At this point is there anything that isn't "typical Caf"?
Anderson
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This thread is testament to the fact that Anderson really splits opinion amongst fans. I personally think he is a brilliant player but it has only been shown in spurts. Imo the only thing he is currently lacking is consistency (mostly injury related) and that's maybe what makes some of his detractors more reluctant to heap praise on him.
Excellent post Rossa.
"I love it here. I find it to be a perfect blend of reasoned argument and light hearted humour. That is why I come back every day."
I dont think that is a very typical caf comment.
I dont think that is a very typical caf comment.
I really don't know how you could call him a 'brilliant' player there really is no tangible evidence to support that view. Has he ever put in a show stopping performance for us a la Robin Van Persie or Ronaldo? They are brilliant players btw.
For me he is usually a 6/10, a guy who sometimes throws a few 7 & 8's out there.
I suppose it's a matter of opinion but I think Anderson has shown his brilliance but its currently still mostly potential because he hasn't yet managed to do it over a prolonged period.
Of the top of my head, this season, that QPR game he came on I thought he was great, the Reading game too before he got injured and the Chelsea league cup game. I thought his performance in all three was more than a 7 or 8 but like I said it's in bursts.
He will never get the plaudits of Ronaldo or RvP, and no one is claiming he is on their level either, but he has put in some great performances at times for us it's just unfortunate that he hasn't gone on a really good run yet.
Well it is knee jerk in a sense that most of the posts I read aren't criticising his game against southampton but his overall displays again or his whole carreer here. Now that is very much knee jerk after one bad game when he actually looked very good apart from that game for almost one and a half years now whenever given the chance and fit.
The fans that come here rambling about how good he is ramble about that performance. Same should be done about a bad one. He played shit against Southampton, but hey, it's not like he played shit for the whole of the season.
That's what gets me.
He had a poor game vs Southampton, but it's not all that worrying. The main thing is that he's stringed a few good performances together and for now, I'll write that last game down as a bad say in the office. It's not like he was the only below-par performer that night anyway.
Hopefully he turns it around vs Fulham, if he's involved.
Hopefully he turns it around vs Fulham, if he's involved.
See above. Criticising a bad performance is well enough. I did it as well. I thought he was shit against Southampton. I don't take personal offence at all though nor do I want to look like a better fan or some shit. I'm just a bloke posting in a forum I don't really give a feck what others on here think.
I just can't stand it if people take one bad performance from a player (regardless of who it is) and go totally overboard. He was very good this season when given the chance. Same was more or less last year. Problem with him are obviously much more his injuries but that's something everyone's aware of anyway.
So let's move on and hope that this performance was a one-off.
That's Anderson in soundbites.
I said something like I'd eat my own shit if he came good this season.
Looks like I won't be dining on that particular delight. Decent enough but too unrealiable.
Looks like I won't be dining on that particular delight. Decent enough but too unrealiable.
You're an arsehole and seem to want to turn every thread into a personal battle with someone or other.
People like you are whats wrong with the internet - condescending keyboard warrior.
I'll leave it at that- despite the fact that you make some good points, to which I'd probably like to respond, and would have done were you not such a cretin about it.
Anderson in a nutshell....
I find it funny the outrage here at times when he is criticised. He's here nearly 6 years now, thats a long time. Hes still not someone I can ever fully trust. Not in the way you could with a fully fit Fletcher.
Now compare both their respective journeys with United and the abuse Fletcher got here at times was so much worse. It seems to me that Anderson's happy go lucky personality grants him extra levels of patience with fans.
Im not saying he hasnt improved somewhat but personally I expect more from him and I think the club should as well. His stamina issues should be a thing of the past after 6 years here. The fact that they arent makes me think he'll never be the player we need him to be on a consistant basis.
I'm really not.
Spot on.
Understandably fans will be excited when the club goes out and spends big money on a young player - in this case a Brazilian with a bit of flair, who seems to be highly rated.
We're obviously all hopeful said player will make the grade, and I can see why fans will want to defend him, but to me it eventually becomes "blind faith".
He's evidently a better player than when he signed, but he hasn't progressed into the staple forst team regular that he could have. For me if a player is going to do that he usually has by the time he's hit his mid twenties.
Put simply, for me he doesn't play well enough, often enough. It'd be great if he could get fit, get a run and be a regular, but with every passing season of numerous niggles and below par performances smattered with 8 out of tens I think it becomes less likely.
Agree particularly with your point re other players - seems Anderson gets cut a lot more slack than some others.
So I'm an arsehole because I called out your post claiming that Anderson is "going backwards" is nonsense and then just 2 posts down you agree with me
So I'm an arsehole because I called out your post claiming that Anderson is "going backwards" is nonsense and then just 2 posts down you agree with me
Don't take things so literally. Evidently only a fool would think I meant he's not as good as he was when he was a 19 year old fresh in the country.
My point was that his fitness is getting worse, and as a result he's playing less games and becoming less of a fixture in the side. I don't see that he progressed all that much from where he was a few seasons ago and if anything is less reliable than he was.
In the 2010/11 season and up to Christmas 2011 he looked like he'd turned it around, but since then performances (and appearences) have been sporadic - so to me, he's gone backwards from then.
And I called you an arsehole not because you have a different opinion, which is your perogative, but because of the snide remarks and the fact that you seem to hold a pretty high opinion of yourself.
I get the 6 years argument. But hasn't a good chunk of that time been spent on the treatment table? For a young lad, it's not really helpful for your development. He's now 24 reaching 25 with a chance to get some regular games. I agree with the notion that he's been fortunate Sir Alex hasn't brought in a new CM but maybe part of that has to do with SAF still having some belief in him.
It may feel like he's going backwards because he hasn't fulfilled the initial expectations but are you going backwards if you're showing some improvement in your game? I still maintain it may not have been the best idea to try and convert Anderson into a disciplined midfielder who can get up and down the pitch as a sort of box-to-box type midfielder. You can still see his tendencies to play as an attacking mid more so than a centre mid.
Comparing Anderson's trajectory to Rooney, Ronaldo and other players who have developed well here is a bit harsh when they've spent much less time on the treatment table. That has to be factored in for me simply because I think he's missed out on some quality time to really develop his game. I still think he can make a name for himself here but not to the extent most of us had initially hoped.
It may feel like he's going backwards because he hasn't fulfilled the initial expectations but are you going backwards if you're showing some improvement in your game? I still maintain it may not have been the best idea to try and convert Anderson into a disciplined midfielder who can get up and down the pitch as a sort of box-to-box type midfielder. You can still see his tendencies to play as an attacking mid more so than a centre mid.
Comparing Anderson's trajectory to Rooney, Ronaldo and other players who have developed well here is a bit harsh when they've spent much less time on the treatment table. That has to be factored in for me simply because I think he's missed out on some quality time to really develop his game. I still think he can make a name for himself here but not to the extent most of us had initially hoped.
Just to sum up my view as a few posters think I'm against Anderson. I'm not I'm a fan of Anderson but I get caught up with a few posters who blindly refuse to acknowledge the facts.
1. He hasn't lived up to the expectations or price tag
2. He has had 5 years
3. There is a cycle when he plays well then gets injured
4. Fitness levels (60 min man)
5. Lack of goals
It's frustrating as his talent is enormous but I think if Fergie gets a couple of replacements in the midfield then he is struggling. Hopefully he'll come good but I'm not holding my breath anymore it's more likely he'll not.
1. He hasn't lived up to the expectations or price tag
2. He has had 5 years
3. There is a cycle when he plays well then gets injured
4. Fitness levels (60 min man)
5. Lack of goals
It's frustrating as his talent is enormous but I think if Fergie gets a couple of replacements in the midfield then he is struggling. Hopefully he'll come good but I'm not holding my breath anymore it's more likely he'll not.
Not to sound overly harsh, but the fitness table shouldn't really be used as an excuse for a professional footballer. The club shouldn't be getting sentimental or giving him so many chances just because he's had injuries.
Although I agree with you to a certain extent, I think we have to remember the amount of time effort and money that has been put into Anderson. Of course United will give him every chance they can, until they are absolute certain that Anderson is not the man for United, we will continue to back him. It would be disastrous if we let him go before his peak years, only for him to then find and maintain that extra gear we know he has.
The problem for me is that our continued hope and reliance on him 'coming good' has clearly impacted our decisions to sign (or not sign) other midfielders, and I don't think that should be the case because after six years we still haven't a clue how reliable he is. I've no problem keeping him at the club but it should not be at the expense of strengthening our rather weak midfield, not anymore.
In general no it shouldn't. I'm not trying to make it out to be an excuse. I do think however, the injuries Anderson suffered and the length of time he's been out has somewhat stalled his progress.
I think the issue is two-fold. One part is we haven't brought in a new CM that would justify offloading Anderson. The other part is we don't currently have a midfielder in our ranks that has Anderson's qualities and our golden oldies are near the end. Until Fergie dips into the market, I don't see us selling Anderson despite reports we were looking to sell him this past summer.
I don't think we should sell him by the way, but at this stage that's more to do with the fact that our midfield is going to be so short in numbers in the Summer more than his actual talent.
This was always going to happen after his next bad game. Oh the caf.
I really get troubled with the constant 'late development' comparisons with Ronaldo, that get applied to many players. Ronaldo was an extra special talent and that much was obvious to the whole world whilst he was still a teenager. For example, I remember reading an interview with Luis Figo before Euro 2004 where he stated with confidence that Ronaldo would be the best player in the world.
There were some naysayers in the English media; Hanson and Macari being two that particularly annoyed me; but there were many more who could see the obvious and rare talent. Remember that at 19 he made the FA Cup final his own and that summer he made the Euro 2004 team of the tournament. We don't have any young players in the squad, at the moment, who are as talented as him.
There were some naysayers in the English media; Hanson and Macari being two that particularly annoyed me; but there were many more who could see the obvious and rare talent. Remember that at 19 he made the FA Cup final his own and that summer he made the Euro 2004 team of the tournament. We don't have any young players in the squad, at the moment, who are as talented as him.
Still feel the same but ultimately we cant wait forever either. its gona be a tough call when it happens.
Its not like he brings us at his best something that is so unique and ground breaking it can't be found elsewhere.
When does his current contract run out?
Well Anderson was hyped up as the best young attacking midfielder in the world before we signed him, there was massive hype. He got that European Golden Boy award (or whatever it's called) in 2008 too I think. The hype for him back then was similar to the hype around the likes of Gotze now. Most people expected him to go on to really great things.
Which he might still do but I agree Cina, it shouldn't come at the expense of strengthening our midfield. One of the things I think is holding us back from moving forward as a team.
I've seen nothing in the last few years to suggest Anderson will become one of the greatest midfielders in the world. Compare him to Wilshire or Gotze (who are much younger too) for example and you see the difference.
He can still be a very good one, but it's hard to imagine him being in the really top bracket, which a lot of us used to think he would be.
He can still be a very good one, but it's hard to imagine him being in the really top bracket, which a lot of us used to think he would be.
I get this whole 'we can't keep waiting' theory, but I don't get it much in the context that he has had a largely excellent season. he played his first bad game in ages and people are now saying he should be sold.
RVP, Nani, Carrick and a few more also had fairly poor games by their standards too. I'm not Anderson's biggest fan, but he has being playing well before the last game. He's being singled out just because of his injury problems, it seems.
"Doing great things" doesn't necessarily mean top bracket though does it Cina? Just saying he could still become a very good player for us.
I don't think Ferguson will be in a rush to sell Anderson, unless he states his intent to move on. Not often we sell players his age who have been at the club for a few years already. We won't get a lot of money back for him so he's gone from a £20m man full of potential to a good squad player. Gibson was extremely limited and players like O'Shea and Brown were in the latter stages of their career. I can't think of many players recently we've moved on who have played so many games for us in their mid 20's. Only Ronaldo..
It's very strange indeed.
Lads, he's just back from injury and he was poor in a game in which pretty much everyone was poor. Before the injury he'd just hit some superb form. So here's a novel idea, let's give it a month or two and see how this goes for him, can he hit that top level again quickly and if he does, can he get stay injury free and get some consistency with it? After a very decent first game back before this and that ball to Rooney, surely we can forgive him one poor game?
Rinse and repeat.
Can't disagree with that Cina. I've said plenty of times, Anderson's injuries have always stopped us getting an idea of the consistency levels he can reach, and maybe injuries will keep doing that as you say.
All I'm saying here though is, it's the first poor game in a long time, Carrick and Smalling were also very bad amongst others and I just don't think that deserves the level of negative debate that has started in here again.
I have never seen any evidence of that billing with my own eyes. Like I said earlier in the thread: I don't remember any show stopping performances from him. Someone mentioned the Chelsea game earlier in the season, well he was very good but it was hardly breathtaking stuff that you would associate with a future Ballon D'Or. Nonetheless, he was billed as being the best young player in Europe by one of our scouts and won the Golden Ball at the U17 World Cup, I can't argue with that.
Just a small sample of the hype beforehand, and then of course we had that match against Arsenal where we were overrun in midfield yet Anderson came out with the plaudits because of a couple of highlight moments in his individual "battle" with the best young midfielder in Europe.
Plus the BBC report:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/6707383.stm
Mate, that performancce wasn't the problem for me. He was rubbish but so were others. The problem is that we're still basically at the exact same situation with Anderson that we were two or three years ago. It's outrageous that he still can't play more than 60 minutes a game without being knackered (which to be fair, Cleverley is guilty of too). Injuries or not, he's almost 25 now, he should be hitting his peak physically. Nani for instance came back and in his first start played a full game, after two months out.
I think there needs to come a certain point where we just throw in the towel and stop fecking relying on him to turn into this once hyped up super great midfielder we all thought he could be, and go buy some other midfielders. I don't think we should sell him, but enough is enough, if by this Summer he hasn't shown his worth then we need to give up on the idea of him being the solution to our midfield woes, and go buy some others.
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