Cop in America doing a bad job, again

ivaldo said:
You've given him more than enough of your time mate. His general opinion and view on police officers is abhorrent. You and the vast majority of your colleagues know you're doing the best you can, that all that matters.
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Which of my views on police officers is abhorrent? The one were I don't assume every police officer is a good person just like I don't assume every other person on this earth is (until proven one way or another)? Or the one where I have empathy with the victims of police corruption and malpractice?

I was actually talking about you and not @Skizzo in the post he quoted and took offence to, and lo and behold here you are. Talking with you on this subject is like chewing glass... and on that note.
 
afrocentricity said:
Which of my views on police officers is abhorrent? The one were I don't assume every police officer is a good person just like I don't assume every other person on this earth is (until proven one way or another)? Or the one where I have empathy with the victims of police corruption and malpractice?

I was actually talking about you and not @Skizzo in the post he quoted and took offence to, and lo and behold here you are. Talking with you on this subject is like chewing glass... and on that note.
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How were you talking to him and not me when he hadn't posted, and you directly addressed things I'd mentioned in the post directly before yours?
 
Skizzo said:
How were you talking to him and not me when he hadn't posted, and you directly addressed things I'd mentioned in the post directly before yours?
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I've read the post again and I can see the wording is suspect but I wrote that because I didn't want to get into a to and fro (with posters that dont like that I question or disagree with you) like last time, but it happened anyway. I guess you're going to believe what you want to.
 
afrocentricity said:
I've read the post again and I can see the wording is suspect but I wrote that because I didn't want to get into a to and fro (with posters that dont like that I question or disagree with you) like last time, but it happened anyway. I guess you're going to believe what you want to.
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If you weren't addressing me, then I apologize for jumping down your throat about it. Although with our previous discussions, and your admittedly suspect wording, I'm sure you can see why I'd think you were.

For what it's worth, I don't take your posts as a personal insult, just as I'm sure you don't take mine as. There's going to be areas we disagree on purely because of the backgrounds we're coming from, and experiences that each of us has had. That being said, I'm sure you can understand my stance that there needs to be somewhat wholesale changes from both sides to get to where we need to be.
 
JustAFan said:
Earlier he said this. Seems he was talking to you and commenting on your posts.
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The post was to @Skizzo the throw away comment was at the people arguing with me last time. I know arguing with them is pointless, and annoying. Never had a major problem going back and forth with both PO's. Or I wouldn't even bother asking them questions, or commenting on their posts.

Believe it or not, this is not something I particularly 'enjoy' doing...
 
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Skizzo said:
If you weren't addressing me, then I apologize for jumping down your throat about it. Although with our previous discussions, and your admittedly suspect wording, I'm sure you can see why I'd think you were.

For what it's worth, I don't take your posts as a personal insult, just as I'm sure you don't take mine as. There's going to be areas we disagree on purely because of the backgrounds we're coming from, and experiences that each of us has had. That being said, I'm sure you can understand my stance that there needs to be somewhat wholesale changes from both sides to get to where we need to be.
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Funny enough that's how I see it too, I think maybe others make more of it.

I understand where you're coming from too, I just think as a whole the police force need to think about changing things (especially training), whether there's changes in gun laws etc. or not.
 
The chicken and the egg thing, maybe. With less guns there ought to be less fear on the cops side.
Would less availability of guns calm some of them down and have them de-escalate situations? Not in every instance of course, as it depends on the person and their training, but we should see a lot less of "Cops in America doing a bad job".
 
Is this thread even arguable....The US police force is a racist institution.

They target minorities particularly black. How many videos do we need to see. It's more than one bad egg. It is systematic

 
How has this not been posted



Starts from 5 minutes 30 pretty much
 
What a small trumped up man.

Clearly can't handle being told no.
 
Thing is, there were other cops there...how did no one step in and stop this asshole?

I dread to think what *some* of these animals did when there were no cameras or recordings...
 
Neutral said:
Thing is, there were other cops there...how did no one step in and stop this asshole?

I dread to think what *some* of these animals did when there were no cameras or recordings...
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Because the cnut outrank them. (or maybe they are just as cnuts as him)

That's not a good excuse though... its like committing genocide because your superior told you to.

You always have the option to say NO and face the consequences, or say YES (or nothing), and face those consequences too.

the whole team needs to be fired, and prosecuted.
 
George Owen said:
Because the cnut outrank them. (or maybe they are just as cnuts as him)

That's not a good excuse though... its like committing genocide because your superior told you to.

You always have the option to say NO and face the consequences, or say YES (or nothing), and face those consequences too.

the whole team needs to be fired, and prosecuted.
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I almost think the cop who's body cam we are watching, is passively recording this deliberately. He's keeping the woman safe by making sure he doesn't do anything crazy, and filimg it as evidence.

Who is the person who says "they dont have PC" (probably cause) too? Was that a cop?
 
rcoobc said:
I almost think the cop who's body cam we are watching, is passively recording this deliberately. He's keeping the woman safe by making sure he doesn't do anything crazy, and filimg it as evidence.

Who is the person who says "they dont have PC" (probably cause) too? Was that a cop?
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yeah you might be right. I though he was a hopsital worker with a camera until the cop send him to the trunk to pick up some stuff... the guy looks like his mind is somewhere else at that point so yeah, hopefully he was just stressed out trying to help the victim the only way he though he could.
 
I can understand why people get bogged down on the events/videos where police officers end up killing people.

But honestly, and i've said this many, many times in this thread - it's the incidents involving police officers that don't always end up with a dead body that has long lasting effects.
Racial profiling, lying on police reports, planting drugs/evidence, wrongful arrest, police brutality, over-exerting their power, rape and most importantly - not calling out the so called 'bad eggs'

These are the things that cause distrust and miscommunication between the police and the communities they serve.

And I understand it's a hard job, of course it is but they signed up for it knowing its a tough job with very few public displays of appreciation. Just like doctors, nurses, firefighters etc.
But just because it's a hard job doesn't mean they should have complete autonomy over civilians without justifiable cause.
 
rcoobc said:
How has this not been posted



Starts from 5 minutes 30 pretty much
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SAw an article on this today. To make matters worse both the cop arresting this nurse and his supervisor were citing a law that has been OFF the books in Utah for almost a decade. She was 100% correct in refusing to comply. Additionally Utah actually has cops who are trained as phlebotomists (sorry if the spelling is wrong) so they can take blood in "emergency situations" In what type of situation would it be necessary for the cop to draw the blood and not wait for hospital staff to do it?

Fecking hell I hate the things the authorities in my country do. Freedom and all that right....:rolleyes:
 
2mufc0 said:
Is it a cultural thing for American police to be routinely doing traffic stops? Surely they are better utilising their time elsewhere?

In the UK i haven't been stopped once and i drive a lot and have been doing so for 12 years now, just can't understand how many traffic incidents crop up there.
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you are lucky i have been stopped loads in the uk
 
vi1lain said:
I can understand why people get bogged down on the events/videos where police officers end up killing people.

But honestly, and i've said this many, many times in this thread - it's the incidents involving police officers that don't always end up with a dead body that has long lasting effects.
Racial profiling, lying on police reports, planting drugs/evidence, wrongful arrest, police brutality, over-exerting their power, rape and most importantly - not calling out the so called 'bad eggs'

These are the things that cause distrust and miscommunication between the police and the communities they serve.

And I understand it's a hard job, of course it is but they signed up for it knowing its a tough job with very few public displays of appreciation. Just like doctors, nurses, firefighters etc.
But just because it's a hard job doesn't mean they should have complete autonomy over civilians without justifiable cause.
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Agreed. Ill repost something i post the other day but no one read because no death guy (maybe).



this is crazy serious.
 
George Owen said:
Agreed. Ill repost something i post the other day but no one read because no death guy (maybe).



this is crazy serious.
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I read about this story, it's absolute madness to me, but unfortunately it's not a surprise - that's the truly heartbreaking thing about it.
 
JustAFan said:
SAw an article on this today. To make matters worse both the cop arresting this nurse and his supervisor were citing a law that has been OFF the books in Utah for almost a decade. She was 100% correct in refusing to comply. Additionally Utah actually has cops who are trained as phlebotomists (sorry if the spelling is wrong) so they can take blood in "emergency situations" In what type of situation would it be necessary for the cop to draw the blood and not wait for hospital staff to do it?

Fecking hell I hate the things the authorities in my country do. Freedom and all that right....:rolleyes:
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just to add to what you've said, the unconscious victim was also from another state so even the non-existent Utah law wouldn't have applied.
 
What I can't wrap my head around is how the cop didn't know the patient is not obligated to give a sample while unconscious - It was a Supreme Court decision last year - How are they supposed to enforce and uphold the laws of the land if they don't know what those laws are? No excuse. That nurse should sue for millions.

manc exile said:
you are lucky i have been stopped loads in the uk
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I'm white American and I've been pulled over twice in 10 years - once because I made an improper turn and another because the officer wanted to let me know my tail lights were out. In both experiences the cops were pleasant with me.

Do I think too many people are pulled over in the USA? No. I prefer to have police patrolling the roadways and I tend to think that enforcement of infractions is beneficial to society. If someone's weaving in and out of lanes, or speeding or blasting incredibly loud music from the vehicle, then sure, let the police go and figure out what's going on. But that's entirely different from what's happening with plethora of "bad eggs" in law enforcement that pop up on the evening news every week. Unfortunately, just as there are some racists in American society, there are some racists in law enforcement. It's simple statistics. A-holes are found in all walks of life. Can this ever be solved? Probably not. As long the alt-right and xenophobic, racist behavior are active in families and communities then the sentiment will never disappear. It starts from the ground up and the way we educate our children.
 
Recent news on the nurse arrest - the DA isn't too happy it seems.

The Latest: Prosecutor wants criminal probe of nurse arrest
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...a169beb0953_story.html?utm_term=.4cf145899afe

A Utah prosecutor says he’s asked for a criminal investigation into a police officer who dragged a nurse from a hospital and arrested her for refusing to allow blood to be drawn from an unconscious patient.

Salt Lake County District Attorney Sim Gill said Friday that he was concerned when he saw police body-camera footage of the officer arresting nurse Alex Wubbels in July.
 
Reading the comments (be warned) in the above link and stumbled along this post.

--“Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529.--
 
Thought my thread had a better title. American cops suck. Full of neo nazi cnuts looking to kill minorities.

EDIT: They don't suck, they're scum. Pure fecking scum.
 
MrMarcello said:
Reading the comments (be warned) in the above link and stumbled along this post.

--“Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529.--
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That ruling has been widely criticized among law scholars and often overridden by certain local and state statutes. Let's just say that a law enforcement officer shouldn't be aggressively arresting anyone for a misdemeanor, and if so, any escalation would be in my opinion the fault of the police, as they should only use force when there is no other option.
 
MrMarcello said:
Recent news on the nurse arrest - the DA isn't too happy it seems.

The Latest: Prosecutor wants criminal probe of nurse arrest
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...a169beb0953_story.html?utm_term=.4cf145899afe

A Utah prosecutor says he’s asked for a criminal investigation into a police officer who dragged a nurse from a hospital and arrested her for refusing to allow blood to be drawn from an unconscious patient.

Salt Lake County District Attorney Sim Gill said Friday that he was concerned when he saw police body-camera footage of the officer arresting nurse Alex Wubbels in July.
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I hope he gets charged and made an example of. The nurse was 100% in the right. As an investigating officer, yeah it sucks that sometimes there's loopholes or policies that force extra work (like getting a warrant) but they're there for a reason, and he should have been well aware of the process and what he needed.

I've done blood warrants and called judges at 2am and had to drive around getting things signed, and sure, you might end up losing a case because of something role sensitive, but I can almost guarantee that nothing would have been so important that he needed that reaction and course of action.
 
Skizzo said:
I hope he gets charged and made an example of. The nurse was 100% in the right. As an investigating officer, yeah it sucks that sometimes there's loopholes or policies that force extra work (like getting a warrant) but they're there for a reason, and he should have been well aware of the process and what he needed.

I've done blood warrants and called judges at 2am and had to drive around getting things signed, and sure, you might end up losing a case because of something role sensitive, but I can almost guarantee that nothing would have been so important that he needed that reaction and course of action.
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Yeah, I think any sensible cop would have done that. His reaction was excessive force on the nurse. She was being treated like she had just committed a violent crime or something. Just out of curiosity, shouldn't the officer have given her a Miranda warning if she was being arrested for obstruction of justice?
 
Skizzo said:
They're all scum? :eek:
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Obviously that's not true but what is it about US police training that has them wired and on edge all the time? They're not the only armed police force and they're not the only country where criminals regularly have guns, but nowhere else do they seem to go from 0-100 so quickly.

I also don't think it helps from either side that some of them have more gear than the military these days.
 
11101 said:
Obviously that's not true but what is it about US police training that has them wired and on edge all the time? They're not the only armed police force and they're not the only country where criminals regularly have guns, but nowhere else do they seem to go from 0-100 so quickly.

I also don't think it helps from either side that some of them have more gear than the military these days.
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Just my 2c. I think they get it because of the body cam.

If you put the body cam in other countries you'll bound to find more shits like this.
 
11101 said:
Obviously that's not true but what is it about US police training that has them wired and on edge all the time? They're not the only armed police force and they're not the only country where criminals regularly have guns, but nowhere else do they seem to go from 0-100 so quickly.

I also don't think it helps from either side that some of them have more gear than the military these days.
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Wish I had a simple answer. The training mirrors the threats that are out there in the streets. I've traveled to many countries and I agree that police in the US are more wired and on edge than places in Europe and Asia. Most of those countries don't have as strong of a criminal element with the wide access and availability of guns. I just don't get the feeling that cops are targets as much as they are here in the US. On the other hand in places like Brazil and Mexico cops seem more on edge and almost all carry their guns off-duty, and for good reason. The whole gun debate in America is another topic, but IMO goes hand in hand with the current climate of crime and policing. For a 1st world country we really do have a culture of violence here that I can't really explain.

Re the bolded part, It's usually during planned major protests/demonstrations where police are geared up like the military. When we are notified of a demonstration in our area, we're told to "gear up", which at my Dept really only means getting a helmet and baton. Every dept has the handful of officers who look like Mr Gadget with their 2 backup guns, tactical vests, tactical holsters, extended magazines, multiple flashlights, and we all make fun of them for looking so ridiculous. But again, even equipment and gear police departments utilize is in response to certain events. You can read or watch a youtube video of the 1997 North Hollywood Shootout where 2 men armed with "more gear than the military" including bulletproof vests etc went on a shooting spree against LAPD, who were only armed with their handguns. After that event every patrol car required a shotgun or other long-gun and every officer is trained in using it. Gone are the days a unit would be sitting ducks waiting for SWAT to arrive.

Also mass shootings/attacks like Columbine, Orlando nightclub, Colorado movie theater, etc and the current ISIS-inspired attacks have changed the game. Before Columbine, police were trained to set up a perimeter and hold it until SWAT arrived. They came under heavy criticism for it and rightly so. If there's an active shooter capping off people then we are now trained to go to the threat and stop him/her. I can tell you that I have had heated discussions with my own colleagues on what we would do if there was an active shooter. Not everyone agrees that we should go in and stop the threat, as discomforting as it may sound.
 
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