He wanted to throw Greece out in order to deter any other Greece-like scenario.
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He wanted to throw Greece out in order to deter any other Greece-like scenario.
Because you fantasize about pushing a man crippled in an assassination attempt down a flight of stairs in a wheelchair.
'Brexit underclass' absolutely smacks of elitism, and the part about your perceived 'knowing better' is exactly the kind of conceit I'm talking about. If you genuinely believe that Brexit is based on xenophobia then you have failed to grasp that some very liberal thinkers were traditionally amongst those that oppose massive, centralised rule from overseas. I'm socially liberal myself, and can't for the life of me understand why the new left is so in love with a faceless right-wing, globalist beast such as the European Union. It's not a question of disliking one's neighbour.
Ever heard of MP Dennis Skinner? Y'know, the grey haired chap with the stick who called Cameron 'dodgy Dave' to his face. One of the old guard of the Labour working class left, he voted leave, as would many of the socialist Labour members of old.
I genuinely believe even Corbyn would have campaigned for leave if his parliamentary party wasn't filled with champagne yuppies.
So whilst Farage's campaign may well have dallied on the side of distrust and xenophobia, such a mindset is not universal amongst many decent and good people who despise the EU for honourable reasons. We are not all the 'underclass' you'd love to think we are.
Yep. Much like Mr. Schäuble, he hasn't got a leg to stand on here.
The general election was not a referendum to see if we wanted an EU referendum.
Jesus wept, the state of this thread.
And we comeback to the question that hasn't been answered once, which centralised rule from overseas do you have in mind?
I struggled to square his citing of child refugees as a reason, because he was perfectly happy to remain an MP whilst Cameron enacted a worse policy than Theresa May. Had he raised concerns over the Government's decision to resume the training of allegedly moderate rebels (a programme which revolted once in the field), there might at least have been some consistency to the complaint.
Even if his hope was for a simple replica of the Norway-model, i would still argue that the best approach is for the Government to adopt a strong negotiating strategy, wherein a hard Brexit is also acceptable to us. Do you suppose that when Mr Phillips bought his first property, that he informed all of the other prospective buyers to his financial circumstances? Or more deluded still, made a low offer, assuming the owner would actually sell at a higher price out of generosity?
Additionally, the main purpose of most allusions to Norway and Switzerland has been the suggestion of a British-model, not a blind copy.
As it stands we have a grouping of states totalling 6% of the world's population, telling us that we must accept a situation where they are responsible for nearly 50% of net immigration. It is not a racist policy for the UK to expect a better deal than that.
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Try about 40% of our laws - the exact number varies. Key areas being agriculture, fisheries and trade. The EU's widespread control of lawmaking is indisputable.
You realise that you made these laws not the EU, you have the possibility to vote against them every single time but your politicians, the ones telling you that they are victims of the EU(victims of their own decisions) like these laws.
Yikes, when did I write that post?
Which is why the establishment is so distraught that we're leaving. I prefer the idea of simply voting for a politician whose policies I like, rather than one who will decide which EU legislation we adopt.
Clearly they did. HTH
You knew what you were going to get. In out ref. I dont see how you didnt know that
So you(the UK) didn't vote for Cameron?
I don't understand what difference this makes?
where did you find this number and what do you think they mean with "laws" in this context?
The two people you mentioned are the same, in that case it was Cameron.
Where have I mentioned the 'underclass' really? When I write about people 'knowing better' I am referring to economists, politicians whose been working in Brussels for decades (and that mean actually working and investing time/effort to make the project work not those who simply turned out there for the paycheck and people like myself who bother learning about the EU, its weaknesses, its strengths and how it works. Most of these people were against Brexit.
Now if you expect these people to take those who think that its possible to conduct a jumbo deal with Turkey despite knowing that its not possible (Turkey is in the custom union) or to believe that its possible to conduct trade deals with individual EU countries despite that's also not possible, seriously, then I am sorry but that's not possible. Time and time again the Brexit experts had been saying these sort of porkies which clearly spanks of ignorance of the world around them. They can't expect us to take them or those who voted for this madness seriously
There are undoubtedly arguments against the EU, particularly as large political organisations are inherently less democratic. I share many of those opinions and probably wouldn't have voted in, but the inevitable consequences of leaving meant I voted remain.
However, the election was not remotely fought on such principles. It was fought on immigration and some vague sense of sovereignty. Given the behaviour of the mainstream media, with their overt bigotry, and the political leaders of the leave campaign saying shit such as "we're sick of experts" and blatantly lying, it is understandable if some remainers (and absolutely not all) get a bit superior.
I think people also struggle to understand why the most vulnerable in society largely voted leave in non urban areas, given that they will suffer most in the post Brexit Tory stranglehold as benefits are slashed and the costs of the economy crash are passed on to them. This results in the underclass category term which I don't like either.
Reality is that educated and principled people leave too. In large numbers. I question their motives for doing so and don't believe it's because they're like Dennis Skinner in general.
You actually want to throw a disabled person down the stairs and then you've got the cheek to complain about the so called hatred the remainers are showing against Brexiteers. I wonder how you can take yourself seriously. Same thing can be said about the mods in this forum for letting this horrible post pass. FFS some of us got a ban for passing jokes about Pogba's mum.
He probably did propose that the Eurozone does do that at some point in the past 7 years. Given the facts surrounding Greece's membership of the eurozone that can hardly count as disgusting though, can it?
(He absolutely never implied that he had the power to do it though, nor did he try to force it to happen... I have many grievances towards Schäuble myself and would love to see him retire soon, so i'm done defending him now. He absolutely never publicly said anything nearly as nasty as " I'd like to push Wolfgang Schäuble down the stairs in his wheelchair." though, and justifying that statement by saying he said something "disgusting" is slightly amusing. )
I can't say what others will do but I certainly won't vote Tories next time round. TBF I ended up voting labour during last elections either and that despite being pro business, staunchly anti union and pretty conservative myself. The reason being that I thought that Brexit was stupid and them giving a referendum on it just for them to win another election as disgusting.
When I live in a country, I wish for it the best and I try to vote accordingly.
Not that my vote will matter. I live in a region where the Tories basically rule so my vote is not even worth the very paper its printed on. Thank god the UK has left the EU to 'get control'
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He has been accused of doing exactly that by the US but I don't know more about it.
By the US government? (I genuinely didn't know about that, any links?)
Whoops, that should have been Bury.
I was going to say something about the disconnect between generations but the post has vanished...
I thought you were against negativity?
We don't have politicians deciding policy. We've now got Nissan
From what I understand it comes from this, but Schauble isn't specifically mentioned.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...eaders-tried-to-commit-financial-suicide.html
If you are going to have a free market you are going to have a lot of laws to make sure products meet the same standards across those nations. Now we'll have 2 sets of the law (ours and theirs) which just adds to the costs of business
I knew that was one of a plethora of shit policy promises, yes. I am not, as you know, suggesting I was unaware that the Tories lead on a referendum to combat UKIP and placate a wing of their own party. I am stating it is not the only thing voted on in a GE.
One of my posts has disappeared too. I guess the Caf is giving up on this thread. It is probably more sensible than us.
Yes, my use of the word fantasize is the laughable bit.
Fantasize
Our own pro-EU politicians. for the most part.
There should be a mandated break from the thread every few days. Once people in here build up a head of steam, words can all too easily go too far.
It's just as well that the CE Isn't the name of a pub with a debating society.
Cons+UKIP were almost 50%, and could be pushed over the edge with smaller right-wing parties (which I'm assuming were Euroscpetics)
Interesting read, thanks for that! Definitely gives an insight into the american perception of the crisis, although things like "Germany, the German public, were not going to support a bigger financial firewall, more money for Europe, if Berlusconi was presiding over that country." paint a very simplistic understanding of the politics behind european currency policy and limit the value of his assertions (Geithner, forget about Evans-Pritchard).
(Germany, the German public, was not going to support more money for Europe no matter whoever was presiding over Italy. They could have announced Merkel as the new Cesar and the German public still wouldn't want to... The big fear in Germany is that the EU becomes what they call a "Transferunion", i.e a constant stream of cash from one country's coffers to another's. I don't doubt they tried to apply pressure on Berlusconi, but Geithner must have taken a joke for reality there.)