Are you saying this as in we dont have luck with injuries or that another club would look after him better?
Anderson
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Are you saying this as in we dont have luck with injuries or that another club would look after him better?
Have always been of the opinion that we've 'ruined' him, too. I'm interested if that's the view held in Portugal from our posters there, since it seems to be a common idea in Brazil. He was definitely a number 10 when we signed him, one of the many heirs to Ronaldinho etc. etc. and was considered to have future World Player of the Year potential.
It's not just a case of him not reaching that potential, the club has constrained the most exciting elements of his game by moving him back down the pitch. Part of that is very few teams playing with a true number 10 in England, the other is Fergie/the club seeing something in his game that suggested he could play deeper. It has to have been more than just his physical frame that made them think that, but in his time at the club I don't think he's given any indication in his play that he can manage a deeper role. He's nowhere near positionally disciplined enough.
His age for me is no indication that he will get better. Age is just a number that is only important because it's usually tied to a point in a player's development. In Anderson's case, he is physically mature, so time will not make him better in that regard. Technical play and positional awareness can always improve with time but they're obviously not tied to age, but the amount of time a player has had at the top level. Anderson was part of first team squads at the age of 16, I do not believe his ceiling is that much higher than it already is.
People will point to the great form he showed at the start of the season, but for me that didn't really change anything. Along with Cleverley, his attacking play was great but those games were crapshoots, the team offered no protection for the defence. He maybe has a role to play alongside someone like Carrick but I don't believe he will turn into the great midfielder we all want. I see it more as being a choice between Anderson and Cleverley and I imagine the former will return to Brazil in the summer. Hopefully he instead proves once again that I know nothing.
It's not just a case of him not reaching that potential, the club has constrained the most exciting elements of his game by moving him back down the pitch. Part of that is very few teams playing with a true number 10 in England, the other is Fergie/the club seeing something in his game that suggested he could play deeper. It has to have been more than just his physical frame that made them think that, but in his time at the club I don't think he's given any indication in his play that he can manage a deeper role. He's nowhere near positionally disciplined enough.
His age for me is no indication that he will get better. Age is just a number that is only important because it's usually tied to a point in a player's development. In Anderson's case, he is physically mature, so time will not make him better in that regard. Technical play and positional awareness can always improve with time but they're obviously not tied to age, but the amount of time a player has had at the top level. Anderson was part of first team squads at the age of 16, I do not believe his ceiling is that much higher than it already is.
People will point to the great form he showed at the start of the season, but for me that didn't really change anything. Along with Cleverley, his attacking play was great but those games were crapshoots, the team offered no protection for the defence. He maybe has a role to play alongside someone like Carrick but I don't believe he will turn into the great midfielder we all want. I see it more as being a choice between Anderson and Cleverley and I imagine the former will return to Brazil in the summer. Hopefully he instead proves once again that I know nothing.
Or seeing something that meant he shouldn't play further forwards? The paltry goal-scoring record at Porto for starters.
The whole "United ruined him" idea is just frustrated fans trying to blame the club for a young footballer failing to deliver on his potential. Which is silly, when you consider how often other, equally hyped, youngsters fail to deliver at other clubs and Fergie's track record at making stars out of kids that came from the same league. If anything, Anderson's chronic lack of stamina (in the vast majority of games he's ran out of gas long before the end) point towards a lack of discipline and effort being the main issue here.
Whatever, he won't be the first "the next x, y, z" to turn out never to deliver on his early promise. Nor will fans stop blaming the club at which their inadequacies are eventually exposed. In reality, though, it's just one of those things. Which is why it's always been a mugs game predicting how great a player any talented teenager will eventually become.
He's not got the goal scoring instincts or technique of a second striker.
I think he'd be better in a 3 but I wouldn't say he'll ever be a big scoring attacking midfielder. Regardless of it we've played him more deep than he would have liked etc we wouldn't have really affected his shooting and composure, two things he doesn't really have nor shown in his time here.
I think though he would be good as an attacking mid though in the sense of driving forward with the ball, particularly on the break. That's why he's always at the best in open games, he has space to run in to.
I think though he would be good as an attacking mid though in the sense of driving forward with the ball, particularly on the break. That's why he's always at the best in open games, he has space to run in to.
In terms of English football he's definitely lacking as teams have tended to play with either deep lying strikers or midfielders who break late into attacking positions. It's why it's weird that we signed such a player. The goalscoring is a fair point, his finishing has always looked horrible while with us. Before he joined us and moved deeper, his goals to games ratio wasn't that far off though (playmakers can average...1 in 6)? Someone like Silva doesn't have to score a great deal of goals.
I generally agree with the idea of the club ruining players being a stupid one (on the Rooney point mentioned earlier though, Ferguson has said that he too often sacrificed Rooney's own abilities for the team). To spend that amount of money on a reclamation project seems like an unusual gamble though.
The point about us curbing his ability isn't that he's failed to reach his potential, he's playing in a completely different position now, so we'll never know. Maybe it's completely right that he'd never have become a fantastic playmaker. However, the attacking parts of his game have actually regressed since he's been at the club, while he hasn't shown much improvement in terms of awareness of play and being able to handle the game from a deeper position. The fantasy has left his game, if he moved further up the pitch again I think he'd be a worse player than when he came to us. I'm not trying to absolve the player, all I care is what he does for the team, not his career arc. I just think we're expecting him to become something he'll never be able to.
Completely disagree with you. It will be his physical condition, the fact that he has only played max 15 games per season, and takes a long time to get match fit after being injured. So we can't see a sustained improvement!
II think he's quite a clever footballer - he's a creative player who is technically very good, he has good passing ability, the ability to see the pass and play one-touch passing. Him and Cleverley were devastating at the beginning of the season and watch back and you don't see a player lacking brains!!!
That said my bet would be on SAF letting him go and trying to get 6-10m for him to fund other players. The alternative is to accept that he'll only be available for a few matches per season.
If Anderson is as good technically and as clever as you make out, then I'd guess we will persevere with him. He is still young and he can get over his injury woes.
However, I just don't think he's that clever myself. He has all the tools to be a good player and this is why you see it now and then, as we did at the beginning of the season. He just doesn't seem to know how to put it all together consistently.
He seems to play every game as if its a knock about with his mates. If he messes up, he just apologises and carries on, but he never seems to learn from his mistakes. How many times I've seen him try that long ball over the top and into the path of a winger, only for him to overhit it and send it out for a goal kick. Yet he'll try it again and again with the same results. This is why I don't think he's that bright.
You're the one whose mind is made up that this is some sort of unfair unreasonable assessment of Anderson. I mean, I've just presented you a picture from August 2010 (right after he returned from his Jan 2010 knee injury) where he looks considerably fatter than he was in any pre-injury pic of him, but yet you're dancing around the facts talking about his untucked shirt, comparing him to Valencia instead of his pre-injury self, and what not.
And you simply can't comprehend something as simple fact that pictures are not always telling because there have been numerous pictures showing a "fat" Anderson and in the next he looks anything but overweight.
Oh well keep thinking that one off pics are proof of your view.
Am more inclined to believe our manager wouldn't stand for a "fat" player to where it affects their on field performances and at the end of games when without his shirt that have shown he doesn't carry much fat if any at all.
You are honestly making no sense to me here. My view is simply that he came back from his knee injury considerably fatter, and I've presented a picture in which that fact is clear. Anyone would look at any pre-injury Anderson pic and agree he put on a lot of weight. So unless you're saying the picture is made up or doctored I don't understand what your beef is. Claiming you remember seeing pictures in which he didn't look that fat doesn't say anything about the validity of this particular picture... maybe you saw pics of him before his injury, or maybe you just didn't notice the weight because you weren't that familiar with Anderson pre-injury, or maybe you saw pics of him after he'd shed a few pounds having been back in training for a while (its possible to lose weight, which he obviously did) - I don't know.
And playing the SAF card doesn't really make any sense here either as none of us know what his views were on Anderson's weight after he returned from his knee injury. But I doubt SAF would have stuck with him if he had remained that fat permanently... he's much leaner now.
What I am saying is one picture doesn't tell the story as it has been shown some pictures can be very unflattering, like the picture you provided as proof. My earlier point is the untucked shirt might contribute to that unflattering look.
I didn't say the picture was doctored, just offered that you can't use it as definitive proof as you claim it to be. It's a picture in which he looks big but, unless you have any further information, it's far from proof.
And even if he came back heavy, it doesn't speak to lack of drive on his part as he was coming back from an injury where am sure he wasn't able to exercise enough to keep the weight off. He was obviously able to shed it per your standards if he is now leaner, so it's not a matter of lack of drive on his part to stay fit / in shape.
What you're saying would make sense if it was borderline, but its not. If you compare that pic to any pre-injury, its obvious, even his face is much chubbier.
if anything, Anderson opens up the game more when he drives at them from deep lying positions
Its horseshit that he's a number 10. He cant shoot, and his passing is erratic.
Its horseshit that he's a number 10. He cant shoot, and his passing is erratic.
Is passing is sloppy and his shooting is the most in the league.
He had a lovely burst of pace but we haven't seen that for a while.
I highly doubt he will make it here to be honest.
He had a lovely burst of pace but we haven't seen that for a while.
I highly doubt he will make it here to be honest.
His passing is sloppy and his shooting is the worst in the league*
fecking iPad auto spell
fecking iPad auto spell
apparently according to the times, fergie will listen to offers for anderson
Wouldn't really surprise me if we were signing both Kagawa and Hazard. If not (more likely) then I hope we keep him.
I think its time personally. Pity really.
He's never fulfilled his initial potential, now he may go on to do that elsewhere but he isnt the answer now and in terms of the future we cant wait anymore imo.
Bar a couple of genuinely outstanding performances his general level of consistency simple isnt good enough. Injuries have played a part but to blame it all on them is a weak excuse. His personality does him a lot of favours with fans it seems.
He's never fulfilled his initial potential, now he may go on to do that elsewhere but he isnt the answer now and in terms of the future we cant wait anymore imo.
Bar a couple of genuinely outstanding performances his general level of consistency simple isnt good enough. Injuries have played a part but to blame it all on them is a weak excuse. His personality does him a lot of favours with fans it seems.
Maybe it's for the best.
His ass is going to be fecking huge after his injury lay-off.
His ass is going to be fecking huge after his injury lay-off.
Easy rumor to put out there, would make sense to many considering his injury problems, but I don't think he'll be leaving. SAF made a comment just a week or two ago talking about Ando as if he's very much part of his future plans.
Here's the article (credit to @will_lumb):
The news has surprised me as Fergie has talked a few times as if Anderson will be there next season. From what the article says Fergie is not actively trying to sell Anderson but will listen to offers if any come in so there is a chance he won't be sold in this window and I would be surprised if he is. I reckon he'll be given another chance next season. Unfortunately for him his United career has been plagued with injuries and he's not had a run of games which he needs.
Yeah unless we're doing a major overhaul or get a silly bid I can't see it. Fergie's comments a few weeks ago suggested that he still had faith in him to pull it all together.
I'm sure we would listen offer for any other player, so that's not some big news.
I thought it was fairly significant at the tail end of last season Sir Alex spoke about Carrick and Cleverley's abilities in midfield and nobody else. It suggested to me that Ando among others might be under threat. Its a shame because when Ando is good he's really good but he seems, for whatever reason, to be unable to maintain a streak of good form for a prolonged period of time.
A bit of a nothing article really. The journo hasn't really committed one way or the other probably so he can still claim to be right whatever happens.
Is it possible to name one United player who isn't or will not be in the media as speculation for who Ferguson may let go? We already have had talks of Nani, Rio, Vidic, Rafael and Fabio on the top of my head. So who is next? I suppose it was about time they talked about a central midfielder.
Anderson has massive potential, but there are concerns he may never fulfill those in a physical league as the PL. However, I think Ferguson is willing to give him one more chance as we saw glimpses this season of what he can become. His acceleration is second to few and his technique and ability to surge forward past two or even three defenders in one turn or one burst of speed is something our other midfielders lack. I once thought he was going to be a world beater, now I'm not so sure, but I still think he can become a very good player.
Anderson has massive potential, but there are concerns he may never fulfill those in a physical league as the PL. However, I think Ferguson is willing to give him one more chance as we saw glimpses this season of what he can become. His acceleration is second to few and his technique and ability to surge forward past two or even three defenders in one turn or one burst of speed is something our other midfielders lack. I once thought he was going to be a world beater, now I'm not so sure, but I still think he can become a very good player.
Who would actually buy him?
Considering he's not at the Owen or Hargreaves stage yet where he's not completely crocked for eternity, I'm sure plenty of clubs would at least display some interest.
He'd comfortably be able to make it into a lot of mid-table sides in the league, so I'm sure some of them would maybe be willing to take a punt on him.
I would imagine he would move abroad rather than stay in England...
Possibly, but that's just an example I gave. Either way, I doubt he would struggle too much to find a club.
Anderson has the makings of a great player unfortunately for one reason or another it seems that he's not able to use his full potential where it matters. He had his share of injuries + his attitude problems (getting unfit, the rumor partying issues etc) had an effect on the boy's talent. I wonder if a one year loan to a club who won't offer him the 5 star service United gives, will do him some good.
We'd get a very small amount for him compared to what he could potentially be worth if he could manage to stay free from injury for a season. I think he's worth persevering with for that reason, for probably another season.
Tbf, i think you're reading far too much into that. Dont you remember how we sold Veron?
Probably a Roma or a Sevilla might be in for him?
Anderson is going no where
I think time will prove you wrong eventually.
If someone comes in and puts 10m on the table, we'll grab his hand. But that's not too likely.
It wont. I don't expect him to be going any where this summer save for a holiday to Brazil.
I don't see why we wouldn't be looking for takers if they are any, he's simply not reliable enough in terms of performance when fit or fitness itself.
He strikes me as somebody who enjoys everything about being a footballer except the professional part. Wouldn't be surprised or majorly disapointed to see him sold this summer. Simply hasn't done it often enough to warrant chances ahead of some of the players who we could bring in his place.
He strikes me as somebody who enjoys everything about being a footballer except the professional part. Wouldn't be surprised or majorly disapointed to see him sold this summer. Simply hasn't done it often enough to warrant chances ahead of some of the players who we could bring in his place.
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