Barcelona vs. Manchester United

peterstorey said:
The argument by Mike dahn sarf is that you're the second best team in Europe since you got to the final. I'm just pointing out that you only did so by avoiding playing Barca until the final.
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Well if we aren't the second best team in Europe, then who the hell is?

Real Madrid? They haven't won any major trophies in years. The Italian teams? Spurs beat them. Who else? Let me guess, Arsenal?
 
Cutch said:
You're seriously saying if the Rooney goal had been disallowed, the following 55 minutes would have panned out exactly the same way?
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I saw nothing from United apart from the first 10 minutes to think any differently. You got your goal and then Barca stepped it up a few gears. I think they'd have stepped it up anyway even if you didn't get the goal..they wouldn't have settled for the vulnerability of being just a goal up. You can't make much of an argument for United since they didn't really show anything to merit the viewpoint that they'd have got something out of the game.
 
peterstorey said:
You're not the second best team in Europe you just had a easy route to the final - if you played Barca earlier you'd have got the bum's rush right there.
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3 finals in 4 years. Apart from Barcelona, who else is as consistent in Europe?

Well next time Arsenal want an 'easier' route, maybe they should try and win their group. Just a thought.
 
TheHorse'sMouth said:
I saw nothing from United apart from the first 10 minutes to think any differently. You got your goal and then Barca stepped it up a few gears. I think they'd have stepped it up anyway even if you didn't get the goal..they wouldn't have settled for the vulnerability being just a goal up. You can't make much of an argument for United since they didn't really show anything to merit the viewpoint that they'd have got something out of the game.
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You may think that and you may be right, but you cant present it as fact when you know anything could have happened.
 
TheHorse'sMouth said:
I see you're conveniently forgetting you were absolute dogshite in the biggest game of your season and were it not for an offside goal, you'd have ended the night with 0 shots on target as well on home soil.

Your argument that you'd have had Barca's number over two legs doesn't stack up well either..the reason you've failed against them is your inability to keep hold of the ball and string a few passes together. You're midfield is terrible and would have been politely fecked over the course of two legs.
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Who is this shit storey wannabe, and who promoted him?

I'm not conveniently forgetting anything. In a one off game on neutral territory Barcelona will beat us 9 times out of 10. feck this home soil bullshit - Wembley is not our home, we didn't have a support advantage, and our record there should tell you all you need to know about whether we get any morale boost from playing there.

I'm not saying we'd have Barca's number in a two-legged tie either, I just think we'd fare much better. You can't just ignore our home record in a two legged tie. We have the best home record in Europe. Barca are no great shakes away from home, so I'd give us far more of a chance than in a one-off final. Our supposedly terrible midfield usually gets the better of every other midfield it comes up against, especially at home. Even away from home we've given the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal a schooling in Europe in recent years, and our European away record in general is second to none.

Barcelona would still be favourites and they'd dominate, but I'd much prefer to face them over 180 minutes, home and away, than in a one-off final. A final is a straight match-up, seeing who's the best team under entirely even circumstances, and clearly they are, so they'll win. A two-legged tie allows you to be a bit more crafty, tactical, you can focus on an away goal, or keeping a clean sheet at home. And we've been brilliant in two-legged ties for years - they suit us perfectly.
 
Kraftwerker said:
Who is this shit storey wannabe, and who promoted him?

I'm not conveniently forgetting anything. In a one off game on neutral territory Barcelona will beat us 9 times out of 10. feck this home soil bullshit - Wembley is not our home, we didn't have a support advantage, and our record there should tell you all you need to know about whether we get any morale boost from playing there.

I'm not saying we'd have Barca's number in a two-legged tie either, I just think we'd fare much better. You can't just ignore our home record in a two legged tie. We have the best home record in Europe. Barca are no great shakes away from home, so I'd give us far more of a chance than in a one-off final. Our supposedly terrible midfield usually gets the better of every other midfield it comes up against, especially at home. Even away from home we've given the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal a schooling in Europe in recent years, and our European away record in general is second to none.

Barcelona would still be favourites and they'd dominate, but I'd much prefer to face them over 180 minutes, home and away, than in a one-off final. A final is a straight match-up, seeing who's the best team under entirely even circumstances, and clearly they are, so they'll win. A two-legged tie allows you to be a bit more crafty, tactical, you can focus on an away goal, or keeping a clean sheet at home. And we've been brilliant in two-legged ties for years - they suit us perfectly.
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Behave. Your midfield this year has been shite in comparison to previous years. As I stated before, your main problem against them was the inability to string a few passes together as well as isolating Rooney and Hernandez. Your problem lies in the sense that you can't get enough people up to support Rooney and Hernandez when you do get the ball. In a two-legged tie, I don't see United getting a victory at the Camp Nou (Barca's record there is formidable) and while you may fare better at OT, I can't see Barca not scoring at least one away goal regardless of the result.

You may be right in that you have more of a chance in a two-legged tie, but I really don't think it's a matter of great significance to the quality of opposition you're up against..perhaps a case of delaying the inevitable. You did well to get to the final this year, but if we're completely honest the lineup of sides you faced on your route to the final was considerably easier than the lineup Barca faced.
 
TheHorse'sMouth said:
Behave. Your midfield this year has been shite in comparison to previous years. As I stated before, your main problem against them was the inability to string a few passes together as well as isolating Rooney and Hernandez. Your problem lies in the sense that you can't get enough people up to support Rooney and Hernandez when you do get the ball. In a two-legged tie, I don't see United getting a victory at the Camp Nou (Barca's record there is formidable) and while you may fare better at OT, I can't see Barca not scoring at least one away goal regardless of the result.
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Those are your predictions. All I'm saying is it would be a lot closer in a two legged tie. You're ignoring our home and away record in two-legged ties, both of which are the best around. Our midfield hasn't been shite, it has been capable enough to dominate and beat every single side but Barcelona (unless you think basically every team in Europe has a shite midfield?).

Our tactics were wrong against Barca, I agree. I'm sure our tactical approach to a two-legged tie would've been much better though, as it usually is. Barca have drawn blanks away to much worse teams than us, so I wouldn't be ruling that out. We just don't really concede goals at home.

You may be right in that you have more of a chance in a two-legged tie, but I really don't think it's a matter of great significance to the quality of opposition you're up against..perhaps a case of delaying the inevitable. You did well to get to the final this year, but if we're completely honest the lineup of sides you faced on your route to the final was considerably easier than the lineup Barca faced.
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Barca faced Arsenal, Shaktar and Real. One poor, one mediocre and one very good.

We faced Marseille, Shalke, and Chelsea. One poor, one mediocre and one very good.

Obviously we both benefited from finishing top of our group, so you can't really cane us for the easy first round draw as that's a reward of group topping.

If Inter had beaten Shalke, our draw beyond the first round would've read Chelsea, Inter, Barca, which would be the reigning champions from each of the three big leagues. They couldn't beat them though - not our problem, but it's not like Shalke just found themselves in the semi through playing cannon fodder, so this easy draw stuff is a complete misnomer.
 
Arsenal could not manage a shot on goal in their last match against Barca...

It is a pointless debate. If Arsenal fans want to play the "we would have done it better" card, try getting into (and winning) some European finals before you begin preaching to the illustrious Manchester United Football Club.
 
Er, the thread won't die till the pre-season games start, lads.

So, have we established that we'd have had a better chance, still probably lost but not been totally humiliated, if we hadn't played a two-man centre midfield of Carrick and Giggs against a three-man midfield that's one of the greatest of all time?
 
Maybe if our three man midfield was Fabregas, Essien and Schweinsteiger?
 
Plechazunga said:
Er, the thread won't die till the pre-season games start, lads.

So, have we established that we'd have had a better chance, still probably lost but not been totally humiliated, if we hadn't played a two-man centre midfield of Carrick and Giggs against a three-man midfield that's one of the greatest of all time?
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doubtful.

we play barca on the 30th. if they tika-taka us to humiliation again (though they will be without messi) you can be sure that this thread and that matchday thread will keep going on.
 
I enjoy it when supporters of other teams contribute a sensible and reasoned opinion on various things at our club, even if I don't agree with the point they are making, and sometimes they can introduce a fresh point of view.

That hasn't happened in this thread, I have never read so much shite by someone who should spend more time pondering the much bigger issues at his / her own club. Telling us we are second best to Barcelona is something we all know, if you are so smart, piss off and give Wenger a hand, he obviously needs your help.
 
Red For Ever said:
I enjoy it when supporters of other teams contribute a sensible and reasoned opinion on various things at our club, even if I don't agree with the point they are making, and sometimes they can introduce a fresh point of view.

That hasn't happened in this thread, I have never read so much shite by someone who should spend more time pondering the much bigger issues at his / her own club. Telling us we are second best to Barcelona is something we all know, if you are so smart, piss off and give Wenger a hand, he obviously needs your help.
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Moral of the story: Don't dish it out if you can't take it ;)
 
TheHorse'sMouth said:
The two games would have nothing in common so I don't know why you attempt to make the link..
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That my friend is the reason why you's havent won anything in 6 years. Its like you's lot devalue trophy's without looking at the psychological importance winning give a team. Its a trophy at the end of the season to show the fans that all their support & hard-earned money spent on the club was worth it.

Winning breeds a winning mentality. Same thing happened with us when we won the League Cup in 2005/06 season. Chelsea had won the league that season & the season before. That bred confidence & a platform to win much more. We won the League for the next three years, a League Cup & a Champions League aswell..

Winning is an addiction to a football team when you've won something. Thats why City fans are harpin on about the FA Cup so much & they'd be right... but there's a helluva lot of competition for those Cups now & without Tevez they're a different team. Hope to feck he fecks off!
 
Its hard to say this but Fergie really did get it wrong.

And even if he got it right (packing the midfield, playing Nani) Barca most likely would have won because they have more quality in the midfield.

Rooney, Fabio, Rio and Vidic were the only players who looked like they could play with Barca.

I think this lineup could have stifled Barca and given us a better chance to win the game:

--------VDS-----------
Fabio Rio Vidic Evra
-----Carrick-Park-----
Valencia Anderson --Nani
--------Rooney-------

Harsh on Giggs but to play against Barca you really need a crazy amount of energy and Giggs would be better suited for a bench role.

Say what you want about Anerson but he provides instant energy and doesn't mind tight spaces.

Nani is simply too good to not play.

We simply thought that the lineup that beat Chelsea could beat Barca and were completely wrong.
 
Im a little obsessed.

Plus I can't take all of the transfer banter.

I like talking about the footy that happens on the field.
 
marcus agrippa said:
I admire his attitude.

This is a game that I can't quite seem to shake either.

Probably the fact that it was the last game of the season doesn't help either.
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It was a shit way to end an incredible season really.

VDS playing brilliantly in his last year.

The emergence of the Twins.

Valencia's return.

Nani, Berbatov and Hernendez keeping us going without Rooney.

Rooney's return to form and return to his best position.

The emergence of the twins as regular first teamers.

Park being amazing in virtually every big game.

Great year
 
I watched again the game, when Nani came on, Abidal had big troubles.

Ratings

Valdes 7
Daniel Alves 8
Mascherano 8
Pique 6
Abidal 6
Busquets 6
Xavi 8
Iniesta 8
Messi 8
Villa 7.5
Pedro 7.5
---
Vds 5
Fabio 5
Rio 5
Vidic 6
Evra 5
Carrick 5
Giggs 4.5
Valencia 4
Park 3
Rooney 6.5
Chicarito 4

Nani 6.5
Scholes -
 
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