have been planning this all along, they and Ganzouri will pass the next budget (and from what I understand, they've been spending like maniacs in the past year and will implement great austerity in the upcoming one.
Again, I'm no expert but my feeling is that the MB will regret their decision to put forward a presidential candidate.
BBC Breaking News @BBCBreaking
#Egypt's military to hold emergency meeting after President Mursi orders parliament to reconvene, defying a court order
So the 1st face off?
#Egypt's military to hold emergency meeting after President Mursi orders parliament to reconvene, defying a court order
So the 1st face off?
http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/elbaradei-criticizes-morsy-summoning-parliament
He's also said there would be new parliamentary elections after the new constitution is written.
Apparently, SCAF are 'surprised' though I'm still personally doubtful that Morsy did this completely out of the blue and it was one of his election promises.
Still, very interesting move, I wonder how it will pan out.
He's also said there would be new parliamentary elections after the new constitution is written.
Apparently, SCAF are 'surprised' though I'm still personally doubtful that Morsy did this completely out of the blue and it was one of his election promises.
Still, very interesting move, I wonder how it will pan out.
Saudi wahabi nutjob at the helm...why am i not surprised ?
these wahabis and the saudi royal family in particular should be deposed off like mussolini was through the streets of italy. But it wont happen until usa is there best mate in the region.
their
IAF thwarts a terror attack at Egypt border, which Egypt had a warning about. The attack left 16 Egyptian soldiers dead and in response the Egyptian army has finally startedflexing its muscles in Sinai. Interestingly it's not Mubarak, who obviously had been on Israel's payroll, that is in charge of keeping Israel's Southern border quite now.
And the obligatory "Mossad behind Sinai attack"
And the obligatory "Mossad behind Sinai attack"