Yeah bloody GERRONWIVVIT!
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I think all the lies will be exposed gradually by the people themselves - we're only just over week into it and with Covid actually masking some of the problems that would have been there had traffic /trade/tourism been at pre-Covid levels.
People will gradually realise, some quicker than others, that they've been completely hoodwinked.
People believed what they wanted to hear, as reality gradually hits them they will resent it, even the ardent believers.
oh Jesus I feel for you for sure! I’m in insurance so we are relatively unscathed but it has doubled our workflow and caused a 2.75% extra charge on processing all EEA premium so that’s great
what’s the most infuriating is the whole “project fear” bullshit, this wasn’t a surprise but so many people didn’t want to hear it
I voted remain, I stand by my decision. Just to preface my question.
Obviously there are going to be issues in the shorter term, is it possible though that stuff will get ironed out and some of the problems will disappear?
Obviously there are going to be issues in the shorter term, is it possible though that stuff will get ironed out and some of the problems will disappear?
It will get 'ironed out' over time by businesses changing supply chains, relocating and systemic changes to the economy. If that counts as ironing out...
Companies will get used to dealing with the extra bureaucracy, those who have experience of trading with companies outside the EU should have more knowledge of what to do.
Nevertheless the bureaucracy will always be there because the UK left the EU Custom's Union.
It will never be close to how easy things were before the UK left the EU.
People with opinions like yours are exactly why this has been a terrible idea.
Can't you survive off the smell of false sovereignty in the morning?
What are the problems that you have in mind? Some problems can't be ironed out outside of a deep custom agreement.
Isn't that what they call an 'Epiphany'? ... thought it was due to happen on 6th Jan?... Delays already through Brexit!
Yeah the 'deal' hasn't made it any easier to physically move goods back and forth between the UK and Europe. You still need exactly the same amount of paperwork and the customs entries / clearances as we would have under no-deal.oh Jesus I feel for you for sure! I’m in insurance so we are relatively unscathed but it has doubled our workflow and caused a 2.75% extra charge on processing all EEA premium so that’s great
what’s the most infuriating is the whole “project fear” bullshit, this wasn’t a surprise but so many people didn’t want to hear it
The 'deal' just means there is no vat/duty calculated, but the sheer amount of extra work is still required for customs. Absolute nightmare.
Dover - Calais is struggling and this is currently nowhere near the amount of trucks they will see in a few weeks time as the vast majority of businesses planned to avoid this first week for moving goods back and forth to Europe. In a week or so it will be carnage and hauliers on the continent that we rely upon are already looking to avoid travelling the UK, which means EVERYBODY will pay more for transport as we are seeing now with M&S struggling to manage the costs to move goods to their sites in France.
Basically any business that trades with the EU is considerably worse off because of Brexit. Which was painfully feckin obvious at the beginning.
It will be a long drawn out epiphany.
Trade is physically MUCH more difficult from a logistics standpoint, and that won't change because there are standard requirements customs now have for us as a non-EU country.
It will settle into some form of normality but not without a lot of businesses closing and margins being squeezed more and more, people don't realise the sheer impact the cost of transportation has on a business/manufacturer. Not to mention businesses on the continent will find it much easier to purchase from other EU-based countries and avoid any customs formalities and the paperwork requirements that go along with it.
What do you think will happen to your local shop when it costs 30-40% more to bring goods into the UK? The prices will go up, smaller businesses will struggle compared to the 'big boys' who import in bulk for cheaper, it all has a direct knock on effect.
They will require customs brokers to handle the customs requirements or employ extra to handle the requirements, all extra costs with zero benefit.
The transport sector have warned about this from the start, Boris and co have ignored it and we will see the impact.
oh Jesus I feel for you for sure! I’m in insurance so we are relatively unscathed but it has doubled our workflow and caused a 2.75% extra charge on processing all EEA premium so that’s great
what’s the most infuriating is the whole “project fear” bullshit, this wasn’t a surprise but so many people didn’t want to hear it
I work for a company which provides an IT system which manufacturers use. The amount of work for our development teams has been crazy, getting the documentation so that our customers can continue trading and changing the VAT rules in the system to make sure it applies the new rules correctly. It's all last minute as well with HMRC still providing guidance now.
Some of our customers are having nightmares getting their stock in on time so they can actually keep producing and a couple have had to limit production for this week.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...orry-drivers-calais-effects-brexit-eurotunnel
On the other side of the channel, the UK has delayed the imposition of Brexit checks for six months: the lorry parks are not ready, nor is business, as the Brexit deal was only sealed on Christmas Eve.
This is one of the most infuriating comments.
The referendum to leave the EU was in June 2016 - unless leaving the Customs Union was going to be reversed then they had four and a half years to be ready and a minimum of eleven months to be ready as it was certain the UK were leaving the Customs Union when the WA was signed. Christmas Eve and the trade deal has nothing at all to do with it.
On the other side of the channel, the UK has delayed the imposition of Brexit checks for six months: the lorry parks are not ready, nor is business, as the Brexit deal was only sealed on Christmas Eve.
This is one of the most infuriating comments.
The referendum to leave the EU was in June 2016 - unless leaving the Customs Union was going to be reversed then they had four and a half years to be ready and a minimum of eleven months to be ready as it was certain the UK were leaving the Customs Union when the WA was signed. Christmas Eve and the trade deal has nothing at all to do with it.
So John Lewis, Fortnum & Masons and Asos have all scrapped international deliveries, possibly only temporarily in the latter two's case, but either way, it's all indicative of overseas trade facing much higher hurdles to profitability.
Thanks for that. I'm not in any way knowledgeable about the customs process, I suspected it would result in haulage costs, but I suppose I was wondering about the paperwork and the delays, if those could be done more effectively over time to reduce some of the burden. Alas it would appear only minimal gains could be made in that area.
Yes I think with time people will know what is required and will be used to the paperwork and customs element however it still doesn't change the fact that the EU based businesses will find it easier to avoid these additional requirements by dealing with companies on the continent.
I can only see the negatives, nothing about Brexit improves our ability to trade in my opinion, we've just made it a hell of a lot harder for ourselves.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...y-brexit-red-tape-as-m-and-s-warns-of-tariffsFrom an Irish person's perspective, this sums up my biggest grievances pretty well
Well now I'm really mad.
Contact the German manufacturer direct and cut out the middle man - no tariffs, no duties, no hassle.
If you look at the areas that voted heavily for Brexit most of the shops, especially on the high streets, were closing down and disappearing back then, although we were still in the EU; some of them were/are still, becoming like ghost towns.
It is one of my pet theories, of why few of the remainer warnings were heeded in these areas.
The first part is funny -
Second part of that Tweet is hilarious.
"But he said that if the government does everything it can, working with businesses, “then we can make sure that we do get to a new normal where trade flows more freely than ever before.”
Is someone going to ask him how the Customs checks and bureaucracy will stop. Doubt it.
Compulsive liar syndrome.
This is true to some extent. Many of these people thought I might as well give Westminster a bloody nose, not like life can get any worse. Quite a sheltered view unfortunately.
Just about one of the very few benefits I can see of Brexit is that (hopefully) the EU can no longer act as the bogeyman, the pancea for all our ills in this country. The people can't blame it, the media can't blame it and the Tories/UKIP can't blame it. They're going to actually have to answer for what they do.
Though I'm probably being naive and the EU bogeyman will continue regardless.
@ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg apologies for a slightly snappy reply this morning. Things at work not helping as you can imagine. I actually fundamentally agree with what you said wrt that for now we just have to make the best of the situation and try to shape the ongoing future relationship with the EU in a positive way.
But I stand by what I said in terms of the bitterness I personally will carry for what's happened. It will just have to be something I work on I guess.
I couldn't disagree more. We voted to leave the EU(not me personally) the EU didn't vote to leave us. They would have let us leave in name only if we had been willing to do so.
We wanted this. We pushed for this to be a hard line exit. Now that we see how fecked up it is we can't lay any of the blame on the EU who never wanted us to leave and was willing to do a soft Brexit right up until the final agreement for the mess we have made.
@africanspur no problem. I appreciate there a lot of emotions and stress involves for a lot of people and a lot of businesses at the moment.
there was always going be be friction in terms of ability to trade, no matter What the agreement and when it happened. Clearly this and Covid at the same time doesn’t help. Hopefully it’s teething issues, that will be largely resolved in the next few months.
businesses have had close to zero time to implement any changes to processes, and that’s a fault of the timeframes and negotiation teams. Unfortunately these types of negotiations always seem to be at the last minute.
there was always going be be friction in terms of ability to trade, no matter What the agreement and when it happened. Clearly this and Covid at the same time doesn’t help. Hopefully it’s teething issues, that will be largely resolved in the next few months.
businesses have had close to zero time to implement any changes to processes, and that’s a fault of the timeframes and negotiation teams. Unfortunately these types of negotiations always seem to be at the last minute.
You still have not understood a thing.
The frictions are a byproduct of not being in the EUCU, the point of the EUCU was to get rid of such frictions.
I did clarify this. I’m not blaming anyone, in fact I’m advocating that we move on from this, as there’s really no point in debating the rights and wrongs of a decision made 4.5 years ago. and I wasn’t talking about the decision to leave, but the negotiating teams - and I stand by the fact that this current mess is due both sides taking it to the wire. hopefully it’s just teething issues.
I wasn’t making any comment on our future relationship.
you have forms not completing paperwork, or the wrong paperwork etc. That will improve.
Not if you live in these areas its what you see every time you visit the high street/town centre. Telling people their views are parochial may be correct but it doesn't endear them to your perspective, as Gordon Brown found out in Rochdale. Lot of mistakes were made by Remainers as well as lies and half truths from Brexiteers, which contributed to the vote going the way it did.
I have said on a number of occasions on this medium that I feel that Theresa May's inability to get the WA vote through parliament should have been ceased upon as a life line to 'correct' views on Brexit, by withdrawing A50, giving breathing space and having a rethink; but both sides 'hunkered down' stuck to their stories and the rest is history.
I'm sure he's got me on ignore, maybe you as well , he's not listening.
Edit: lucky you
The Remain campaign didn't lie enough. Although if you asked me to name any Remain campaigners I would struggle.
The point is these frictions were not unexpected. They were guaranteed to come into play when we decided to leave the customs union. That isn't about poor implementation, it's a direct consequence of the withdrawal. Pointing that out isn't failing to move on, it's reiterating a point that was made from the beginning: this is going to happen, it's going to create problems, and the people that support Brexit are sticking their fingers in their ears and pretending it won't happen. It is not about blame, it is about accountability. People need to fully understand what they voted for and why these are the consequences. It would have been better if that happened earlier but it still needs to happen now. Choosing not to see the problems and just hoping they will disappear on their own creates more problems.
fecking hell. I’m fed up of political discourse in the country and the world being
group a: please don’t do something incredibly stupid
Group b: we are doing it and it’s not stupid.
*something stupid happens*
Group b: we need to move on and make the best of this, please group a stop causing friction. There’s absolutely nothing we could have done.
group a: please don’t do something incredibly stupid
Group b: we are doing it and it’s not stupid.
*something stupid happens*
Group b: we need to move on and make the best of this, please group a stop causing friction. There’s absolutely nothing we could have done.
I'm not following your point. The friction is based on the added bureaucracy, the added costs linked to that bureaucracy and the fact that certain goods will now be checked when they cross borders. Those frictions are going nowhere outside of a custom agreement and that applies to everyone not just the UK, the UK is now a third country.
My point is that they voted this way partly thinking their lives can't possibly get any worse. Their lives can very demonstrably get worse. Not quite in the remainer fantasy where the UK crashes and burns. But little things. Their weekly food shop becomes more expensive. Their time in between jobs becomes longer. Their benefits no longer covers as much as it used to. Their one holiday they went on every year/ few years now becomes much more expensive/ impossible. More shops will close on their high street.
I agree with your second paragraph in a way and I remember wondering and saying during those votes whether remainers would, in failing to support a lighter deal, contribute to leading us down the road to a much harsher deal.
The 'other side' were never ever going to agree to withdrawing A50 or to have a rethink. For so many of their most fervent proponents, even the mention of a 2nd referendum was akin to treason and they and the media had whipped the population up into believing their rhetoric. Some of these people had dedicated their entire political lives to this moment, they weren't going to give it up easily.
By that point, it was all about 'get brexit done', not any kind of nuanced discussion on our future relationship with our biggest trading partners and a group of countries that should include amongst them our very closest friends.