They will let him hang around worshiping them but he will never be one of them and they will piss him off without a thought if needs be. But if you haven't been buggered senseless by the same head boy and gone to the same Uni (Oxford or Cambridge only), puked up the same the same 100 quid bottle of port after eating all the roast swan you can manage at the same dining club then you can never be "one of us".
Alex Salmond and Independence
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Yep, if there's one horrific blight on society today, it's definitely discrimination against the privileged
Scottish independence: Cameron and Salmond pave way for 2014 referendum
Agreement after both sides give ground will allow Scots to make the 'most important political decision in 300 years'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/oct/14/scottish-independence-2014-referendum
My respect for Cameron just grew a lot, every culture or society should have the right to determine who governs them. Now lets hope they make the right decision and stay in the Union
Also look out for the underhand tactics that the Conservatives play in this referendum. In the AV+ referendum, their panthlets were filled with lies and attacks on Clegg.
Agreement after both sides give ground will allow Scots to make the 'most important political decision in 300 years'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/oct/14/scottish-independence-2014-referendum
Salmond has accepted there will be only one question on the ballot paper – whether Scotland should leave the United Kingdom or not. The Scottish first minister had hoped to have a second question asking voters whether they support "devo max" – a form of enhanced devolution that stops short of independence. But he abandoned this after failing to win support in civic Scotland.
But Cameron has given ground by allowing Salmond to hold the referendum in 2014, the 700th anniversary of the Battle of Bannockburn, and to allow 16- and 17-year-olds to vote.
But Cameron has given ground by allowing Salmond to hold the referendum in 2014, the 700th anniversary of the Battle of Bannockburn, and to allow 16- and 17-year-olds to vote.
My respect for Cameron just grew a lot, every culture or society should have the right to determine who governs them. Now lets hope they make the right decision and stay in the Union
Also look out for the underhand tactics that the Conservatives play in this referendum. In the AV+ referendum, their panthlets were filled with lies and attacks on Clegg.
Well, personally I hope the Scots do get their independence. They've wanted it for decades, even centuries, and in typical Westminster fashion the English haven't wanted to give it up. Seems that the only parts of the empire still allowed to be oppressed are the other countires within the British and Irish isles.
None of the Scots I know have ever voted conservative. They're a much more left-leaning, liberal nation, with their own cultural and political differences. They might be closer to the English than they are the French or Germans, but they're not English. Cameron's government, whom a fraction of them voted for, was the last straw. Why should they be told what to do by a bunch of English public schoolboys who don't give a feck about them in return?
Good on the Scots, I say. I hope they get it. Who knows, it might finally push the English government into letting Northern Ireland have a say on its future, too.
None of the Scots I know have ever voted conservative. They're a much more left-leaning, liberal nation, with their own cultural and political differences. They might be closer to the English than they are the French or Germans, but they're not English. Cameron's government, whom a fraction of them voted for, was the last straw. Why should they be told what to do by a bunch of English public schoolboys who don't give a feck about them in return?
Good on the Scots, I say. I hope they get it. Who knows, it might finally push the English government into letting Northern Ireland have a say on its future, too.
Independence = The Conservatives get majorities for the rest of time
No to independence = The union stays together
We can't lose
No to independence = The union stays together
We can't lose
Well exactly. Clearly, the English enjoy Conservative governments. So this way, they get to have Tories running the country forever more, and the Scots get to have a governments that actually supports their own political and cultural beliefs. It really is a no-brainer.
People saying how sad the dissolution of the Union is are probably the same sorts crying about the Empire being broken up one hundred years ago. It's just not right when England doesn't get to tell all these other countries what to do anymore.
If only you could spread bet on a Conservative government for the rest of time. Or against.
Letting 16 & 17 year old's vote, what nonsense.
Would it be that much of a difference? Is Scotland that big a factor in any Labour win??
It's 5.5 million almost guaranteed Labour votes. Now, some of the landslide elections it wouldn't have made much difference (like Labour winning in '97), but some of the closer elections it would have done. The Tories would probably have not needed a coalition this time around if Scotland weren't voting.
Labour normally win about 40 seats in Scotland. The Conservatives usually win approximately 1.
Says who?
Huge factor; the Conservatives would have had a majority of 21 in the last general election without Scotland. I haven't kept up on the boundary change legislation but if that goes through the Conservatives gain another twenty seats or so on Labour. At the very least it would force Labour to lurch to the right in order to satisfy the wants of English voters.
Says an Irishman.
If they wanted it so bad then Salmond wouldn't have need to secure the votes for 16 & 17 year old's. Salmond knows that age group is more likely to vote with their hearts than their head and vote for independence. Salmond even admitted about a year ago that if they took the vote now then he wouldn't win. That is why he wants it in 2014 and on an emotive date. Orduck is talking oot his arse.
The Prime Minister prior to Cameron was Scottish. Scotland are represented in Westminster.
Scotland wanting independence just because the Tories are in government would be about as silly as the South East of England wanting independence when Labour are in power.
My respect for Cameron just grew a lot, every culture or society should have the right to determine who governs them. Now lets hope they make the right decision and stay in the Union
Also look out for the underhand tactics that the Conservatives play in this referendum. In the AV+ referendum, their panthlets were filled with lies and attacks on Clegg.
Referendums are not binding under the British constitution. Even if the Scots vote for independence, it will still require the approval of Westminster and then that of the Crown.
There is no such thing as a British constitution, but to answer Mike, if the South East of England wanted independence then the rest of us would dance and sing.
If they vote for it, they'll get it. Giving them a referendum is acknowledgement of that really. Can you imagine the uproar if in the unlikely event they vote for independence, Cameron just ignores it?
Yeah that situation would be untenable, even though against independence in Scotland will probably turn. You either give them the referendum or you don't.
In any case, I don't think they will vote to break away.
On the other hand I can see problems over the terms. After a yes vote the SNP would demand terms that I think it would be in the best interests of the rest of the UK, to turn down.
What does a yes vote mean then? It wouldn’t mean Independence for Scotland at any price for the rest of the Union.
I think there is a 99% chance that Scotland will not become independent.
Are we talking early or late 2014? If it's the former I can go ahead with my original plan to auction off my vote.
The main question for me is, will single malt whiskey become less or more expensive if the sweaties get independence?
Assuming the UK and Scotland will be in the EU, the price should be the same.
William Hill/Paddy Power are offering 3/1 on for a No to independence, following opinion polls of course.
Which is not great odds, but with certainty like yours you will make a fortune.
Then gradually starve to death.
What's the likelihood this will happen?
Damn, autumn 2014 apparently.
If the Scots didn't want independence, why did they vote in the Scottish Indepedence Party? Says a lot, I think.
Why does it scare the English so much that the Scots might actually want to leave? You're all very patronising about it, and often quite insulting, too. I find it odd, frankly.
Why would the rest of the UK starve? It's the South-East that would suffer huge overpopulation issues with not enough land to grow food on. They'd have to import all their food.
What the hell, oppressed? Scotland is essentially an equal partner in the Union, it's just that because of the geographical and demographic superiority of England, it tends to appear like England is 'colonising' Scotland. For what it's worth, I'm very sympathetic to arguments for a referendum on Scottish independence, but this has never been an issue about the English against the Scots, and the rhetoric some use regarding this quite frankly disgusting.
I'd rather the Union stayed intact, but if the Scots vote in the referendum to reduce the scope of the Union, the fair enough.
Because they were sick of Labour and wouldn't vote conservative.
Also I support the Union and I think you will find that I have been fully supportive in every way of the Scots right to vote for Independence. I hope they don't leave, it would be rather sad and potentially devastating economically, but everyone should have the right to determine who governs them.
Yes there is, the people of the UK live under the fecking thing.
It won't.
Doesn't matter what uproar it might cause, I was simply making the point that the result of it is not binding, it will need a bill in Westminster and Royal Assent.
It worries me that people don't understand the difference between there not being a written constitution and not being one at all.
I mean, it's 1707 in reverse.
It worries me also, the UK does have a constitution, it's just not codified in a concrete set in stone single document, and it can be changed at whim by parliament or the judiciary. It's a fecking fantastic system if you think of it, a living breathing constitution.
I think its just wording escaping wording. We are happy for a document entitled "Northern Ireland Constitution Act 1973" but "we don't have a constitution."
The thread has taken a turn for the worst.
The good news about independent is that we won't get labour in power with a majority for years!
The good news about independent is that we won't get labour in power with a majority for years!