Forgive me, touching and abuse yes but when did staring become part of it?
Celebrity Allegations, #MeToo etc
- Thread starter Buchan
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Forgive me, touching and abuse yes but when did staring become part of it?
Of course it is, that's what human beings have done since music and alcohol were invented until someone decided to analyse the shit out of it under the precursor that unless they find any form of looking at someone below the neck as exactly the same as rape then they'll be condemned as a sexual prisoner.
There's a difference between sexual assault and this new 'normal' were everyone has to pretend when they were young they kept restraining order-like distances from any member of the opposite sex and never went in for a kiss unless there was something signed in writing and notarised by her parents.
Everybody, unless they're a virgin, has made a move on someone who weren't willing to reciprocate or had a move made on them they weren't expecting and didn't want. That's what humans do. That's what humans have always done. Young people, particularly. Just go to any nightclub where strangers mingle on the dance floor after consumption of alcohol.
I can't remember a single occasion where I've asked for permission to kiss someone or been asked by someone if they could kiss me. I've never heard anyone do that either. That isn't how life works. You meet someone you like, you dance, you drink and you or they move in for a kiss. Chance they/you didn't want to kiss, you might pull away, you might go through with it and then afterwards regret it. It's not assault.
We're allowing the norms of intimacy to be rewritten by people who've clearly never experienced much of it.
Last edited:
Staringand women are saying don't do it anymore so maybe listen to them
If you're staring at someone's breasts to such a degree that other people not only notice but actually try to excuse it by saying it's something you always do, then it probably is part of it. That isn't the m.o. of non-creepy men.
Yeah you're always hearing women in nightclubs asking the DJ to stop playing music for a few seconds so her friend can act as witness to the verbal consent that the guy she's been dancing with for 20 minutes will hopefully gives once she asks if it's okay if she kisses him.
That's definitely how life works.
You're doing great, keep it up
There's gonna be no movies left to watch soon
they're saying don't assume they're okay with creeps like you grabbing their arse because they danced with you for 5 minutes
That's not really what's being discussed for the most part though. Most reasonable people understand that when it comes to stuff like this there's going to be miscommunication etc. But there's a difference between going in for a kiss and respectfully pulling away if someone says they'd rather not, and groping/trying to force yourself on someone.
Sounds like he thought he was some sort of top flirt, but was actually being a creepy old man.
Oh I'm still watching Shawshank Redemption.
I don't think 'most people' do understand that, sadly. I think people are now keen to hold the concept of consent up to a standard that no human in history, including themselves, as ever achieved.
How do they feel about creepy virgins who think they speak for imaginary people on internet forums?
they probably think the creepy virgins won't come up with
which is what the argument against criminalising marital rape was
FFS Morgan too! 
Wonder if anyone will be left by the time all the allegations are done.
Wonder if anyone will be left by the time all the allegations are done.
You're strawmanning here. I think the vast majority of people understand the difference between going in for a kiss and getting rejected and forcefully groping people. As always there'll be extremists on either side but most of the discussion here is about actual assault or harassment.
There's someone in this very thread who's making that argument. I don't think that's strawmanning at all.
There are genuinely people out there who thinks sex is like buying Mars bar or something.
"May we have sex please?"
-Certainly, climb on.
That what worries me. We assume that everyone is a normal person and understands how intimacy and intimate situations occur, but then there's Silva. I fear people like that are shaping the debate when it comes to consent.
maybe we can do better and not make womens lives so shitty that they can't go to a nightclub alone for fear of being gropped constantly and having oscie defend it by quoting time immemorial
Which was exactly the defence used in an argument against civil rights for black people.
...or something.
You don’t just go straight for the goods when you’re dancing with a woman in a club. Start with the hips, work from there, and adjust based on reciprocation. Or we can all make the Fox Trot cool again to avoid these problems altogether.
yes and black people have civil rights now and maybe in the future women and go dancing without encountering people like you
What gives you the right to touch her hips?
They don't want to be touched by creeps like you!
etc.
I'm homosexual. They're safer with me than someone who clearly thinks sex and intimacy in general is something women have done to them.
men*
groping a person because you danced with them for a few minutes isn't intimacy
You realise your tagline says 'enjoys looking at footballers' groins'?
I know you’re being facetious, but hands on hips is essential in so many different types of partner dancing. And hands on hips doesn’t mean grab strongly onto it either. If she doesn’t like that, then she’ll simply move your hands away or stop dancing with you.
great argument
i'm sure they don't and maybe you might want to consider that redcafe taglines are usually overly exaggerated and based on single stupid comments
I don't think I can watch The Usual Suspects anymore and that was my favourite film.
Have we had the 'consent forms' joke yet? That's a good 'un.
So there was a comment?
Are you seeking counselling for your perversion/sex addiction. I'm sorry I don't know the politically correct term. Are there any restrictions on where/with whom you can work? I think we're getting to the bottom of your anger issues and supposed repulsion to sex.
no i've gone on the internet to defend my sexual behaviour to ensure that people don't have a better experience in the future
To be fair if there's a silver lining, the entire film is about Spacey putting on the facade of being a decent person while being pure evil under the surface. So I suppose in that respect it still kind of works, albeit in an even more sinister context.
Of course. Most people understand that. The problem is that when it comes to things like consent there's a really important debate to be had. Especially at uni where young people will often experience the combination of sex and alcohol at the same time and it'd help for young people to feel open and comfortable and discussing what consent is and what it means. My fear is that people who want to claim any kind of intimate contact (hips, elbows) under any setting is somehow 'perverted' makes that task even harder than it needs to be. Hence going back to my point about it's disappointing that these things seem to be driven/sculpted often by the most hysterical voices.
One of the main things that would drive boys to disengage with discussions on consent is accusations, being accused of being 'perverts' or whatever. Making it even more important that discussion takes place in a backdrop where people aren't accusing people of being perverts on the basis that they understand that consent is often implicit and unspoken.