Agree.
Alex Salmond and Independence
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Agree.
It's amazing how it only took the threat of an entire nation leaving the union for politicians to get off their arses and fix something that people have been unhappy about for a long time. If only we were a lobby group, then things would have been sorted out sooner.
46% were.
No they weren't. A lot of Scots don't like Salmond but they wanted independence. They weren't voting for him, they were voting for independence in spite of their dislike for him.
Can't seem them introducing an English assembly though.
They won't. Barring Scottish, Welsh and NI MPs from voting on purely English issues in Parliament will have the same effect though.
Westminster will dump on them again regarding Devo max.
They voted no? Woo! In your face Scotland!
I've always been amazed why my MP has been able to vote on matters of English education or health. It just boggles the mind that only now something is going to be done about it.
Can't see that happening now that they've promised England similar powers - the media pressure is going to be huge on them to keep their promises.
Yeah Scotland! In your face for losing the vote by voting! LOOSSAAHHH LOOOOOSSSAAAAHHHH.
Looks like he was...
Cameron to announce that "Devo Max" or whatever it is called will include the return of Prima Nocte.
Well 46% of the 87% who turned out to vote - so mote like 40%
I think the biggest surprise for me was how few places actually had a majority in favour of independence
No doubt in 20 years or so they will be saying yes but the young voted for independence and now lots of the people who voted to stay are dead - Its a matter of time before they eventually go independent I feel - hopefully not too much time
Or alternatively, in 20 years when those young people are middle-aged, trying to raise a family, pay a mortgage and get on in their careers they will probably change their minds and vote 'no' - just as those older people did yesterday, who've seen a bit more and realise that idealism is nice, but it has to be paid for.
Kind of disappointed they voted no - just because it would have been really, really interesting to see how things would have unfolded had they said yes.
Exactly, that's why I was so dead against letting 16 and 17 year olds vote.
yes - but that reality wont stop people on the yes side asking for another referendum
Why would you be upset if they asked for another referendum? It isn't like Salmond asked for a referendum out of the blue, his party won a majority in a parliament where a majority is meant to be difficult to muster. The Scottish people clearly wanted at least the option, the discussion of whether they should stay part of the union. They've had this discussion and this time decided no.
If in the future, the same situation presents itself, I would be very happy for them to have another referendum. I'm in support of the democratic process and self-determination if that is what they wish.
If in the future, the same situation presents itself, I would be very happy for them to have another referendum. I'm in support of the democratic process and self-determination if that is what they wish.
Funnily enough, that's what I was thinking this morning.
About par for the course in terms of maths in this debate... But well done CNN.
im in support of giving them another referendum tomorrow - i wanted them out
And the Union has been maintained.
Indeed
Things went down roughly as I expected. It's the right result for Scotland and the rest of the UK. The damage of separation would have plunged Scotland, and probably other parts of the UK, into a long and deep recession.
Now that the NO vote is confirmed, I hope we don't stop there. The political system in the UK needs some serious changes. It's time for England, Wales, Scotland and NI to be treated equally within the Union. This means all of them getting a devolved government to control local affairs. Westminster only needs to govern the nationwide affairs such as international policy and defense. Matters such as tax, public spending and healthcare do not generally need to be managed by Westminster.
I would like to see each of the UK countries elect their own government, and the central UK government would then simply be derived from these parties, rather than voted for separately.
For example, England elects the Tories, Scotland elects the SNP, Wales and NI elect whoever they fancy - the head of each of these local governments (ie Cameron, Salmond and the other two) form a head council of leadership over the UK as a whole, based in Westminster - but this would only be to control affairs that affect the entire UK equally.
I'm no politician and don't know whether the above would be viable for whatever reason, but that is roughly the structure I would like to see.
Now that the NO vote is confirmed, I hope we don't stop there. The political system in the UK needs some serious changes. It's time for England, Wales, Scotland and NI to be treated equally within the Union. This means all of them getting a devolved government to control local affairs. Westminster only needs to govern the nationwide affairs such as international policy and defense. Matters such as tax, public spending and healthcare do not generally need to be managed by Westminster.
I would like to see each of the UK countries elect their own government, and the central UK government would then simply be derived from these parties, rather than voted for separately.
For example, England elects the Tories, Scotland elects the SNP, Wales and NI elect whoever they fancy - the head of each of these local governments (ie Cameron, Salmond and the other two) form a head council of leadership over the UK as a whole, based in Westminster - but this would only be to control affairs that affect the entire UK equally.
I'm no politician and don't know whether the above would be viable for whatever reason, but that is roughly the structure I would like to see.
One of us, one of us:-
I think the difference is that in 10-20 years, you will have a generation of people who as a majority voted Yes 10-20 years ago. The next 10-20 years will be key - if they still feel disillusioned, then that will strengthen their resolve - not necessarily for them, but for their children.
Pensioners will probably still vote No because of their pensions, so the next long-term plan for the nationalists will be to retain the support of today's 18-35s, and continue to campaign for the young voters.
If Westminster does nothing, then I think the next referendum will be a Yes.
Can't say I like the sound of the bolded part. It would be hard to stomach an even less representative system than the one we have now.
The parties can't even agree on what powers they want to give to Scotland . Can see this one going back and forth. Not forgetting Wales and Ireland want their piece of the Devo pie.
But the "central" Westminster government wouldn't be nearly as powerful as it currently is, as all local affairs would be handed to the devolved, local parliaments.
Also I don't see how that system isn't representative - each of the four nations would have their elected party having a major say in the UK affairs as a whole.
Edit: everyone talking about the "next referendum" it's been well established that this is a once in a generation thing. I can't see another referendum for AT LEAST another 30 years, at which point the landscape may well have completely changed (plus the oil may well have dried out)
I think we're all missing the most important outcome of that referendum.
Fergie remains the greatest British manager of all time.
Fergie remains the greatest British manager of all time.
All talk of another one already in 20/25 years time. Personally i think we need to stop all this bullshit, we are all one country, England/Scotland/Wales/N.Ireland are just regions just to get heated up about in things like football.
Be proud of our great history and where you are from, but we are one country now - English/Irish/Scottish/Welsh we are all the same people really.
Be proud of our great history and where you are from, but we are one country now - English/Irish/Scottish/Welsh we are all the same people really.
Although I agree that under 18's were far too young to vote on something so important, it will be interesting to see a breakdown of voting demographics. From what I saw the other day under 18's were 60% NO.
I just find it all quite sad. A country that has suffered so much in the past (and still does to a certain extent) with sectarianism is now again divided for political reasons. I wonder how many families have fallen out over this? In this day and age I think selfishness has shown not to work. It's about time everyone started to pull together and look at the bigger picture. I'm not a communist by any stretch, more an idealist, and just think we need less borders, not more. You don't have to give up your identity just because you believe in being fairer to everyone.
Sure but there are still many important things that wouldn't be devolved. It would be less representative because most people in the UK would have voted for a party that has absolutely no say on matters affecting all of the UK.
And how would this head council work? Either you end up with Peter Robinson holding the same amount of power as David Cameron, which is mental and again wholly unrepresentative, or Cameron essentially has free reign. None of the leaders of the the other three countries would be in the position to fulfil the role that the leader of the opposition does.
Then there's the issue that Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland all use different voting systems for their own parliamentary elections.
The 'independence campaigners giving it 110%' headlines were quite good tbf. The downsides of being some lackey having to key in the numbers in the middle of the night plain to see there.
About par for the course in terms of maths in this debate... But well done CNN.
I said it before and I'll say it after - Billy Bragg had it arse about tit, this is the best result for everyone in terms of real change.
I know the idea of independence was appealing to many Scots (about 45% apparently) but when the dust settles and they end up with most of what they wanted but could not have achieved independently (being and active part of Sterling, retaining EU membership without taking on the Euro etc) I hope it'll ease the sting for them a bit.
And the fact is, the English are already grumbling about an English government and extra powers will have to go out to Wales and N.I.; so we could end up with a more federal set up with the international safety net of the Union - I can't think of a better outcome.
I know the idea of independence was appealing to many Scots (about 45% apparently) but when the dust settles and they end up with most of what they wanted but could not have achieved independently (being and active part of Sterling, retaining EU membership without taking on the Euro etc) I hope it'll ease the sting for them a bit.
And the fact is, the English are already grumbling about an English government and extra powers will have to go out to Wales and N.I.; so we could end up with a more federal set up with the international safety net of the Union - I can't think of a better outcome.
You with my gear on.
Actually, that was the most pleasing part to me, Marching.
I could fall in love with you. What size are you?
They are at the mercy of the English people on that one.