American Cops Doing What They Do Best

Fair play to Skizzo in his defending cops, and he has been forthcoming in some criticisms. Far more than any police union. Besides some damning video evidence, there are some fundamental cultural afflictions that are adding flammable fuel to this problem such as . . .

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ding-more-illegal-stuff-with-white-drivers-2/

Police are Searching Black Drivers More Often, but Finding More Illegal Stuff With White Drivers

For years, police records have shown that black drivers tend to be less likely than white drivers to turn up with guns or drugs when searched at traffic stops. At the same time, black drivers are three times more likely than white drivers to be subjected to these searches, according to a 2013 federal survey.

You might object (or not) to the idea of racial profiling — officers taking race into account when determining whether to stop and scrutinize someone. But few would endorse racial profiling that clearly doesn't work. It's apparent, though, that ineffectual, biased policing continues in many places — more black people are stopped and searched for contraband, while more white people are found with it.

The police, it seems safe to assume, want to do their job most effectively. So the puzzle is: Why are they continuing to search drivers in an inefficient way?

The question gained new urgency after the New York Times published on Sunday a story that assembled records from four states that keep track of who gets searched at a traffic stop, and whether anything was found.

When drivers get pulled over, the police may request to look inside the car if they suspect there might be guns or drugs. Officers have considerable discretion regarding whom they ask to search.

This chart from the Times analysis shows how often black people were searched at traffic stops compared with whites. As you can see, the Connecticut State Police searched blacks 2.6 times as often as whites; the Rhode Island State Police searched blacks 2.5 times as often; the Illinois State Police searched twice as often; and the North Carolina State Police searched 1.5 times as often. In Chicago, blacks were searched more than five times as often as whites. (cont)
 
This Happened today too

http://m.wistv.com/wistv/db_330790/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=jjM547yP

So not quite all the students were living in fear of this psychotic cop. Just some more info in the saga.

Again, just seems another effect of these trials by public opinion that someone gets fired without a full examination. The Sheriff did justify that he thought it was excessive force, and I guess its his right to hire and fire deputies (right?). But to me a more thorough accounting would've started with suspension, but then a review of Field's action that day and his other history, which is apparently at least partly positive if the students staged this walkout.
 
When I said "no one is sticking up for the girl" that was a statement of fact because no one has stuck up for her, not a plea like "why oh why is no one defending what this poor girl did" I never defended her actions, not even once so why you wrote a whole paragraph of hyperbole and her volunteering is beyond me.
That being said, if her behaviour was repetitive, and she is routinely disruptive - then the onus should have been on the school to punish her appropriately whether by suspension, exclusion or what other internal practices they employ to keep unruly kids in order. If her behaviour wasn't repetitive and this was the first time she's acted in such a manner - then quite frankly calling the police as a first resort is ridiculous. And even if she is disruptive, doesn't take orders/commands - that still doesn't mean she deserves to be dragged on the floor like an animal, she's still a human, give her some humanity, she hasn't committed a crime, she's not deserving of such treatment, it's disgusting to think otherwise.

Secondly yes, I am one of the people who sees issues with the excessive force that some police officers use, I don't come in here to talk badly about all police officers, that's ridiculous.
If I remember correctly you are a police officer or you have some sort of affiliation - so maybe without realising you're bias towards situations without taking the perspective of the other side into consideration. I get it, if its your profession you feel attacked, you get defensive, you feel as though you have to defend the actions of police officers because it's a very hard job and nobody understands unless you're in the line of work. In the same way, i'm a black girl who has had a few family members be the victims of police brutality despite being innocent, so maybe i'm bias to certain situations also.
But lets call a spade a spade, social media has exposed aggressive police behaviour and shown a wider spectrum of people all around the world the actions of some police officers (gotta say some before you assume i'm talking about every single police officer and say it's useless discussing with me just because I don't agree with you all the time).
There are instances where the police have acted with excessive force. Twitter makes everything a social issue, there are think pieces all the time about the statistics of police brutality against all races, it's a hot topic currently, but it's not new.
For decades there have been references to police brutality particularly against people of colour, in music, tv shows, depicted in movies etc. The majority of the time those cries have gone unheard, there's been little evidence because most police reports back up the police officer, and the perspective of person on the receiving end of such abuse go unheard. Now with body cams, dashboard cams and the fact that everybody has a camera in their pocket there's the possibility that these incidents will be recorded, and unlike a police report, video evidence cant be manipulated to suit a particular narrative so easily.
Now i'm not saying that all of those police officers are racist - certain situations arise, it gets difficult to diffuse and you have to make decisions in a split second regardless of what you look like.
But that doesn't mean that people just decided to hold a negative view of police officers for no reason, there are statistics which back up the claim, dozens of former and current police officers who have talked about ways in which they're told to manipulate reports, having to fill quotas, racism amongst their colleagues and higher ranking officials. There is something there. So to be dismissive and say "yes were all out to get you" not only ignores the issue but it makes light of years of tension felt from both sides.
Good post.
 
Students Protest Firing Of Spring Valley High School Officer
Deputy Ben Fields was fired this week for violently arresting a black 16-year-old student.

Students at Spring Valley High School in Columbia, South Carolina, left their classes on Friday to protest the firing of Ben Fields, a former resource officer at the school.

Fields, until recently a sheriff's deputy in Richland County, waslet go on Wednesdayafter a video emerged of him violently removing a 16-year-old African-American student from her chair, slamming her to the ground and arresting her. The video sparked widespread outrage and multiple government investigations as to whether the incident constituted a civil rights violation.

The local NBC affiliate WISreportedthat hundreds of students participated in Friday's walkout at 10 a.m., before a school administrator told them to return to class.

John Cassibry, a 17-year-old senior, posted a video of the demonstration and a confrontation with a school administrator.

"We've heard your voices. We appreciate you taking the time to do this," the school administrator said. "We always focus on teaching and learning. Let's head on back to class."

Some of the students responded by yelling "Free Fields."

Cassibry, who participated in the protest, told The Huffington Post that while he did not agree with Fields' conduct in the student arrest, he also did not believe the officer deserved to be fired.

"I believe it is important as a student to voice my opinion," Cassibry said. "My belief on Deputy Fields is just that -- I do believe he was too aggressive, but I do not believe it was any circumstance to lose his job, nor do I believe it was race-driven."

Several of the students seen demonstrating in Cassibry's video are black. Cassibry estimated that black students accounted for a majority of the protesters on Friday.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...9e4b0631799123018?ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067


There is a 30sec video which was also uploaded and mentioned in the article (I wasn't able to post it here unfortunately...)

Video basically shows the principal requesting protesting students to go back to class - real mixture of races at the protest.
 
Again, just seems another effect of these trials by public opinion that someone gets fired without a full examination. The Sheriff did justify that he thought it was excessive force, and I guess its his right to hire and fire deputies (right?). But to me a more thorough accounting would've started with suspension, but then a review of Field's action that day and his other history, which is apparently at least partly positive if the students staged this walkout.

Yeah the Sheriff can hire and fire, obviously needing reason to justify. He found reason here to do so, but he also reached that decision incredibly quickly. Some people feel he threw the officer under the bus, trying to distance himself from the situation a bit, or folded under the pressure and Spotlight.
 
And here's a good ol fashioned, short, compilation. Also includes a cop chewing out another cop for overstepping his authority. The last bit on here is something I referenced way back in here too, about a couple of guys trying to catch out an officer overstepping his boundaries while they film...but they weren't banking on him being as clued up and professional as he was.

 
There's a video on Facebook doing the rounds right now too, but I couldn't find it on YouTube to link here.

Couple of Toronto PD officers, black if it matters, getting up close and personal on someone filming an arrest based on marijuana possession (I think)

Here's a link I found, actually. The website itself obviously has its own rhetoric, make of that what you will. It does have the video however, which is fairly embarrassing in itself.

http://filmingcops.com/childish-cops-bully-citizen-for-filming/
 
There's a video on Facebook doing the rounds right now too, but I couldn't find it on YouTube to link here.

Couple of Toronto PD officers, black if it matters, getting up close and personal on someone filming an arrest based on marijuana possession (I think)

Here's a link I found, actually. The website itself obviously has its own rhetoric, make of that what you will. It does have the video however, which is fairly embarrassing in itself.

http://filmingcops.com/childish-cops-bully-citizen-for-filming/

The old man with the glasses in this video must really get under your skin, Skizzo. He claims to come from a a family of cops, but he appears to have no problems making sweeping generalisations about cops. Can't quite tell if he's been facetious here, but he seems serious enough. I have been VERY critical of US cops in certain instances, but even I cringed when I watched this.

 
The old man with the glasses in this video must really get under your skin, Skizzo. He claims to come from a a family of cops, but he appears to have no problems making sweeping generalisations about cops. Can't quite tell if he's been facetious here, but he seems serious enough. I have been VERY critical of US cops in certain instances, but even I cringed when I watched this.



Hmm, he comes off rather like a RAWk poster talking about his Manc friend to prove his points. He had two that he tried to make, one about the police dogs sniffing around, and one about cops only wanting to join for power. The first is said after "my wife's a teacher..." But I know he did podcasts with his wife (stefane Zamorano) so I'm not sure if she's a teacher as well, or it was an ex wife or something. Secondly, the long line of cops comment makes me think that either he did see some ufortunate things done (which is possible) or that he finds that helps him sound more believable if he mentions hiso g family history of cops, and all those friends he has who are cops. If you hate them so much and what they stand for, and why they do the job, why are you friends with them? Oh, because suddenly it helps you try and make a point :rolleyes:

Anyway, maybe that's the negative in me :lol: not to take away from the video, because the cop was definitely out of line there. The whole angle of the talk show of "never met a good cop" is just for the views, I feel.
 
I live in Austin and have for years. APD has a deservedly poor reputation. That being said in 8 years I haven't had a bad experience with them.

I haven't watched the video (have bad/terrible internet in Vienna right now) but from what I've read, the fact that this was caught on video in the manner it was suggests that's there was more interaction between the cops and guys preceding the video we see. Why would anyone be videoing that if there wasn't some previous back and forth which would make someone think they should bust out their phone? Sounds like the cops grossly overreacted. Based on what I've read, it sounds like the guys certainly incited it and disobeyed them. Anyone that thinks that nothing preceded the beginning of the video and the guy with the camera phone just randomly happened to catch that is naive.
 
http://nypost.com/2015/11/06/black-lives-matters-numbers-are-bogus/

Yes, some police are overzealous, twitchy-fingered and — surely — racist. NYPD Officer James Frascatore’s heavy-handed takedown of tennis player James Blake outside a Manhattan hotel in September confirms that some cops need leashes.

But the notion that America’s cops simply are gunning down innocent black people is one of today’s biggest and deadliest lies.

Make of it what you will.
 
A man got shot for trying to put down his angus on the highway(it had broken loose and attacked cars etc). The police went full retard on it with ARs but it didn't die. Ao when he arrived he put hia rifle to its head to show some mercy. A police yanked him around and a shot went off hitting the ground( as he was pointing downwards at the bull). Then two policemen shot him. See if I can find the link again later.
 

I think taking any data from the new york post is asking for trouble. Here´s a Guardian source for far far different figures:

http://www.mintpressnews.com/776-people-killed-by-police-so-far-in-2015-161-of-them-unarmed/209127/

As far as Black Lives Matter, if you want to debate the justified killings is one thing, but racism in US police forces is a massive problem, just like it is in conservative America, where most police offers come from. To continue to deny this will only make things worse.
 
I think taking any data from the new york post is asking for trouble. Here´s a Guardian source for far far different figures:

http://www.mintpressnews.com/776-people-killed-by-police-so-far-in-2015-161-of-them-unarmed/209127/

As far as Black Lives Matter, if you want to debate the justified killings is one thing, but racism in US police forces is a massive problem, just like it is in conservative America, where most police offers come from. To continue to deny this will only make things worse.
Well they do kill more whites than blacks so #whitelivesmatteraswell
 
I think taking any data from the new york post is asking for trouble. Here´s a Guardian source for far far different figures:

http://www.mintpressnews.com/776-people-killed-by-police-so-far-in-2015-161-of-them-unarmed/209127/

As far as Black Lives Matter, if you want to debate the justified killings is one thing, but racism in US police forces is a massive problem, just like it is in conservative America, where most police offers come from. To continue to deny this will only make things worse.

Hence my 'make of it what you will' comment. Plus I believe the author has been rather controversial in the past in regards to some comments he's made. I wouldn't argue this is a "neutral" source, just saw it making the rounds and passed it along :)

My own views on the BLM movement vary depending on what the actual topic of conversation is. I think the general idea is a good one, although I think the "leaders" are going about it the wrong way, and are only going to make things worse and have trouble getting widespread support in a way they need to. But that's a different conversation.
 
Well they do kill more whites than blacks so #whitelivesmatteraswell

From the same article: . . . However, activists like the members of the Black Lives Matter movement argue that police kill blacks at a rate disproportionate to their total percentage of the population — an assertion supported by The Guardian’s statistics. Police killed almost five black people per every million black residents of the U.S., compared with about 2 per million for both white and hispanic victims.

Trying to reason with reading comprehension challenged right wingers is obviously difficult.

Of course whitlivesmattersaswell and equally, and I´m sure when white people feel outraged that they're shooting too many white people unnecessarily, they will rise up. I mean, just look at the social and political and economic systems they created and attempt to perpetuate when they felt taken back by slavery being struck down and coloured people actually wanted equal rights. Oh boy, they reacted.
 
Hence my 'make of it what you will' comment. Plus I believe the author has been rather controversial in the past in regards to some comments he's made. I wouldn't argue this is a "neutral" source, just saw it making the rounds and passed it along :)

My own views on the BLM movement vary depending on what the actual topic of conversation is. I think the general idea is a good one, although I think the "leaders" are going about it the wrong way, and are only going to make things worse and have trouble getting widespread support in a way they need to. But that's a different conversation.

Yeah, I think everybody´s opinion on the BLM movement varies, as well as their support, and not many support their more radical and heavy-handed members´statements and acts.
 
Yeah, I think everybody´s opinion on the BLM movement varies, as well as their support, and not many support their more radical and heavy-handed members´statements and acts.

Obviously on the flip side, a complete ignoring of the issues caused by some racist, or just violent, officers won't help anyone back the law enforcement side either.

So far it seems there's two camps on either side of the issue, backed by supporters who are loyal to their "cause" regardless of the facts or issues. Without a coming together or both sides, or a middle ground/party, not much will be resolved satisfactorily.
 
From the same article: . . . However, activists like the members of the Black Lives Matter movement argue that police kill blacks at a rate disproportionate to their total percentage of the population — an assertion supported by The Guardian’s statistics. Police killed almost five black people per every million black residents of the U.S., compared with about 2 per million for both white and hispanic victims.

Trying to reason with reading comprehension challenged right wingers is obviously difficult.

Of course whitlivesmattersaswell and equally, and I´m sure when white people feel outraged that they're shooting too many white people unnecessarily, they will rise up. I mean, just look at the social and political and economic systems they created and attempt to perpetuate when they felt taken back by slavery being struck down and coloured people actually wanted equal rights. Oh boy, they reacted.
Doesn't that need to be put in context? Felony violent crime rates are off the top of my head about 40% committed by blacks in the U.S. (Been a while since I checked the FBi crime stats) so wouldn't that suggest that cops encounter (edit - "disproportionately more") blacks that are committing violent crimes?
 
Obviously on the flip side, a complete ignoring of the issues caused by some racist, or just violent, officers won't help anyone back the law enforcement side either.

So far it seems there's two camps on either side of the issue, backed by supporters who are loyal to their "cause" regardless of the facts or issues. Without a coming together or both sides, or a middle ground/party, not much will be resolved satisfactorily.
Doesn't that need to be put in context? Felony violent crime rates are off the top of my head about 40% committed by blacks in the U.S. (Been a while since I checked the FBi crime stats) so wouldn't that suggest that cops encounter (edit - "disproportionately more") blacks that are committing violent crimes?

Of course the context is a lower class living in unequal economic conditions in a historical racist context is going to commit more violent crime. Look anywhere in the world. BLM is going on about that cops seem to pull the trigger a lot easier when it´s a black criminal. Everyday we´re witnessing video of unarmed people getting gunned down under sketchy circumstance, usually minority suspects. A lot of what BLM is talking about can be symbolized in this video:



And BLM is about so much more than blacks getting shot. It has to do with grievances from segregated communities with little economic activities, their jobs being outsourced, their race continually being villanized by a certain political party seeking fear votes, the whole prison industrial complex that is destroying their community, the unfair drug war directed toward their communities where (symbolically) whites and blacks smoke pot at the same rates yet blacks are arrested at 3 times the rates. They are being politically attacked with voting laws, gerrymandering and the money from right wing billionaires. And the rise of domestic right wing terrorism cannot be a comforting thought. You can go on and on. I think you get the picture and can sympathise with a lot of their grievances.

And you have to scoff at these "victims" who start whining about #whitelivesmatteraswell bollocks. Of course they do. And when whites feel victimised they unleash their considerable political, economical and social power in the guise of drug wars, tough on crime, militarized police, segregation, low social investment politics, etc etc, and when the white establishment feels threatened and democracy is not serving them well enough, like they do now, they waste no time in passing voting laws, gerrymandering and freeing up enormous amount of money in politics to spread their propaganda.
 
One local PD using the body cams has scene benefits both in how their officers interact with the public but also how the public reacts to the officers. Seems being on camera puts the officers and the public on their best behavior. They have a drop in complaints filed by the public and are able to address the ones they get quickly since they can just watch the video. the officers believe that just by saying to a member of the public that their camera is recording it helps everyone to stop and think about how they are reacting to each other. Nobody wants to be recorded acting like a fool or worse.
 
From the same article: . . . However, activists like the members of the Black Lives Matter movement argue that police kill blacks at a rate disproportionate to their total percentage of the population — an assertion supported by The Guardian’s statistics. Police killed almost five black people per every million black residents of the U.S., compared with about 2 per million for both white and hispanic victims.

Trying to reason with reading comprehension challenged right wingers is obviously difficult.

Of course whitlivesmattersaswell and equally, and I´m sure when white people feel outraged that they're shooting too many white people unnecessarily, they will rise up. I mean, just look at the social and political and economic systems they created and attempt to perpetuate when they felt taken back by slavery being struck down and coloured people actually wanted equal rights. Oh boy, they reacted.

Black people in the US are more likely to be victims of violent confrontations with police than any other race because they commit more violent crimes than any race per capita. Between 1980 and 2008 blacks committed 52% of all homicides when they are only 13% of US population.
 
Of course the context is a lower class living in unequal economic conditions in a historical racist context is going to commit more violent crime. Look anywhere in the world. BLM is going on about that cops seem to pull the trigger a lot easier when it´s a black criminal. Everyday we´re witnessing video of unarmed people getting gunned down under sketchy circumstance, usually minority suspects. A lot of what BLM is talking about can be symbolized in this video:



And BLM is about so much more than blacks getting shot. It has to do with grievances from segregated communities with little economic activities, their jobs being outsourced, their race continually being villanized by a certain political party seeking fear votes, the whole prison industrial complex that is destroying their community, the unfair drug war directed toward their communities where (symbolically) whites and blacks smoke pot at the same rates yet blacks are arrested at 3 times the rates. They are being politically attacked with voting laws, gerrymandering and the money from right wing billionaires. And the rise of domestic right wing terrorism cannot be a comforting thought. You can go on and on. I think you get the picture and can sympathise with a lot of their grievances.

And you have to scoff at these "victims" who start whining about #whitelivesmatteraswell bollocks. Of course they do. And when whites feel victimised they unleash their considerable political, economical and social power in the guise of drug wars, tough on crime, militarized police, segregation, low social investment politics, etc etc, and when the white establishment feels threatened and democracy is not serving them well enough, like they do now, they waste no time in passing voting laws, gerrymandering and freeing up enormous amount of money in politics to spread their propaganda.


Nice video but we have 2 different cops, one was born in Texas and love guns and the other was born in New Jersey and he's an ass hole by nature :devil:, I own guns but I think people shouldn't be able to walk with guns like that, concealed yes with a permit and trained.
 
http://www.policeone.com/patrol-iss...-attack-on-Ala-cop-celebrated-on-social-media

Beat the officer unconscious with his own gun, then people stand around taking pictures to put up online.

@Nobby style @Edgar Allan Pillow @adexkola since you were the ones conversing about the above post with me when I put it up.

Here's some follow up on one of those who found it hilarious to take pictures and post them online. Words fail me.

http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/i...r_died_lec.html#incart_river_mobileshort_home
 
Of course the context is a lower class living in unequal economic conditions in a historical racist context is going to commit more violent crime. Look anywhere in the world. BLM is going on about that cops seem to pull the trigger a lot easier when it´s a black criminal. Everyday we´re witnessing video of unarmed people getting gunned down under sketchy circumstance, usually minority suspects. A lot of what BLM is talking about can be symbolized in this video:



And BLM is about so much more than blacks getting shot. It has to do with grievances from segregated communities with little economic activities, their jobs being outsourced, their race continually being villanized by a certain political party seeking fear votes, the whole prison industrial complex that is destroying their community, the unfair drug war directed toward their communities where (symbolically) whites and blacks smoke pot at the same rates yet blacks are arrested at 3 times the rates. They are being politically attacked with voting laws, gerrymandering and the money from right wing billionaires. And the rise of domestic right wing terrorism cannot be a comforting thought. You can go on and on. I think you get the picture and can sympathise with a lot of their grievances.

And you have to scoff at these "victims" who start whining about #whitelivesmatteraswell bollocks. Of course they do. And when whites feel victimised they unleash their considerable political, economical and social power in the guise of drug wars, tough on crime, militarized police, segregation, low social investment politics, etc etc, and when the white establishment feels threatened and democracy is not serving them well enough, like they do now, they waste no time in passing voting laws, gerrymandering and freeing up enormous amount of money in politics to spread their propaganda.


You say a lot of things here which are historically proven, and highlight the systemic racism which black people and other minorities have come up against particularly in America.

However people don't want to hear this narrative because they view it as an attack on white people, or as if minorities should just get over it because slavery isn't around anymore - as though being pro black somehow means you're anti-white. Which is one of the reasons why people don't like saying Black Lives Matter and undermine it by saying All Lives Matter, which again is one of the reasons why BLM is so important.

-----

In other news - has anybody heard of Daniel Hotlzclaw?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/daniel-holtzclaw/
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/18/daniel-holtzclaw-new-charges-oklahoma-police
http://www.vox.com/identities/2015/11/5/9676944/daniel-holtzclaw-trial-jury-race

He's an ex-cop who is due to stand trial for the sexual assault of 12 women - all black - ranging from the ages of 17-54.
Throughout the process the media has talked about his NFL background, in comparison to the women who are seen as poor, uneducated, prostitutes in some cases. That rhetoric was to be expected, however now the jury selected is not only all white, but 8 men and 4 women. The lack of representation in a jury, as has happened so often in the past means it's likely that he'll walk free.

Personally these stories are the more concerning ones, yes of course situations in which a cop kills someone whether rightly or wrongfully, black or white are terrible and I wish they wouldnt happen at the rate they do.
But this abuse of power, particularly sexual assaults has long lasting effects and raises generations of people who don't trust the police, and don't trust the justice system that's supposed to protect them either.
Then on top of that they're not seen as victims, and their cases aren't cared about, particularly when they're black.
 
@Nobby style @Edgar Allan Pillow @adexkola since you were the ones conversing about the above post with me when I put it up.

Here's some follow up on one of those who found it hilarious to take pictures and post them online. Words fail me.

http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/i...r_died_lec.html#incart_river_mobileshort_home

Not sure what your point is. I think almost everybody thought it was a douchey thing to do all around, and probably no one is surprised this criminal turned out this way.

If I recall, my comment was why, in of all places, in Birmingham Alabama, would African Americans loathe white police officers to such a degree. 300 years of words fail me.
 
Not sure what your point is. I think almost everybody thought it was a douchey thing to do all around, and probably no one is surprised this criminal turned out this way.

If I recall, my comment was why, in of all places, in Birmingham Alabama, would African Americans loathe white police officers to such a degree. 300 years of words fail me.

:lol: I'm not saying it as a point of contention, just as a follow up/update of something we discussed earlier. I tagged you and the others because you were the ones who commented on it originally.
 
@Nobby style @Edgar Allan Pillow @adexkola since you were the ones conversing about the above post with me when I put it up.

Here's some follow up on one of those who found it hilarious to take pictures and post them online. Words fail me.

http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/i...r_died_lec.html#incart_river_mobileshort_home

The officer could have died from that assault. Glad the alleged suspect has been captured and if he is found guilty I hope he goes away for a long time.