As opposed to allowing a potential assailant shoot them as they politely wait for traffic to pass until they're allowed to shoot.
American Cops Doing What They Do Best
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As opposed to allowing a potential assailant shoot them as they politely wait for traffic to pass until they're allowed to shoot.
Wow that’s crazy. Why can’t they use rubber bullets? They’ll go down, but will probably live.
You genuinely seem like a good poster and likeable guy (as much as you can tell over the internet anyway) but I think you are taking this as everybody attacking the US and consequently being blinded by your will to defend it.
I like the US, and can identify with a lot of the ideology of the country as an whole. However, the shooting in this thread was outrageously bad, and to try and make excuses for the police in this instance casts you in a bad light fella.
An unarmed man got assassinated by cops and this doesn't upset you? It happens all to often. Scumbag cops thinking they're above the law and sure why shouldn't they. Kill an innocent, worst thing that happens is suspension with pay.
Of course I find it upsetting, although I don't know all the facts, so I'll have reserve judgement as to what exactly happened and why.
As a brown fella who has recently been pulled over by US cops for bizarre reasons, I should probably be a bit more contemptuous, but I'm not. Cops have a difficult job to do in the US. The bad ones should be rooted out of course.
Usually I'd defend the police in situations like this, when we don't know the facts, but that video is shocking. He clearly wasn't armed (and was in very close proximity to the police so could clearly be seen), also if he had had a gun and was prepared to use it, why was he wasting his time throwing stones?
He had his arms raised and was surrendering when they fired at him.
If I could find any I would make some points to play devils advocate, but I can't, it's the execution of an unarmed man, whats next pepper spray for jwalkers?
The degree of fear and paranoia which seems to occupy so many Americans is mental.
I don't know the fachts in this case Pops. I'll have to read up on it more before sticking my neck out any further.
Based on that video there I'm not sure what justification there can be for them firing at him.
I'm not sure what other facts are needed really. Shooting someone dead is fair enough if someone is in danger (either the policeman or another member of the public) - in the Ferguson case, and the case of the 12 year old with the airsoft pistol I think both got what was coming to them (not saying they deserved it but if you play with matches don't complain if you get burned) - but its VERY clear from the video that there wasn't any immediate danger, he was surrendering, he was unarmed, there were three of them within range to overpower him, but they decided to open up on him (a static target) at close range. If they had giving him a good kicking I'd defend them to the end of the earth, shot him in the leg I would have said it was excessive but what happened is totally fecking mental.
My brother has been a cop for 20 years and has carried a gun for 15. He has had boiling water thrown over him, been attacked with slash hooks, had his teeth knocked out, been outnumbered and overpowered - I could go on - do you know how many people he has killed? None. How many times he's drawn his gun? Once - in response to someone pointing a shotgun at him through a car window. How many shots he's fired in the line of duty? None.
Obviously there are good and bad police but between the violence and the stupidly pointless policing of drugs it does feel like they are just government goons (I realise these are two entirely different points). The Guardia Civil in Spain are horrendous. They got away with beating a man to death last year in Ibiza and almost killed a neighbour of mine, he got lucky just to be put in a coma by them. Both had lost their head but posed little threat.
Or wait 'til they are actually under a threat that isn't a rock and a guy running off maybe?
Or wait 'til they are actually under a threat that isn't a rock and a guy running off maybe?
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Did they know he wasn't a threat or are we just assuming it because of the recent controversial cases ?
How is someone running away ever a threat to them though?
If he had pointed a gun at them, then ran off then he would perhaps (and it is still only perhaps) have posed a threat to others but there would still be no urgent need to shoot and risk other's lives anyway.
Not saying its what happened here, but theoretically, the cops don't know if a suspect is armed or not and have the right to shoot him if he resists arrest. If he's running away, he could still conceivably be armed.
So basically cops can shot anyone they want, in any circumstance, on the grounds that they might have a gun?
It'll free up court time I guess.
Even if they are technically allowed to shoot someone under these circumstances (don't know the law so will have to take your word for it), wouldn't that make it even more insane?
They are in complete legal control in that if they tell a suspect to get on the ground, stay in the car (as in another recent case), or any other instruction - they have to do it. If they aren't 100% sure the suspect is unarmed, he could conceivably pull a gun/knife/etc out. That's why in most cases, the cops know they are acting with the law on their side. If that's unacceptable, the law needs to be changed.
Can't disagree with that. These cases are more incendiary because of the racial subtext of white cops shooting black suspects.
That is completely fecking insane.
Here's how it works here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_John_Carthy#Calls_for_an_inquiry
Guy barricades himself into a house with a shotgun, ignores calls to put the gun down, fires at cops, is eventually shot dead by the cops.
Outcome - public outcry, full scale independent investigation with the FBI asked to come in and help, government committee established to investigate police procedure.
That guy had a gun, a history of mental illness and had fired shots at police - and shooting him dead was seen as excessive.
Wow, that is brutal. Just hearing the gun shots makes my stomach sink. Such reckless actions from stupid police persons.
Can't justify shooting and killing someone for throwing a brick at cops and the grandfather case is even worse because the man posed absolutely zero threat to anyone.
Had the same thing happened to a white person, we'd be seeing massive outrage everywhere. And the cops in question would have a really hard time getting away with it.
Had the same thing happened to a white person, we'd be seeing massive outrage everywhere. And the cops in question would have a really hard time getting away with it.
It absolutely needs to be changed. Although ideally in parallel with legislation that makes it much much harder to buy or carry a gun.
Even with a non-concealed weapon there's no need for any police force to go round carrying out summary executions. Just need police with better training and more respect for human life.
Things need to change, but man cops in the US have a tough job.
Everyone running around with guns would put me on edge with an itchy trigger finger too. if I was a cop in some parts of the states I would pretty much fear for my life every day
Everyone running around with guns would put me on edge with an itchy trigger finger too. if I was a cop in some parts of the states I would pretty much fear for my life every day
I posted this in a separate thread a while back, but it applies here also:
Activist critical of police undergoes use of force scenarios
Here's the original article:
http://www.fox10phoenix.com/story/2...al-of-police-undergoes-use-of-force-scenarios
Found this really interesting to be honest.
Activist critical of police undergoes use of force scenarios
Here's the original article:
http://www.fox10phoenix.com/story/2...al-of-police-undergoes-use-of-force-scenarios
Found this really interesting to be honest.
Yes but that's because they're the police. They're supposed to be there to ensure the safety of the public. If you have a "minority" of them going around shooting people, and the police as an entity try to defend these actions rather than remove said minority, then that does reflect a pretty major fecking problem with the police as a whole. Any one of them could decide to do something similar knowing there would be no consequences...which in turn will attract nutters to the possibility of being police officers.
I'm not buying that for one minute noodle.
Because the command level may try to defend the rogue officers here you think it's legitimate to paint an entire nation of police officers (across a myriad of different forces and jurisdictions) as trigger happy nutters ready to shoot anybody on a whim?
US Police, on the whole, do an incredibly difficult and dangerous job and do it well.
Your justification here for painting them all as lunatics is either remarkably simplistic or just plain disingenuous.
Are there problems? Obviously, but that doesn't make it right to tar them all with the same brush.
Because the command level may try to defend the rogue officers here you think it's legitimate to paint an entire nation of police officers (across a myriad of different forces and jurisdictions) as trigger happy nutters ready to shoot anybody on a whim?
US Police, on the whole, do an incredibly difficult and dangerous job and do it well.
Your justification here for painting them all as lunatics is either remarkably simplistic or just plain disingenuous.
Are there problems? Obviously, but that doesn't make it right to tar them all with the same brush.
Nothing supprise me in America any more. Until something is done to disarm the majority of the population people are going to continue to be as paranoid as feck
Yes.
It looked as if all three cops shot the guy (right?), so that makes me think they are just doing as they're trained to do. If just one guy fired, you could make a case that it was just a trigger happy cop who made an error in judgement. They all shoot despite the fact the guy was facing them with his hands in the air. They could easily have handled that without killing him, but it seems like that thought didn't come into consideration.
I think one of the main problems is the Police know there is very little chance of them being prosecuted. We see case after case on the news where the judge rules in favour of the cop or cops. No matter how absurd their behavior. They think they are above the law.
I think one of the main problems is the Police know there is very little chance of them being prosecuted. We see case after case on the news where the judge rules in favour of the cop or cops. No matter how absurd their behavior. They think they are above the law.
That's true, mainly because in most instances, the law is on the side of "law enforcement officers" or cops. Its not the cops that are the problem, nor is it the suspects they kill. Its how the law is tilted heavily in favor of cops that allows them the confidence to open fire.
I don't see why internal disciplinary actions can't bridge that gap though. They shouldn't just be afraid of breaking the law, they should be afraid of doing a bad job and getting sanctioned by their employer as a result. As a doctor you can have really severe sanctions applied (including losing your job, or even license to practice) because of actions that didn't break any law.
It's a cop out deciding that anything goes, so long as it's legally defensible.
No pun intended...
Australian cops play Cricket with people on Australia Day.
There definitely needs to be a better system of sanctioning bad cops as well as something that challenges the locker room culture of cops not squealing on other cops.
You cant be seriously defending that.
I wasn't, just making a point that cops often don't have a clue as to whether or not a suspect is armed or not, and don't bother taking a chance that he is.
They run after you, gently brutalize you and arrest you.
The dynamic in the US is a bit different due to the amount of guns around. Many suspects are armed or at a minimum have access to weapons, which completely changes the psychology from the cops perspective. If a suspect doesn't follow whatever they are told to do - the cops do get aggressive.
That's what I was going to say, in Europe there is not as much guns, so the Police is less stressed, I'm maybe exaggerating but in the US, every police control can end up with a gun fight.
There were some UK Police who got filmed sledding whilst on duty and were disciplined
