What percentage would want Trident relocated to an English base in the event of a (probable) No vote?
I don't think people are angry only because of the danger but also because the majority of people did not want it here but got it anyway.
Alex Salmond and Independence
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What percentage would want Trident relocated to an English base in the event of a (probable) No vote?
I don't think people are angry only because of the danger but also because the majority of people did not want it here but got it anyway.
I find it quite amusing how the Yes campaign has descended into simply the use of two words whenever anyone says anything that undermines their campaign - "Scaremongering" and "Bullying". The banks are scaremongering. Big business is both bullying and scaremongering. The Govt is bullying by not agreeing to a currency union.
Salmond's rants are becoming ever more bizarre as voting day gets nearer. The pressure of knowing he's going to lose is getting to him but it's his own fault. He's had his whole political life to prepare for this but he's failed to come up with any workable policy on one of the most basic issues - currency. Simply repeating ad infinitum the mantra that the Govt is lying and bullying when it says there would be no currency union isn't a policy.
Salmond's rants are becoming ever more bizarre as voting day gets nearer. The pressure of knowing he's going to lose is getting to him but it's his own fault. He's had his whole political life to prepare for this but he's failed to come up with any workable policy on one of the most basic issues - currency. Simply repeating ad infinitum the mantra that the Govt is lying and bullying when it says there would be no currency union isn't a policy.
Labour where also pushing for this when they were in power, people still in the education system are more likely to support socialist viewpoints for what ever reason.
Cameron agreed to it to be fair
And it's the right thing to do, it's their future as much as anybody else.
I don't get this at all. The vote is a about to happen, why would those with interests against independence not say all they have to in the days leading up to the vote? It's electioneering, effectively.
You wouldn't imagine a political party to be silent in the days running up to an election would you?
Nail in the coffin if you ask me.Salmond's new friend:-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor.../North-Korea-backs-Scottish-independence.html
The whole yes campaign as been made to look a foolish last couple of days, a part of me feels a little sorry for them.
Absolutely, in fact why draw the line at 16, why not 11, or 5? In fact why not let children run the country, I'm sure that would work out well, free school sweet, for example, and no homework.
It's all very well, but giving such important decisions to people who have no experience of life, but think they know everything, is not something I would agree with.
Yeah ok
I'd be pretty wary of 16 year olds voting considering when I was 16 most of them, including myself were complete cretins and clueless about the world. Not that 18 year olds are always much better but I think the couple of years out of school helps.
I dont know.
The clyde seemed the best place to locate the base strategically from what I have read (although information on this seems quite tricky to find). Again in strikes me as Scotland not getting everything your own way and kicking up a fuss about it. Do you honestly believe that every person in Scotland will agree with every decision made by an independant Scottish government? There will always be decisions to make and it is impossible to please everyone - what will you do if/when an independant government make an unpopular decision?
Westminster/UK just seems like an easy scapegoat for the many of the SNPs arguments, to help stir more nationalistic feelings among the Scottish population.
Latest Guardian/ICM is back to 51/49 in favour of no. Probably a response to this weeks over the top coverage on every paper, too transparent at this stage in the campaign so Yes was bound to get another boost.
Remarkably 42% of Labour voters are now voting yes despite Ed Miliband being likely to win in 2015. All claims of this being nationalist movement are dead now.
Remarkably 42% of Labour voters are now voting yes despite Ed Miliband being likely to win in 2015. All claims of this being nationalist movement are dead now.
Nail in the coffin was the whole NHS thing, but yeah other than this guy:-
And folk like this:-
I don't know how any Scot could vote yes after the last couple days, William Wallace seemed a smart guy, he probably would have voted no.
This guy is something else.
Is that right? I have been stressing about this exact same point for weeks, thinking the loss of Scottish labour votes will be decisive. I havent gone back and checked it though.
But given how finely balanced the last election was - and people saying it is likely to be that way more often than not from here on in - maybe history isnt that important here anyway. Even if Scottish MPs havent often swung it in the past (I fond that hard to believe but will take your word for it because I cant be bothered to check it myself) maybe in a world of hung parliaments and increasing support for smaller parties, maybe they would in the future.
The counterargument of course is that a lot of people are going to blame the Tories for "giving away Scotland". Though presumably UKIP would be beneficiaries of that?
Which is kind of ironic, seeing as many of the arguments that I would use to show why we are better together are exactly the same ones I would use against the UK leaving Europe.
I completely agree, it's a dangerous slippery slope.
Personally, there is no reason anyone who isn't an Anglican land-owning man over a certain age should have any say in the workings of government. They are the only ones with the life experience and stake in politics to properly exercise the right to vote. I suppose if we really stretch it, Catholics can be permitted as well. Certainly no women.
Although, now that I think about it, maybe some women should be allowed to vote, but only those over the age of 30 and who either own property or have a degree from a British University, while men have the vote at 21 regardless. That should present the proper balance to government. You know what? This is getting too complicated. Let's just say everyone over the age of 21 are allowed to vote. Or 18? Let's make it 18. But that's where we stop, lest we ride the slippery slope all the way to toddlers and small dogs.
You got there in the end.
- RUK is Rest of United Kingdom.
The Scottish vote has only made a difference in 2010 and 1974 in the last 50 years. Though if you assume election results are going to continue to get closer and less volatile in the medium-term future, and that the Conservative share of the vote in Scotland won't grow back to its 70s levels (ha!), no Scotland will make a hugely significant difference in future elections...
Basically, you're right in everything you're saying. Historically the Scottish vote hasn't changed a lot, but I think it will/ would be very likely to in at least the next couple of elections.
Not sure if the blame for losing Scotland would just go to the Tories though, Labour are arguably even more at fault.
The issue is that almost a million people have already voted by post. They deserve the right to have been informed of these dangers long before now. It's lies and dirty tactics.
Asda going to put their prices up while Tesco say there's no need? Who the feck do you think is going to suffer and who is going to benefit in that instance? That's why shit like what these supermarket folk are saying is utter nonsense. Lidl and Aldi manage to have fair prices despite operating in cross border situations. Funny, that.
And while I touch on the postal votes. It's also very unfair that Westminster offer more powers after 800 thousand people have already voted. That may have swayed many Yes voters into voting No but now it's too late. Though I wouldn't trust any of them with these "new powers" that are being promised.
You're wasting your time man. All of a sudden days before the vote there are a load of folk who take an interest, think they are experts on Scottish politics and end up parroting the line repeated by each and every newspaper south of the border from Guardian to Telegraph. It's a fundamental flaw in their campaign which really disturbed the democratic process - if the yes campaign had tried this stuff they'd call it dirty tactics but you can hardly blame your casual commenter for the blind spot given the echo chamber of the London based media.
I've been pretty impartial to all this, and I'm no fan of Salmond.
But watching the desperate scaremongering of the No camp and southern Media, and enjoying David Cameron and his Westminster cronies squirm has pushed me firmly into the 'Yes' camp. Besides, I think the world is angling towards more self-determination so I consider these developments an inevitability.
Free Kurdistan, Free Scotland
But watching the desperate scaremongering of the No camp and southern Media, and enjoying David Cameron and his Westminster cronies squirm has pushed me firmly into the 'Yes' camp. Besides, I think the world is angling towards more self-determination so I consider these developments an inevitability.
Free Kurdistan, Free Scotland
I've been pretty impartial to all this, and I'm no fan of Salmond.
But watching the desperate scaremongering of the No camp and southern Media, and enjoying David Cameron and his Westminster cronies squirm has pushed me firmly into the 'Yes' camp. Besides, I think the world is angling towards more self-determination so I consider these developments an inevitability.
Free Kurdistan, Free Scotland
What makes you say that when the world is all 'pact' and 'unity' (EU/UN/NATO/G8/WTO/IMF etc), a so called 'independent nation' won't be independent if it wants to join the likes of EU/NATO which Scotland does and since Scotland also wants to carry on using the £ they will be Crown dependencies, they would need to give part of their sovereignty to Westminster and the UK therefore in essence still part of the UK and not really a sovereign nation, so what are Scotland voting for i ask?
I hope we can get that sexy Dragon of ours on the flag if Scotland do decide to bugger off.
I'm English but I think it's a travesty the dragon isn't on the flag. What kind of Union doesn't take the opportunity to put a dragon on a flag FFS.
It should be on anyway
The first one with the white background doesn't really big us up enough. The second one, you think Wales straight away but im not sure it looks that great. And both are Dragonless...
Salmond's new friend:-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor.../North-Korea-backs-Scottish-independence.html
The whole yes campaign as been made to look a foolish last couple of days, a part of me feels a little sorry for them.
at Our Dear Leader TMI don't think you're going to get your Dragon
No vote coming, I thinks.
If so, will result in huge disarray amongst young Scots.
If so, will result in huge disarray amongst young Scots.
I really like the idea of independence, even though I am an Englishman living in Scotland, but I've just not heard anything robust enough to sway me to a yes vote. A vote for yes, in my opinion, is a vote for complete uncertainty at this time. I'm very open to having my mind changed, but with everything the Yes campaign throws up, I don't feel any closer to a Yes vote. I'll be voting No on Thursday.
I'll be glad when it's all over really. The Yes voting folk just seem to be acting like lunatics at the moment. It seems impossible to even talk about the situation with any of my friends or co-workers who all seem to be voting Yes. As soon as any possible downside or uncertainty of an independent Scotland is raised as a point of discussion, it's just immediately rubbished, but with no logic or reasonable refute. I know a hell of a lot of No voters who are open to having their mind's changed, but like me, aren't convinced by what is being presented. It just sounds like a whole lot of crossed fingers to me.
You ever see that Louis Theroux episode where he's trying to reason with the Westboro Baptist Church folk, but they just keep interrupting him by calling him stupid, deluded, and that he is going to hell, instead of giving actual answers? That's what it feels like whenever I speak to a Yes voter it seems. There's just no conversation. It's just "Whoever votes No is stupid and is killing Scotland", all media outlets who aren't glaringly Pro-Yes are "biased" and any possible downside to independence is nothing more than "Westminster scaremongering".
Hopefully, rational thinking and sanity will resume 7 days.
I'll be glad when it's all over really. The Yes voting folk just seem to be acting like lunatics at the moment. It seems impossible to even talk about the situation with any of my friends or co-workers who all seem to be voting Yes. As soon as any possible downside or uncertainty of an independent Scotland is raised as a point of discussion, it's just immediately rubbished, but with no logic or reasonable refute. I know a hell of a lot of No voters who are open to having their mind's changed, but like me, aren't convinced by what is being presented. It just sounds like a whole lot of crossed fingers to me.
You ever see that Louis Theroux episode where he's trying to reason with the Westboro Baptist Church folk, but they just keep interrupting him by calling him stupid, deluded, and that he is going to hell, instead of giving actual answers? That's what it feels like whenever I speak to a Yes voter it seems. There's just no conversation. It's just "Whoever votes No is stupid and is killing Scotland", all media outlets who aren't glaringly Pro-Yes are "biased" and any possible downside to independence is nothing more than "Westminster scaremongering".
Hopefully, rational thinking and sanity will resume 7 days.
Well said.
Just saw online that when these supermarkets were contacted by people worried about the claims from Better Together that prices would rise they said there was no plans to implement price rises. This was last week. It's then funny that after one-on-one meetings in London that some of them then come out and warn of these risks after rubbishing them themselves less than a week earlier. It's also entirely coincidental that businessmen are also coming out and saying an independent Scotland could flourish. Businessmen who've not held emergency talks with London in recent days.
When No were ahead by a healthy margin there wasn't a peep out of England. There was no sign of the three stooges coming up and "lovebombing" us or offering us imaginary powers. There were no threats from banks, supermarkets, mobile phone providers etc. Either these are scare tactics and lies or they're legitimate which begs the question why the hell they only made them known with one week to go and just under a million votes already cast.
As for those who were yesterday claiming Salmond didn't answer any questions. It's funny how Nick Robinson was forced into admitting on his own Twitter account that Salmond did in fact answer his question (though didn't answer another question). Why couldn't he have reported as such on the news? Why was his report simply "Salmond didn't answer my questions". Blatant bias and lies from the impartial BBC.
At least you're not bitter and doing a good job of remaining objective.
The media have been a joke in all of this. The BBC are a disgrace. I'm not saying that because they're not "glaringly Pro-Yes".
Hah. Objective. Has anyone on either side of this been "objective"?
So if after Scotland breaks apart from the Brit world and Ireland decides to invade them we will have north Korea helping them for a few bottles of whisky?
The world's single biggest problem.
It's just supremely hypocritical for any Yes campaigner to bemoan dirty tactics and claim bias, with hand's just as dirty.
I have a Brother and sister in law who both work for the Beeb and every time I ask them are they yes or no, without fail, they answer... I don't get an opinion I work for the bbc.
But you realize prices will increase because now Scotland needs to trade with other countries not under the umbrella of UK or EU? Will never be the same, people cannot just cross the border and get a job like now, will be a lot of changes and I'm not sure if the oil will support all the changes on peoples life.
People need to realize that Scotland needs to start all over:
- Defense (navy, army, air force, etc)
- Coast Guard
- Currency (bigger issue than people thinks)
- Schools
- Plus all the expenses a government have
But if you guys break away from UK ..... congratulations!!
Or maybe they are reporting on what they believe is the truth? I'm not going to pretend that I know what's going on, the only thing I am sure on is that I wouldn't trust Salmond as far as I could throw him, if I was Scottish I would be very concerned in his failure to answer the questions that have been asked of him.