Bundesliga 13/14

Sphaero said:
Agree on the second part, dissagree on the first one.

Klopp had never such a strong squad under him like this season. We never had such a good 3rd CB like Sokratis or FB back up like Großkreutz (after his conversion) or such an efficient fourth offensive midfielder like Aubameyang or two high level CM (Gündogan + Sahin) at the same time.

Dortmund´s problem is not the quality of the first team or even the bench. The simple truth is that we don´t have the financial means to compensate such an amount of injuries: Gündogan (whole season), Subotic, Kuba and now probably Bender (more than a half), Piszczek (five months), Hummels (four months), Schmelzer and Kehl (three months). These are just the ones, who were/are out for longer periods of time. Besides a handful of players everyone was injured at one point in this season. Transfer this amount of injuries to any former Dortmund team and we never win a single title or reach the CL final.

This is not exclusive for us, though. Any team with an annual wage bill between 80 and 120 Mil. € could not handle that. The only clubs, who are able to do so are clubs with 200+ Mil. € wages like Bayern Munich.

People try to find the reasons in Dortmund´s problem in our system and our lack of creativity and "plan B" vs. deep standing opponents, yet we have the exact same amount of points as last year with Gündogan and Götze. We actually have a pretty good record against lower table teams this season and create nearly as much chances as Bayern Munich (and way more than the rest of the league), but lost a lot of our fixtures vs. direct competition because of our unstable defense.

The team has also a problem with their motivation in games around CL ties, which is to a point understandable. The title is long gone, so they concentrate on the cup competitions. The problem is, that this year the fight for the CL places is more fierce, which is something they need to realize at some point. Arrogant perfomances just like yesterday, when the whole team had their minds already in Russia, are not acceptable. We had one short period of urgency in the game after the 0:2 and created three big chances in 10 minutes. This just shows that they could have easily won that game with or without injuries, if they would have put the necessary effort in it.
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All good points really but I still feel that neither Kagawa at his best nor Götze have been adequately replaced by Mikhi and Aubameyang. Both aren't bad players at all but they just don't seem to have the quality of the former two players or haven't really shown it by now. Reus also seems to have taken a dip in form lately which isn't helping but yes of course the injuries in defense are your main problems by far.

Next season you will have to replace Lewandowski as well so instead of adding much in terms of squad depth you will be once again forced to look for a player that might be able to bring you at least half of what the one did that just leave.

Naturally squad depth is also a problem for a team like Dortmund and pretty much every other German team in the CL or the EL expect Bayern. Freiburg and Frankfurt also struggled a lot this season because their squads just aren't big enough to handle the extra games and the away games with sometimes fairly long traveling times.

I think for Dortmund to really compete again with Bayern it will take some time. It will take a consistent finish in the top 3 in the Bundesliga as well as good performances on the international stage for a fairly long period until you can catch up to Bayern financially if that is even possible considering that they don't really stand still in terms of growth either.

I just hope for the sake of the Bundesliga that at least two teams can close the gap towards Bayern a bit more so that there is at least something remotely resembling a challenge in the league again.
 
do.ob said:
I don't think you can compare Dortmund to Arsenal, because Klopp's style makes them far less reliant on individual players. They lost their two best midfielders from last season, one of them even without any kind of replacement, but they still won their CL group. This might sound weird but I think the better the opposition are the easier it gets for Dortmund to perform and to some extend the less reliant they are on individual class.
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I think that's mainly a motivational point at this time. Dortmund's players always seem to be at their best when they are the underdogs and play against teams that give them some space.

During their two title winning seasons Dortmund always seemed to be motivated like hell against any opponent but since they have gone so far in the CL games like those against Hamburg seem to have increased, games where the team doesn't really seem focused on the task in front of them but the bigger game during the week instead.
 
NoLogo said:
I think that's mainly a motivational point at this time. Dortmund's players always seem to be at their best when they are the underdogs and play against teams that give them some space.

During their two title winning seasons Dortmund always seemed to be motivated like hell against any opponent but since they have gone so far in the CL games like those against Hamburg seem to have increased, games where the team doesn't really seem focused on the task in front of them but the bigger game during the week instead.
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I think that's the main reason. Against top teams they don't have to break down defences all the time and Aubameyang, Mkhitaryan and Reus can put their pace to maximum use and they can abuse their strong transitions.
 
Sphaero said:
Dortmund´s problem is not the quality of the first team or even the bench. The simple truth is that we don´t have the financial means to compensate such an amount of injuries: Gündogan (whole season), Subotic, Kuba and now probably Bender (more than a half), Piszczek (five months), Hummels (four months), Schmelzer and Kehl (three months). These are just the ones, who were/are out for longer periods of time. Besides a handful of players everyone was injured at one point in this season. Transfer this amount of injuries to any former Dortmund team and we never win a single title or reach the CL final.
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Well there would have been some backup available if Bittencourt or Leitner hadn't been transferred or loaned out, who would have been able to play decent at least in the Bundesliga. Playing them would have given some of the others some well deserved rest and who knows if BVBs injury list would have been as long as it is now. The number of games they would have to play this season wasn't exactly a surprise. Klopps coaching style, which motivates players to go beyond their limit is blessing and curse at the same time.
 
strongwalker said:
Well there would have been some backup available if Bittencourt or Leitner hadn't been transferred or loaned out, who would have been able to play decent at least in the Bundesliga. Playing them would have given some of the others some well deserved rest and who knows if BVBs injury list would have been as long as it is now. The number of games they would have to play this season wasn't exactly a surprise. Klopps coaching style, which motivates players to go beyond their limit is blessing and curse at the same time.
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Sorry, but that sounds like captain hindsight. Both Bittencourt and Leitner desperately need game time and even as things stand Hofmann isn't getting that much. I don't think Klopp's coaching style has anything to do with players twisting their knees, colds, getting bruised ankles or having season long back injuries before the season even begins.
 
do.ob said:
Sorry, but that sounds like captain hindsight. Both Bittencourt and Leitner desperately need game time and even as things stand Hofmann isn't getting that much. I don't think Klopp's coaching style has anything to do with players twisting their knees, colds, getting bruised ankles or having season long back injuries before the season even begins.
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Agreed with all of this. Hoffman has 329min in the Bundesliga so far. You can't keep Bittencourt and Leitner in the squad just in case, they need game time to develop. Dortmunds just had an unlucky season, surprised he hasn't given the kids more of a chance though. Durms the only one who's really been given a fair chance this season.
 
Do people think Firmino will leave this season? He seems to be having a brilliant season, 11 goals and 8 assists for Hoffenheim is a fantastic return from a number 10.
 
strongwalker said:
Well there would have been some backup available if Bittencourt or Leitner hadn't been transferred or loaned out, who would have been able to play decent at least in the Bundesliga.
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Both players were not bought as simple squad options like the 5th CM or 6th or even 7th offensive midfielder. Both came to Dortmund to one day become starters because of their potential. For them to develop they need quality game time, though, which they get at their current clubs. They can not mature by rotating between the reserve team, the stands and the bench and hope for a very unlikely injury crisis for them to get game time.

Playing them would have given some of the others some well deserved rest and who knows if BVBs injury list would have been as long as it is now. The number of games they would have to play this season wasn't exactly a surprise. Klopps coaching style, which motivates players to go beyond their limit is blessing and curse at the same time.
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This is brought up times and times again (this is not only directed to you) and each time my response is the same: To name me the injuries of the Dortmund players, which can be the result of being overplayed or Klopp´s system. In the huge amount of injuries in this season only two of them can be that kind: Schmelzer muscular problems and now Bender´s pubic bone problems. If I then take a look at their game time before their injuries, the possibility of them being on the expense of Klopp´s way to play is basically nonexistant.

It is an argument, which is easily made by looking at the number of injuries and the play style, but completely ignores the nature of said injuries. This makes the argument one with no leg to stand on.
 
A couple of questions for Dortmund fans if you may. How much is your club likely to spend in the summer with the departure of Lewandowski and probably Gundogan ? And who are the most likely incoming transfers ? Thanks. Love how Klopp manages to invariably unearth some diamonds for cheap.
 
No one really knows how much money Dortmund have in the bank. Watzke said a couple of days ago that people should forget all the big names that they are linked with and added that no one knew Lewandowski when he came to Dortmund.

Hertha's Ramos seems very likely at this point, however they supposedly want to sign a second striker aswell, so no idea if Ramos will be coming for the first or second striker squad position.
They are also linked a lot with Hoffenheim's Volland and Freiburg's Ginter, both young players who would fit Dortmund's transfer history. Iirc Hoffenheim's dof said that they do not plan to sell Volland this summer though. Ginter on the other hand confirmed that Dortmund contacted him.
 
The info is much appreciated. Yes, I've always had the impression that they don't usually spend big in the market - Reus and Mkhitaryan aside I suppose. Yet they seem to get stronger year on year. After they lost Barrios I thought they might suffer but Lewandoeski just picked up where he left. But I don't really get the Ginter speculation - isn't he supposed to be the best young German defender. Dortmund already have Hummels, Subotic, Sokratis and Günter. Where will Ginter fit in ?

Also I don't know Dortmund's take on Weidenfeller but he's been dodgy a couple of times that I've seen him. I think Yann Sommer would be perfect for them.
 
Weidenfeller is usually quite solid but lacks in 'modern' goalkeeper traits. If Ginter comes then probably as a replacement for Kehl, unless they sell one of their CBs, which does not seem likely atm.
 
do.ob said:
Weidenfeller is usually quite solid but lacks in 'modern' goalkeeper traits. If Ginter comes then probably as a replacement for Kehl, unless they sell one of their CBs, which does not seem likely atm.
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Yeah Ginter can play as CB and DM so he would be a great cover for Bender as well. I think one also has to consider that either Hummels or Subotic won't be at Dortmund forever and considering that quite a lot of Europes top clubs are hunting Ginter Dortmund might have to make a their move for him this summer.
 
Maybe give next year's title to Bayern already, Dortmund have been as unlucky as a team could ever been but even with all their players fit I doubt they would have been able to really change them.
 
Julian Brandt coming on after 45mins to replace Sidney Sam for Leverkusen? Was Sam injured? For those that don't know, Julian Brandt is a 17 year old CF, he's played a few games lately for Leverkusen. Mainz so far beating Leverkusen 1-0 away, excellent result so far.

Dortmund beating Nurnberg 1-0, Hummels the scorer. Oddest game seems to involve Braunschweig again, with both 2 goalkeepers scoring an OG.
 
And the 2-0 for Dortmund. Very nice combination by Auba, Mkhitaryan and Lewandowki. The Armenian with an extremely good game so far. Together with the strong Hummels best man on the pitch.
 
The 1:0 of Dortmund was offside. But they made a 2:0 meanwhile.

The Ter Stegen own goal was a real plunder. Barcelona someone... ;)
 
RedSky At Night said:
How Drmic looked in the Dortmund game for Nurnberg? He has an impressive game last weekend.
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Mostly taken out of the game by the good Schmelzer. Nürnberg as a whole not very dangerous in the offense. They had one clear cut chance and were otherwise kept very quite by the strong Dortmund defense. Its amazing how much of a difference Hummels does.
 
3-0 by Mkhi. Game over. Our Youngster Hofmann with a very nice assist. Fast, direct, clever. Dortmund football as its finest :drool:
 
So.... a very convincing win for us, while Leverkusen continues their fall with a loss vs. Mainz. Bayern will most likely destroy Schalke tonight and maybe Wolfsburg loses some points in Hoffenheim tomorrow.

If that happens, things are looking way brighter for us in terms of the direct CL places.
 
Mainz looking great you gotta say. Outside chance of a top 4 finish? That's another clean sheet for Karius too. Stats below:

Games: 12
Lost: 2
Drawn: 3
Won: 7
Clean Sheets: 6
Conceded: 12

That's a great decision by Tuchel to start playing Karius.

In the 11 games before Karius became first choice:

Games: 11
Lost: 6
Drawn: 1
Won: 4
Clean Sheets: 2
Conceded: 23
 
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Well, that game is over.... 1-0 by Alaba with an extremely lucky deflection after a free kick.
 
That awful call at the end of the Monchengladbach game will cost me a £300 if Bayern win both halfs. :lol:
 
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