Cop in America doing a bad job, again

Y'all sound like meat heads right now... Just saying. I can understand why you might want to point out things that you as police may know more about. But making light of excessive violence by police, and blind defence of anything they do, does nothing to change the thoughts and opinions that people like myself hold towards you and your jobs.

If anything it makes it worse...
 
afrocentricity said:
Y'all sound like meat heads right now... Just saying. I can understand why you might want to point out things that you as police may know more about. But making light of excessive violence by police, and blind defence of anything they do, does nothing to change the thoughts and opinions that people like myself hold towards you and your jobs.

If anything it makes it worse...
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Theres been countless times myself and other have come into this thread and pointed out things that may not be know to people outside the profession. It doesn't matter how many times a video comes out with no backstory and people have gone straight away to the "all cops are racist!" Or "all cops are bad and need training!" Or whatever else is the flavor of the month.

I've also come in here and posted videos of officers doing things flawlessly and the right thing (as @choiboyx012 did above) and no one bothers to come in and discuss any of that. I've brought up incidents I myself have been involved in with uses of force and people being shot, and again, no one cares.

This is never an open discussion, it's just a place for people to come in and cry foul whenever an officer involved anything comes out. I've been fair and critical throughout this thread, but if you just want this as a place to solely discuss the bad and none of the good, carry on.

The fact that we sound like "meatheads" because we ironically commented the same thing people criticize officers for on almost every shoot, should also highlight how stupid a point it is to start with.

Show me where I made light of any officer using excessive violence or unauthorized use of force?

Show me where I've made a blind defense of any and all officer involved incidents?

If this is what you decided to focus on instead of the countless other posts both of us have made throughout the thread condemning officers for their incidents, then why would I try and change your thoughts or opinions when you've clearly cemented them as they are?
 
JustAFan said:
Thought NOT was the case, but just wanted to be sure as we have had people seriously expecting all cops to be able to make shots that they see on TV shows or movies.
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It's a ridiculous critique, and such a lazy one.

"Oh they can't shoot an arm or a leg to disable someone with a knife? They need to train more then!"

I assume that training would also include aiming at part of the leg that would not involve hitting any major arteries that could cause a bleed out too, of course.
 
Skizzo said:
Theres been countless times myself and other have come into this thread and pointed out things that may not be know to people outside the profession. It doesn't matter how many times a video comes out with no backstory and people have gone straight away to the "all cops are racist!" Or "all cops are bad and need training!" Or whatever else is the flavor of the month.

I've also come in here and posted videos of officers doing things flawlessly and the right thing (as @choiboyx012 did above) and no one bothers to come in and discuss any of that. I've brought up incidents I myself have been involved in with uses of force and people being shot, and again, no one cares.

This is never an open discussion, it's just a place for people to come in and cry foul whenever an officer involved anything comes out. I've been fair and critical throughout this thread, but if you just want this as a place to solely discuss the bad and none of the good, carry on.

The fact that we sound like "meatheads" because we ironically commented the same thing people criticize officers for on almost every shoot, should also highlight how stupid a point it is to start with.

Show me where I made light of any officer using excessive violence or unauthorized use of force?

Show me where I've made a blind defense of any and all officer involved incidents?

If this is what you decided to focus on instead of the countless other posts both of us have made throughout the thread condemning officers for their incidents, then why would I try and change your thoughts or opinions when you've clearly cemented them as they are?
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I've seen you both do it though (what seems like blind support) so not sure why you're claiming you don't.

We aren't thick either, we fully realise that there are cases where lethal force is warranted. You're more than welcome to concentrate on that part while we concentrate on the cases where it seems excessive. It's as though you think that because lethal force is sometimes warranted that it therefore is always warranted.... Shoot first? Take no chances? No? So what is your argument then?

Your responses to each other indicates that you both feel a way about the general tone in this thread, but instead of trying to empathise, you seem to have more affinity with the police, just because they are police. Moan all you like about the way people look at you and your fellow officers, or think about why they do and join the conversation about how we can do better... Because I don't see much of that from either of you. I see minimal criticism, no suggestions, nothing...
 
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afrocentricity said:
I've seen you both do it though (what seems like blind support) so not sure why you're claiming you don't.
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So it seems like it? That's hardly any kind of confirmation. At best I've said wait until all information is available before calling for an officers head.

We aren't thick either, we fully realise that there are cases where lethal force is warranted. You're more than welcome to concentrate on that part while we concentrate on the cases where it seems excessive. It's as though you think that because lethal force is sometimes warranted that it therefore is always warranted.... Shoot first? Take no chances? No? So what is your argument then?
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Again you're generalizing about how I must think because I've agreed some of those were justified? Show me where I've said everyone needs to be shot all the time. Every incident varies from the last, I've seen these incident unfold in person and still don't believe everything is "shoot first".

Your responses to each other indicates that you both feel a way about the general tone in this thread, but instead of trying to empathise, you seem to have more affinity with the police, just because they are police. Moan all you like about the way people look at you and your fellow officers, or think about why they do and join the conversation about how we can do better... Because I don't see much of that from either of you. I see minimal criticism, no suggestions, nothing...
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I'm empathized with the victims in this thread and agreed when the use of force was excessive or unwarranted. I've offered suggestion and my opinion when talking to other posters who have enquired about it, as has @choiboyx012 when he's been asked. If you can't see that, or refuse to believe we've offered more than "minimal" criticism then you either haven't seen our posts on the matter, or don't want to.

That's up to you. I've been more than happy to have discussions in here when someone's able to put forth an actual discussion, even when it may be on points of contention.

@vi1lain and I have butted heads on more than one occasion, but I absolutely respect her stance on the issue, and she puts forth many a good argument or question.

If you think myself or any other officers in here don't add anything worthwhile to your discussion, I'll gladly take leave and let you carry on. Maybe you can scroll back through my posts at some point and dig out the ones where I mentioned both sides have a lot of work to do in improving relations, and neither side can make the necessary changes on their own.
 
Skizzo said:
If you think myself or any other officers in here don't add anything worthwhile to your discussion, I'll gladly take leave and let you carry on. Maybe you can scroll back through my posts at some point and dig out the ones where I mentioned both sides have a lot of work to do in improving relations, and neither side can make the necessary changes on their own.
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I'm not telling you to leave. Why would I? It would be nice to hear more than the usual 'It's them or us', 'Center mass' or 'We live in fear', but I don't spend all my time in here so I accept that I may have missed your more nuanced posts...

On your last sentence, I fully agree. Which is why I get wound up when police officers take the same line and either defend there colleagues (blindly) or see the victim as one of the many stereotypes (druggie or dealer etc.) they may or may not deal with on a daily basis. If I lived in your country I'd fear for my life in most confrontations with the police simply because I am black, dress and sound a certain way. At least the most that would happen over here is that I may get an excessive charge or a smack. You have problems over there and pretending you don't isn't helping anybody...
 
afrocentricity said:
I'm not telling you to leave. Why would I? It would be nice to hear more than the usual 'It's them or us', 'Center mass' or 'We live in fear', but I don't spend all my time in here so I accept that I may have missed your more nuanced posts...

On your last sentence, I fully agree. Which is why I get wound up when police officers take the same line and either defend there colleagues (blindly) or see the victim as one of the many stereotypes (druggie or dealer etc.) they may or may not deal with on a daily basis. If I lived in your country I'd fear for my life in most confrontations with the police simply because I am black, dress and sound a certain way. At least the most that would happen over here is that I may get an excessive charge or a smack. You have problems over there and pretending you don't isn't helping anybody...
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See? We agree on much more than we probably both first thought.

As a general thought, there are probably a majority of incidents in here where the officer did go way beyond what was necessary, both in some of the deadly force incident, and the less lethal ones also. I understand that there's a preconception that all cops cover each other's back no matter what, but that isn't the case. It's as if I said that a black person thinks that any black person shot by police was a saint. There's absolutely people that fall into both those categories, but it's certainly not all. There also needs to be a serious open line of communication between the decision makers on both sides to find out where they can go from here.

As for my own experiences, I work in both affluent areas with the ridiculously large and expensive houses like in Los Altos, and the areas where there's less affluent areas like East Palo Alto. I try and treat everyone the same way, regardless of the car they're in, or the driver themselves. For me personally, and I can only speak for myself in this regard, but if I stop and contact someone and they're polite and honest about the reason I stopped them, I'll often send them on their way with a warning and a smile. Regardless of race, if someone lies to my face about how fast they were going, or what they were doing..or are flat out rude and confrontational because they're pissed off they got caught going 90 miles an hour..then it's a whole other story.

I've had white ladies cry and cuss me out because I gave them a ticket for being solo in the carpool. I've had an Asian lady in a BMW film me and say I was targeting her because it just so happens she blew by me on two separate occasions at 85-90 mph, and both times tell me she was maybe going 65 at the most. And I've had black people tell me I stopped them because they're black...even though I couldn't see who the feck was driving because they practically had limo tint on their front windows.

I guess I'm basically an equal opportunity asshole is what I'm saying.

I also don't necessarily relate to the "typical American" tag because, well, I'm not actually American.
 
Crazy high speed chase caught on tv...

@Skizzo
@choiboyx012

This was on LivePD recently - it's from Richland County, SC (suburbs of Columbia)

1) I can't believe that guy did that with his toddler in the car

2) I can't believe the toddler survived

 
choiboyx012 said:
Can't hear the audio, but wtf! Was he high or something? feckin scum
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Dunno why audio isn't working for you. It worked on my iPhone and laptop. It's all over the Internet if you can find a vid that works.
Edit: video of very end of chase...


As far as charges...
Martin now faces the following charges: child endangerment, reckless driving, simple possession of marijuana, driving under suspension third offense, failure to stop for blue lights/sirens, and resisting arrest.
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Carolina Red said:
Crazy high speed chase caught on tv...

@Skizzo
@choiboyx012

This was on LivePD recently - it's from Richland County, SC (suburbs of Columbia)

1) I can't believe that guy did that with his toddler in the car

2) I can't believe the toddler survived

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That was nuts. Pretty scary when the cop had him in that mma-type chokehold. The guy was clearly reaching into his pockets and was also close enough to reach for the cop's gun while they were wrestling. Great job by the police officer, but seemed like he prolly took more risk than police protocol dictates. The driver is lucky he made it out alive.
 
Man of Leisure said:
That was nuts. Pretty scary when the cop had him in that mma-type chokehold. The guy was clearly reaching into his pockets and was also close enough to reach for the cop's gun while they were wrestling. Great job by the police officer, but seemed like he prolly took more risk than police protocol dictates. The driver is lucky he made it out alive.
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Yeah it was nuts man.

As a wrestling coach, I can say that it looks like that guy wrestled in HS/College and/or was trained in wrestling when he became a cop. He did a great job keeping pressure on top of the guy with his toes and did a good mat return to get him down

@choiboyx012 @Skizzo
Anything you could say about how the officer took the perp down?
 
Carolina Red said:
Yeah it was nuts man.

As a wrestling coach, I can say that it looks like that guy wrestled in HS/College and/or was trained in wrestling when he became a cop. He did a great job keeping pressure on top of the guy with his toes and did a good mat return to get him down

@choiboyx012 @Skizzo
Anything you could say about how the officer took the perp down?
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It seemed to be the best immediate decision as the guy had his daughter in his arms, so that pretty much cancels out using any other type of force unless you risk injuring the girl.

I'd say he probably didn't want to separate once he started wrestling him to the ground because he had his back and was somewhat in control, and separating might allow the guy to rush towards his daughter or re established balance or fighting platform. although since he seemed to be on some kind of drug, wresting and rolling around with him like that could definitely lead to getting seriously hurt or worse.

Once the guy rolled onto his back and his arm was free to reach into his pocket like that, personally I'd either try and get control of both arms, or separate and look into using a taser to try and get some kind of compliance. Sometimes just sparking the probes without firing is enough to get enough compliance to get him into cuffs or wait for additional units.

All that being said, it's much easier to st here and Monday morning quarterback it. At the end of the day, as long as everyone goes home (or to jail if they belong) then that's all you can hope for.
 
Skizzo said:
It seemed to be the best immediate decision as the guy had his daughter in his arms, so that pretty much cancels out using any other type of force unless you risk injuring the girl.

I'd say he probably didn't want to separate once he started wrestling him to the ground because he had his back and was somewhat in control, and separating might allow the guy to rush towards his daughter or re established balance or fighting platform. although since he seemed to be on some kind of drug, wresting and rolling around with him like that could definitely lead to getting seriously hurt or worse.

Once the guy rolled onto his back and his arm was free to reach into his pocket like that, personally I'd either try and get control of both arms, or separate and look into using a taser to try and get some kind of compliance. Sometimes just sparking the probes without firing is enough to get enough compliance to get him into cuffs or wait for additional units.

All that being said, it's much easier to st here and Monday morning quarterback it. At the end of the day, as long as everyone goes home (or to jail if they belong) then that's all you can hope for.
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I appreciate the input!

I figured going hands on is definitely the last thing the officer wanted to do. As I said earlier though, I was impressed by some of his moves, but I can see how it opens the officer up to the perp grabbing a weapon.
 
He did an excellent job considering he was all by himself. I don't know how rural that area is but I'm blessed to have backup units within a minute. Many sheriff departments that cover a lot of ground are used to taking care of business on their own without any help for miles and miles, so kudos to them. Agree with @Skizzo, I got a little scared when the guy was freely reaching into his pocket with his free arm which I don't even think the deputy noticed. Thank God he didn't have a knife or a gun. That was probably the only issue I could see. He had the dominant position but I would try to get both arms incapacitated ASAP. I don't know what their use of force policy is, but IMO it would be appropriate to start throwing punches earlier on in the scuffle especially when the suspect starts reaching towards his pocket. But whatever it takes to go home in one piece.
 
schwarzfahren said:
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Pit bulls? Damn cop missed the shots!
2 pit bulls attacked a 6 months old puppy in front of my house and in front of my daughter when she was 5, cost me $3500 in vet fees and still they had to put the dog to sleep, luckily I wasn't around because I would be arrested but I did got the guy (a petty criminal with a bracelet on his ankle) and I beat the shit of the guy and his girlfriend called the cops to have the guy arrested because all my neighbors said he attack me :devil:
 
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Orlando police officers pulled over the state attorney... body cam video is in the linked article.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/12/us/fl...rney-aramis-ayala-traffic-stop0916PMStoryLink

"What agency are you with?" the officer with the body camera asks as he looks at her identification.
"I'm the state attorney" she responds, kicking off a terse exchange.

The officer tells Ayala that he and his partner pulled her over after a check of her license plate came up empty. She asks what the tag was run for and he tells her they run tags all the time.

"Also, the windows are really dark, I don't have a tint measure but that's another reason for the stop," he adds.

Ayala smiles as he replies and asks for the officers' business cards before they leave without issuing a citation.
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NSFW

And not a cop, exactly



I don't agree with the caption, police forces elsewhere are worse.
 
berbatrick said:
NSFW

And not a cop, exactly



I don't agree with the caption, police forces elsewhere are worse.
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Cannot tell what happened to lead up to the dog being attached to the man's arm, but there might be a lawsuit incoming for that. Depends on whatever led up to that point.
 
Police Reopen Probe After Video Surfaces of Cop Beating Homeless Woman

A cellphone video that shows a police officer in Georgia repeatedly striking a homeless woman with his baton has reopened an investigation into the woman’s arrest last month, authorities announced on Monday.

The nearly two-minute-long video, recorded on June 4, shows the DeKalb County officer beating the woman and threatening to shoot her as she struggles on the ground of a convenience store.

Though police reported that the woman was unarmed, she was at times seen using her legs to try to kick the officer. There’s at least one moment when she doesn’t appear to move at all before she’s repeatedly hit.

Dekalb County police spokeswoman Shiera Campbell said the renewed investigation is in response to the video appearing on social media over the weekend.

“It’s more we’re looking at the video to see if it aligns with the officer’s statement. Right now, what he put in his report is consistent with the video,” she told HuffPost on Tuesday.

According to the police report, the officer, who is not identified, was responding to a complaint of a woman asking for money from customers inside the store. When he approached the woman, identified as 38-year-old Katie McCrary, she presented herself as a federal agent and gave a random badge number.

When the officer reportedly warned her that she could be arrested for impersonating an officer, McCrary accused him of impersonating an officer himself and then grabbed his badge, his vest and radio. Those acts led to the violent scuffle on the ground.

“Let go or I’m going to shoot you,” the officer is heard twice telling her after she grabs his baton. People standing off camera are heard telling the woman to “stop resisting.” A woman also pleads with the officer to not shoot.

At one point, the officer is seen using the stick to press the back of McCrary’s neck down to the ground.

In the arrest report, he said he delivered an “unknown amount of baton strikes to her left leg.” When she didn’t comply with his orders to put her hands behind her back, he continued to hit her legs and forearms.

“One strike inadvertently struck the side of her head as she was moving around,” he reported.

After being placed under arrest, McCrary was examined at the scene by an EMS unit before transported to the DeKalb County Jail. She was then sent to Grady Memorial Hospital for further evaluation, according to the arrest report.

The officer reported seeing a “1/2 inch laceration on her left shin and a welt on her left forearm.“

An internal investigation following the matter “found that the use of force was justified,” Campbell said.

“The officer was cleared, following the Internal Affairs investigation,” the police department said in a statement. “Now that the Department has this new evidence we have reopened the investigation and will determine whether the incident is consistent with policy and the law.”
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White Cop Who 'Defensively' Shot Daughter's Unarmed Black Boyfriend When He 'Reached Out to Shake His Hand' Has Third Mistrial
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Holmes had instructed jurors that they could convict Kepler of first-degree murder or the lesser charge of manslaughter. When the jury deadlocked at 6-6, Kunzweiler said it was unclear if the breakdown was six for conviction and six for acquittal or six for murder and six for the charge of manslaughter.
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Testimony from his daughter:
Lisa Kepler told jurors about how her adoptive parents dropped her off at a homeless shelter a week or two earlier because she had been acting out and sneaking off at night. She said that’s where she met Lake, who frequented the shelter to give people water and help out. Lake took Lisa Kepler to stay with him and his aunt because, as she put it, “Once you’re 18 at the homeless shelter, you’re shark bait. Everybody wants to sink their teeth into you, you know what I mean?”

Her father, according to prosecutors, started searching Facebook after becoming worried about her whereabouts and found that she had started a relationship with Lake. Shannon Kepler looked up Lake’s address and drove there in an SUV.

Lisa Kepler testified she and Lake had walked to a nearby underpass to give water and food to the homeless people who slept there and saw the SUV parked in front of Lake’s house when they returned. She said her father rolled down the window and asked her what she was doing there, but she didn’t remember how she responded. She said she told Lake she wanted to walk back to the house and did so. She testified she had her back turned when she heard several gunshots and then saw Lake lying on the ground as the SUV drove off.

Before passing the witness to the defense, Gray played the 911 tape in which a distraught Lisa Kepler can be heard frantically telling a dispatcher that her father had shot her boyfriend. Lisa Kepler, who was hearing the call for at least the third time since the shooting, looked down and played with her hair as jurors listened.

O’Carroll did not ask her about the actual shooting. His questions centered on Lake’s alleged criminal history. “A person’s past is a person’s past,” Lisa Kepler responded. “You can change that at any moment.”
...
None of the witnesses said they saw a gun at the scene, disputing allegations by the defense that Lake had a firearm at the time of the shooting, prompting Shannon Kepler to fear for his life.
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