Cop in America doing a bad job, again

Pogue Mahone said:
Interesting the way you talk about these people. I’ve noticed this a few times. You seem to perceive every violent criminal as subhuman. Do you believe in the possibility of redemption? Is there any point in the judiciary and penal system? Or should every violent criminal be executed on the spot?

If the attitude you seem to be revealing with your choice of words is common in the US police force, then that would certainly help explain why this thread is so long.
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It's only for the select incidents/suspects posted here that are extreme cases. But yea, when you work dealing with violent criminals and their victims (including personal family and friends) for a while you start to have a more cold view of them.
I'm sorry if i offended you or anyone else, but I'm just not as forgiving and optimistic when it comes to violent behavior, especially when it comes to killing someone. And again the times I've used the label scumbags or wastes of oxygen are for the more extreme cases, which they absolutely were imo.
 
choiboyx012 said:
It's only for the select incidents/suspects posted here that are extreme cases. But yea, when you work dealing with violent criminals and their victims (including personal family and friends) for a while you start to have a more cold view of them.
I'm sorry if i offended you or anyone else, but I'm just not as forgiving and optimistic when it comes to violent behavior, especially when it comes to killing someone. And again the times I've used the label scumbags or wastes of oxygen are for the more extreme cases, which they absolutely were imo.
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You haven’t offended me. But your, at best, jaded view of the sort of people you’re likely to end up policing is not ideal. Do you guys ever get counselling, or a chance to reflect on your underlying attitudes and how they might affect your behaviour in a stressful situation? Without that, I don’t see how the cycle will ever be broke.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Interesting the way you talk about these people. I’ve noticed this a few times. You seem to perceive every violent criminal as subhuman. Do you believe in the possibility of redemption? Is there any point in the judiciary and penal system? Or should every violent criminal be executed on the spot?

If the attitude you seem to be revealing with your choice of words is common in the US police force, then that would certainly help explain why this thread is so long.
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Hard to come to any other conclusion Pogue after watching that video. He tried to execute a police officer for pulling him over.
Edit: of course not everyone should be judged as such but in this case the shoe fits.
 
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Pogue Mahone said:
You haven’t offended me. But your, at best, jaded view of the sort of people you’re likely to end up policing is not ideal. Do you guys ever get counselling, or a chance to reflect on your underlying attitudes and how they might affect your behaviour in a stressful situation? Without that, I don’t see how the cycle will ever be broke.
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I haven't been jaded yet. The area and people i patrol are very chill. We're not in a very crime-ridden area. And most of our encounters with criminals go the way they're supposed to for the most part (without any serious violations, excessive or unnecessary force). I've never said criminals should be killed on the spot. I'm just glad that in the few incidents highlighted on this thread, the criminal attempting to kill a person or officers was eventually "put down".
 
The Firestarter said:
She shot him at the door, don't think she entered. And I guess they are trained to ask questions later.
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Ah, the initial reports didn't say she was at the door. So she simply went to the wrong apartment door and it resulted in a man dying - unbelievable.
 
Solution is more guns, or perhaps automated turrets that could've shot the cop before shooting the unarmed tenant.

Whatever the outcome of the trial this shows the officer in question is completely unfit for her job. How is your reaction to seeing someone open the door to shoot him in the chest twice. how about waiting half a second to see his demeanor, or ask him "hey, are you a robber"?. It's mental, completely mental. Imagine being a friend or relative of the guy and hearing this. Men-tal.
 
I have no idea why Dallas PD is protecting this Woman. She was breaking into someone's home, she was off duty. If there was a time to just wash your hands of something it would be this. It has been a few days and her story has changed like 4 times already.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
I have no idea why Dallas PD is protecting this Woman. She was breaking into someone's home, she was off duty. If there was a time to just wash your hands of something it would be this. It has been a few days and her story has changed like 4 times already.
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This is the account of the police chief. The police officer's apartment was actually directly below the one of the man she shot - she went to the wrong floor:
Jean was home alone when Guyger, still in uniform after her shift, entered the apartment, Dallas Police Chief Ulysha Renee Hall said Thursday.
Guyger parked her vehicle on the fourth floor, entered the building and walked toward what she thought was her apartment, according to an arrest warrant affidavit.
The door was slightly ajar as she tried to use her key, which has an electronic chip, to enter. When she was able to open the door, she saw the interior was nearly completely dark, according to the affidavit. She described seeing a large silhouette and, believing there was a burglar in her apartment, drew her firearm.
Her verbal commands to Jean were ignored, the affidavit said, and Guyger fired two shots at Jean, striking him once in the torso.
Guyger then entered the apartment, called 911 and started administering first aid to Jean.
She turned on the lights while on the phone with 911, and when they asked for her address, she realized she was in the wrong apartment.
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https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/10/us/dallas-police-officer-amber-guyger-arrest/index.html
 
choiboyx012 said:

Pretty scary how everything can turn for the worse in milliseconds. Thankfully the partner officer was quick to react, draw and shoot accurately. Another waste of oxygen gone too.
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These videos are really good. Especially love the way things are broken down.
 
Penna said:
This is the account of the police chief. The police officer's apartment was actually directly below the one of the man she shot - she went to the wrong floor:

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/10/us/dallas-police-officer-amber-guyger-arrest/index.html
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This is absolutely shocking. I'll be amazing if she wasn't drunk.

What people seem to be missing though is this is nothing to do with her being a cop in the slightest. With firearms legislation in the US as it is this scenario can, and I'm sure has, happened before. Fact is it wouldn't if the law was more restrictive.
 
There's a slight difference between it happening with a trained officer and some random carrying a gun around with them isn't there?
 
choiboyx012 said:
It's only for the select incidents/suspects posted here that are extreme cases. But yea, when you work dealing with violent criminals and their victims (including personal family and friends) for a while you start to have a more cold view of them.
I'm sorry if i offended you or anyone else, but I'm just not as forgiving and optimistic when it comes to violent behavior, especially when it comes to killing someone. And again the times I've used the label scumbags or wastes of oxygen are for the more extreme cases, which they absolutely were imo.
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What an ironic statement, especially in this thread.
 
TheReligion said:
This is absolutely shocking. I'll be amazing if she wasn't drunk.

What people seem to be missing though is this is nothing to do with her being a cop in the slightest. With firearms legislation in the US as it is this scenario can, and I'm sure has, happened before. Fact is it wouldn't if the law was more restrictive.
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A civilian wouldnt be getting defended in such a way by the police officer.
 
Yea it's a different approach by the new chief to be more transparent and cater to the public's demands for quicker release of videos of shootings. More depts should do this to give their official stance and analysis of critical events to avoid the media controlling the narrative from the get-go
 
choiboyx012 said:
Not really, but sure
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You recognise that exposed interaction with, proximity to, and experience of violent behaviour of criminals jades your view of them, right?
You just only understand this from the perspective of being a cop.

People in the neighbourhoods who have grown up with aggressive cops, or anybody who has any experience with them, also have their view jaded too.
But if someone was to call groups scumbags or waste of oxygen - you'd be upset, right?

All i'm saying is that a little perspective is needed here, if you keep viewing the people you're serving as a waste of oxygen then I find it difficult to believe that you're viewing everyone fairly, while wanting equal treatment yourself.
 
villain said:
You recognise that exposed interaction with, proximity to, and experience of violent behaviour of criminals jades your view of them, right?
You just only understand this from the perspective of being a cop.

People in the neighbourhoods who have grown up with aggressive cops, or anybody who has any experience with them, also have their view jaded too.
But if someone was to call groups scumbags or waste of oxygen - you'd be upset, right?

All i'm saying is that a little perspective is needed here, if you keep viewing the people you're serving as a waste of oxygen then I find it difficult to believe that you're viewing everyone fairly, while wanting equal treatment yourself.
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I have never called groups of people scumbags, especially the people i serve. I've pointed out specific suspects who have shot at or stabbed people or officers with the intent to maim and kill
 
choiboyx012 said:
I have never called groups of people scumbags, especially the people i serve. I've pointed out specific suspects who have shot at or stabbed people or officers with the intent to maim and kill
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I didn't say you did. I was making the general point that you're obviously affected by things that happen to police officers, understandably.
That same empathy should extend to those in the community who grow up with the trauma of seeing their loved ones/friends killed/harassed by the bad cops, no?
 
villain said:
I didn't say you did. I was making the general point that you're obviously affected by things that happen to police officers, understandably.
That same empathy should extend to those in the community who grow up with the trauma of seeing their loved ones/friends killed/harassed by the bad cops, no?
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Yes of course
 
choiboyx012 said:

Pretty scary how everything can turn for the worse in milliseconds. Thankfully the partner officer was quick to react, draw and shoot accurately. Another waste of oxygen gone too.
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You’ve got to wonder, what is this guy thinking. Obviously he knows he is screwed as soon as they pull him over, not from America but i’d Imagine being a convict out on probation and having possession of a gun is a big no no. Do not pass go and go straight to jail situation.
However instead of just taking what is coming he decides the best bet is to shoot the officers and try and get away which even if he survived just made the situation 10x worse. Just stupidity really.

Also isn’t the protocol that he puts both hands out the window and the officer opens the door?
 
TheReligion said:
This is absolutely shocking. I'll be amazing if she wasn't drunk.

What people seem to be missing though is this is nothing to do with her being a cop in the slightest. With firearms legislation in the US as it is this scenario can, and I'm sure has, happened before. Fact is it wouldn't if the law was more restrictive.
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Its absolutely relevant that she is police. This incident is a clear example that Dallas PD needs to be investigated and their policies likely need to change quite a bit.

First, its questionable whether she has received adequate training with her firearm. Second, based on reports she just finished a "15 hour shift" which if true, indicates a department that is overworking and under supporting its officers. Third, Guyger was in an officer shooting last year killing a suspect. Did she receive adequeate psychological conseling for killing someone? It doesnt appear so. Fourth, the fact it took so long for her to even get arrested suggests the investigation began under different auspices than civilian shootings. Fifth the fact she is a cop means gun control is irrelevant as she would have been armed no matter what gun control existed hypothetically.

This shooting absolutely proves the Dallas PD needs to be investigated and likely needs some serious policy changes. If Guyger was not drunk or on drugs, signs point to the Dallas PD being negligent on several levels.
 
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oneniltothearsenal said:
Its absolutely relevant that she is police. This incident is a clear example that Dallas PD needs to be investigated and their policies likely need to change quite a bit.

First, its questionable whether she has received adequate training with her firearm. Second, based on reports she just finished a "15 hour shift" which if true, indicates a department that is overworking and under supporting its officers. Third, Guyger was in an officer shooting last year killing a suspect. Did she receive adequeate psychological conseling for killing someone? It doesnt appear so. Fourth, the fact it took so long for her to even get arrested suggests the investigation began under different auspices than civilian shootings. Fifth the fact she is a cop means gun control is irrelevant as she would have been armed no matter what gun control existed hypothetically.

This shooting absolutely proves the Dallas PD needs to be investigated and likely needs some serious policy changes. If Guyger was not drunk or on drugs, signs point to the Dallas PD being negligent on several levels.
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Unless there are others the person she shot last year (Uvaldo Perez) seems to have been wounded, not killed.
 
Penna said:
This is the account of the police chief. The police officer's apartment was actually directly below the one of the man she shot - she went to the wrong floor:

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/10/us/dallas-police-officer-amber-guyger-arrest/index.html
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It should be stated that the suspect has a definite interest in making stuff up and her tale of events doesn't seem to tally with the reports from neighbours who say that they heard her banging on the door and demanding access.
 
It just doesn't sound reasonable that a bloke in his own apartment would have left the door ajar and the lights off. I'm surprised they didn't find a gun on the floor next to his body too.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
You’ve got to wonder, what is this guy thinking. Obviously he knows he is screwed as soon as they pull him over, not from America but i’d Imagine being a convict out on probation and having possession of a gun is a big no no. Do not pass go and go straight to jail situation.
However instead of just taking what is coming he decides the best bet is to shoot the officers and try and get away which even if he survived just made the situation 10x worse. Just stupidity really.

Also isn’t the protocol that he puts both hands out the window and the officer opens the door?
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Person with his background doesn't think like your average joe citizen. He was probably feeling desperate once his vehicle got pulled over, and fight or flight response kicked in once he was ordered out the car
 
Grinner said:
It just doesn't sound reasonable that a bloke in his own apartment would have left the door ajar and the lights off. I'm surprised they didn't find a gun on the floor next to his body too.
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I get unlikely scenarios happen but it does seem quite the meeting of coincidences doesn't it? Tired person after shift happens to be armed. Walks Drives up a further floor than necessary and misses the red doormat and door numbers due to fatigue. At the exact same moment this door happens to be ajar, but not so ajar as you'd notice so you put your keycard in anyway. Despite it being night and the apartment occupied all the lights inside are off though the victim is in plain view. It requires a suspension of disbelief even if it's a movie scene.
 
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oneniltothearsenal said:
Its absolutely relevant that she is police. This incident is a clear example that Dallas PD needs to be investigated and their policies likely need to change quite a bit.

First, its questionable whether she has received adequate training with her firearm. Second, based on reports she just finished a "15 hour shift" which if true, indicates a department that is overworking and under supporting its officers. Third, Guyger was in an officer shooting last year killing a suspect. Did she receive adequeate psychological conseling for killing someone? It doesnt appear so. Fourth, the fact it took so long for her to even get arrested suggests the investigation began under different auspices than civilian shootings. Fifth the fact she is a cop means gun control is irrelevant as she would have been armed no matter what gun control existed hypothetically.

This shooting absolutely proves the Dallas PD needs to be investigated and likely needs some serious policy changes. If Guyger was not drunk or on drugs, signs point to the Dallas PD being negligent on several levels.
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You obviously know alot more about all this than I do but the bolded bit was kind of my point. Firearms cops in the UK don't routinely carry their guns off duty. That's because there's no need due to the legislation that's in place. If the law in the US was lifted from the dark ages this kind of thing doesn't happen. The fact is can't anyone carry a gun in Texas? Which is why her being a cop (when looking at this specific incident) isn't really relevant to me.

She could have been a tired factory worker returning home for only the same thing to happen.
 
choiboyx012 said:
Yea it's a different approach by the new chief to be more transparent and cater to the public's demands for quicker release of videos of shootings. More depts should do this to give their official stance and analysis of critical events to avoid the media controlling the narrative from the get-go
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It's very good and shows total transparency.
 
TheReligion said:
You obviously know alot more about all this than I do but the bolded bit was kind of my point. Firearms cops in the UK don't routinely carry their guns off duty. That's because there's no need due to the legislation that's in place. If the law in the US was lifted from the dark ages this kind of thing doesn't happen. The fact is can't anyone carry a gun in Texas? Which is why her being a cop (when looking at this specific incident) isn't really relevant to me.

She could have been a tired factory worker returning home for only the same thing to happen.
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Speaking for myself, the difference I was talking about is that she had undergone training that your average random hasn't.
 
TheReligion said:
You obviously know alot more about all this than I do but the bolded bit was kind of my point. Firearms cops in the UK don't routinely carry their guns off duty. That's because there's no need due to the legislation that's in place. If the law in the US was lifted from the dark ages this kind of thing doesn't happen. The fact is can't anyone carry a gun in Texas? Which is why her being a cop (when looking at this specific incident) isn't really relevant to me.

She could have been a tired factory worker returning home for only the same thing to happen.
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Sure, if she was a factory worker then there would be questions regarding that factory if it turned out she was not drunk/on drugs or had some private personal vendetta. But she wasn't a factory worker, she was Dallas police so that begs questions about the Dallas PD. We really need more information on this one to really come to conclusions though. Too much is just bizarre about this one and there have been various reports. We need more info first.

But if she wasn't drunk/high and she didn't have a personal vendetta then I think there are serious questions about the workplace that have to be looked into (in this case the Dallas PD).
 
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