This was released by lapd recently. fast forward to the end for raw bodycam footage. Really feckin sad. Hostage was not mobile so couldn't run away. Main criticism being only 1 of the officers had a clear shot, but the other 2 shot anyway because they observed him sawing at her neck and tried to stop the threat.
Cop in America doing a bad job, again
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This was released by lapd recently. fast forward to the end for raw bodycam footage. Really feckin sad. Hostage was not mobile so couldn't run away. Main criticism being only 1 of the officers had a clear shot, but the other 2 shot anyway because they observed him sawing at her neck and tried to stop the threat.
Eboue
nasty little twerp with crazy bitter-man opinions
well done to the police officers who killed that woman
Dr. Dwayne
Self proclaimed tagline king.
Senseless. No coordination of effort or control of the situation or their firearms. 9mm at 10ft is so easy if you keep your head you should not miss. Only one officer had a viable shot and those other three idiots just unload.
Seriously. The guy looking head on had a clear shot. Dunno what the hell the guys on the side were thinking.Senseless. No coordination of effort or control of the situation or their firearms. 9mm at 10ft is so easy if you keep your head you should not miss. Only one officer had a viable shot and those other three idiots just unload.
Skizzo
Full Member
Ferreira Cavallo, with the Hastings-on-Hudson, N.Y., department, said she immediately parked her car on the shoulder, stuffed her pockets with first-aid materials from her car and then jumped after the boy, who she said looked like a young teenager.
"I wasn't thinking too much," she said. "I just knew, when I looked down and saw him ... he looked dead. I couldn't see anything other than blood. I thought to myself, 'He needs help. I need to help him.'"
She said another woman, in a military uniform, also stopped to help.
"Both me and her together, we were able to aid him and assist him," she said.
The boy was unresponsive, she said, and they put a neck brace and a splint on him, and checked his airway.
"We were talking to each other like we worked together," she said of the other woman.
After some time, the boy opened his eyes, but was mostly non-responsive, Ferreira Cavallo said.
"I was talking," she said. "He wasn't really responding back."
Police and an ambulance transported the boy to Westchester Medical Center in Valhalla, N.Y. A call to the hospital was not immediately returned Sunday and the boy's condition was unknown.
It wasn't until Saturday, she said, that Ferreira Cavallo realized what she had done.
"Friday, after this whole thing happened, I went to work and worked to 11 p.m.," she said. "I didn't realize what was going on until yesterday. That's when it hit me. I didn't realize how high it was. It seemed doable. It didn't seem that high. I thought I jumped over a brick wall, or a cement barrier. It was so fast. It was more like tunnel vision. I saw the boy and I needed to get to him. I didn't see anything else."
She was heading to the hospital soon to visit the boy.
"I really want to know how he is doing," she said. "I don't know anything about him. I don't know his name or anything."
She said she hoped the hospital lets her see him.
"I just hope that he's doing well," she said. "I just want to give him a hug."
This isn't the first time Ferreira Cavallo has saved a life. The 28-year-old officer said she has received about six lifesaving awards in her seven years as a police officer.
While working as a Mount Vernon officer, she saved an elderly man after a heart attack by using a defibrillator and cardiopulmonary resuscitation, and she received several awards in Hastings for administering naloxone in heroin overdoses.
She has also been recognized for undercover work with the FBI and a county task force.
TheReligion
Abusive
well done to the police officers who killed that woman
That's very harsh. That situation was extremely difficult to deal with. If they didn't act the woman was already dead as she was having her throat cut.
Senseless. No coordination of effort or control of the situation or their firearms. 9mm at 10ft is so easy if you keep your head you should not miss. Only one officer had a viable shot and those other three idiots just unload.
Keeping your head is the key part here. People aren't just shooting targets like civilian gun owners, this is real life/death situations. Easy to be critical behind a computer screen.
Seriously. The guy looking head on had a clear shot. Dunno what the hell the guys on the side were thinking.
It does seem odd they unloaded so many rounds. The situation escalated very quickly though.
@Skizzo @choiboyx012
We have these situations in the UK fairly often (not always hostage but people brandishing knives). What is the usual protocol in dealing with them in the US?
We would use taser as it incapacitates. A much better choice here for me rather than beanbag although getting a clean spread on the body would have been difficult as he had a chair.
Edit: I've watched it back and definitely think taser would have resolved this without loss of life.
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Nikhil
New Member
Chicago appeals for help after dozens shot over weekend
Police in the US city of Chicago have asked for more help to combat gun violence after more than 60 people were shot over the weekend.
At least 10 people were killed in the city and police say most of the shootings were gang related.
"I'm tired of it, everyone in this city is tired of it," police superintendent Eddie Johnson told reporters on Monday.
"We continue to send a message that it's ok to commit these crimes by not doing anything as a community."
Most of the shootings happened on Sunday with 30 people shot between midnight and 03:00.
The majority of the incidents reportedly occurred in Chicago's south and west sides.
At Monday's news conference, Mr Johnson said that police had "really good leads on quite a few" of the suspected shooters, but no arrests have been made.
He said "the city isn't on fire," but emphasised the need for community members to identify the individuals causing the violence.
"Certainly CPD [Chicago Police Department] can do better but at the end of the day, the members of CPD don't go to bed with these individuals at night, they don't wake up with them in the morning," Mr Johnson said.
"Somebody knows who did it. They hold me accountable, they hold the mayor accountable, they hold the city council accountable - where's their accountability? I never hear people saying these individuals out here in the streets need to stop pulling the trigger."
Mayor Rahm Emanuel echoed Mr Johnson's call for citizens to speak out.
"All of us who love this city and call it home have a responsibility to heal our neighbourhoods," he said.
Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani also weighed in about the weekend violence, calling it Mr Emanuel's "legacy".
He incorrectly tweeted that there were "63 murders this weekend" - at least 10 individuals were shot and killed, while others were injured.
Mr Giuliani, who is currently a lawyer for President Donald Trump, blamed "one party Democratic rule" for the shootings.
In a series of tweets on Sunday, Mr Giuliani also voiced his support for mayoral candidate Garry McCarthy, the police chief fired by Mr Emanuel following the outcry over the killing of Laquan McDonald, incorrectly calling him "Jerry".
Police called it one of Chicago's "most violent weekends" on Sunday.
Donovan Price, a pastor and emergency administrator, told CBS News that the city was like a "war zone".
"This is just out of control right now," he said. "It's a war zone going on right now. Chicago is just crazy."
"This is the worst I've ever seen it," one police officer who was stationed outside a hospital told the Chicago Sun Times newspaper. "It's hot right now. There's a lot of tension... and it might get worse."
But officials say the spike in violence is at odds with the general trend in the city, where shootings are said to be decreasing.
Earlier this month, the Chicago Tribune reported that there had been 532 fewer shootings this year compared to 2017.
Police chief Waller told reporters that shootings had decreased by 30% from 2017, and murders by 25%.
He said that much of the weekend's violence was a result of gang members shooting at large crowds indiscriminately.
"An offender or some type of rival gang sees a large group of people... and they shoot into a crowd, no matter who they hit," he said.
"We won't be overrun by that small group, that small element that is committing these reckless acts."
US President Donald Trump has repeatedly vowed to intervene in Chicago, and last year he said that crime and killings had reached "epidemic proportions"in the city.
Last June, officials announced the creation of the Chicago Gun Strike Force which comprises city police officers, state troopers, federal agents and intelligence research specialists.
It was created to help curb the flow of illegal guns and to target repeat gun offenders, who authorities say are responsible for the city's violence problem.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45084264
Police in the US city of Chicago have asked for more help to combat gun violence after more than 60 people were shot over the weekend.
At least 10 people were killed in the city and police say most of the shootings were gang related.
"I'm tired of it, everyone in this city is tired of it," police superintendent Eddie Johnson told reporters on Monday.
"We continue to send a message that it's ok to commit these crimes by not doing anything as a community."
Most of the shootings happened on Sunday with 30 people shot between midnight and 03:00.
The majority of the incidents reportedly occurred in Chicago's south and west sides.
At Monday's news conference, Mr Johnson said that police had "really good leads on quite a few" of the suspected shooters, but no arrests have been made.
He said "the city isn't on fire," but emphasised the need for community members to identify the individuals causing the violence.
"Certainly CPD [Chicago Police Department] can do better but at the end of the day, the members of CPD don't go to bed with these individuals at night, they don't wake up with them in the morning," Mr Johnson said.
"Somebody knows who did it. They hold me accountable, they hold the mayor accountable, they hold the city council accountable - where's their accountability? I never hear people saying these individuals out here in the streets need to stop pulling the trigger."
Mayor Rahm Emanuel echoed Mr Johnson's call for citizens to speak out.
"All of us who love this city and call it home have a responsibility to heal our neighbourhoods," he said.
Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani also weighed in about the weekend violence, calling it Mr Emanuel's "legacy".
He incorrectly tweeted that there were "63 murders this weekend" - at least 10 individuals were shot and killed, while others were injured.
Mr Giuliani, who is currently a lawyer for President Donald Trump, blamed "one party Democratic rule" for the shootings.
In a series of tweets on Sunday, Mr Giuliani also voiced his support for mayoral candidate Garry McCarthy, the police chief fired by Mr Emanuel following the outcry over the killing of Laquan McDonald, incorrectly calling him "Jerry".
Police called it one of Chicago's "most violent weekends" on Sunday.
Donovan Price, a pastor and emergency administrator, told CBS News that the city was like a "war zone".
"This is just out of control right now," he said. "It's a war zone going on right now. Chicago is just crazy."
"This is the worst I've ever seen it," one police officer who was stationed outside a hospital told the Chicago Sun Times newspaper. "It's hot right now. There's a lot of tension... and it might get worse."
But officials say the spike in violence is at odds with the general trend in the city, where shootings are said to be decreasing.
Earlier this month, the Chicago Tribune reported that there had been 532 fewer shootings this year compared to 2017.
Police chief Waller told reporters that shootings had decreased by 30% from 2017, and murders by 25%.
He said that much of the weekend's violence was a result of gang members shooting at large crowds indiscriminately.
"An offender or some type of rival gang sees a large group of people... and they shoot into a crowd, no matter who they hit," he said.
"We won't be overrun by that small group, that small element that is committing these reckless acts."
US President Donald Trump has repeatedly vowed to intervene in Chicago, and last year he said that crime and killings had reached "epidemic proportions"in the city.
Last June, officials announced the creation of the Chicago Gun Strike Force which comprises city police officers, state troopers, federal agents and intelligence research specialists.
It was created to help curb the flow of illegal guns and to target repeat gun offenders, who authorities say are responsible for the city's violence problem.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45084264
Adisa
likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt
60 people over a weekend.
What the feck is wrong with Chicago?
What the feck is wrong with Chicago?
choiboyx012
Carrick>Hargreaves
@TheReligion knives are treated as deadly weapons so deadly force is an option. Ideally, the primary officer has his gun drawn giving verbal commands. A partner officer(s) should have taser or beanbag to try and incapacitate the suspect without having to shoot. In that particular video I don't think a taser would be any more effective. He used the chair as a shield. For a taser you need to be closer in distance and that can get dangerous with the way suspect was acting
@TheReligion knives are treated as deadly weapons so deadly force is an option. Ideally, the primary officer has his gun drawn giving verbal commands. A partner officer(s) should have taser or beanbag to try and incapacitate the suspect without having to shoot. In that particular video I don't think a taser would be any more effective. He used the chair as a shield.
So the best solution was to kill the hostage and the killer in a hail of bullets?
TheReligion
Abusive
@TheReligion knives are treated as deadly weapons so deadly force is an option. Ideally, the primary officer has his gun drawn giving verbal commands. A partner officer(s) should have taser or beanbag to try and incapacitate the suspect without having to shoot. In that particular video I don't think a taser would be any more effective. He used the chair as a shield.
I thought that initially however I watched again and think the opportunity arose to use taser when he initially walked at officers.
The beanbag shots would have just made him more angry and worked up IMO.
TheReligion
Abusive
So the best solution was to kill the hostage and the killer in a hail of bullets?
I think the suspect was slicing the hostages throat to be fair.
I’d say the solution is that the officer in front of him should have been the only one who pulled the trigger.So the best solution was to kill the hostage and the killer in a hail of bullets?
choiboyx012
Carrick>Hargreaves
There should only have been 1 shooter. The one with the clearer shotSo the best solution was to kill the hostage and the killer in a hail of bullets?
TheReligion
Abusive
There should only have been 1 shooter. The one with the clearer shot
I don't think they communicated particularly well with each other at that point. Prior to it they were quite good but it all went a bit hectic at the end.
choiboyx012
Carrick>Hargreaves
True, tactically they did everything by the book. But getting to the hostage at the end happened so quick. Not sure any experienced officers in their shoes would have known that the primary officer had a good angle for a shot, or communicated that to each other in the 2 seconds they had available. I think the other 2 officers just instinctively reacted to her throat getting cut and shot to stop him.I don't think they communicated particularly well with each other at that point. Prior to it they were quite good but it all went a bit hectic at the end.
Eboue
nasty little twerp with crazy bitter-man opinions
Keeping your head is the key part here. People aren't just shooting targets like civilian gun owners, this is real life/death situations. Easy to be critical behind a computer screen.
If they don't have the ability or mental capacity to work that one out, even under pressure, they shouldn't be popping shots off in the street. As far as these situations go, this was one of the least pressured I've seen. If it wasn't so horrendous it'd be like something out of a satirical dark comedy movie (which would be a fantastic idea for a movie).
barros
Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
A taser wouldn’t work on this situation and only training the officers and find out which of them should not carry a gunThat's very harsh. That situation was extremely difficult to deal with. If they didn't act the woman was already dead as she was having her throat cut.
Keeping your head is the key part here. People aren't just shooting targets like civilian gun owners, this is real life/death situations. Easy to be critical behind a computer screen.
It does seem odd they unloaded so many rounds. The situation escalated very quickly though.
@Skizzo @choiboyx012
We have these situations in the UK fairly often (not always hostage but people brandishing knives). What is the usual protocol in dealing with them in the US?
We would use taser as it incapacitates. A much better choice here for me rather than beanbag although getting a clean spread on the body would have been difficult as he had a chair.
Edit: I've watched it back and definitely think taser would have resolved this without loss of life.
Rob
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That can’t be legal? And even if it is, what a monumentally cnutish thing to do.
George Owen
LEAVE THE SFW THREAD ALONE!!1!
This was released by lapd recently. fast forward to the end for raw bodycam footage. Really feckin sad. Hostage was not mobile so couldn't run away. Main criticism being only 1 of the officers had a clear shot, but the other 2 shot anyway because they observed him sawing at her neck and tried to stop the threat.
Holy shit!! what a bunch of useless cnuts.
TheReligion
Abusive
If they don't have the ability or mental capacity to work that one out, even under pressure, they shouldn't be popping shots off in the street. As far as these situations go, this was one of the least pressured I've seen. If it wasn't so horrendous it'd be like something out of a satirical dark comedy movie (which would be a fantastic idea for a movie).
How many of these situations have you been in sorry?
TheReligion
Abusive
A taser wouldn’t work on this situation and only training the officers and find out which of them should not carry a gun
Why wouldn't taser work?
How many of these situations have you been in sorry?
Poor but predictable response. I know I wouldn't point my gun and shoot at the woman in this situation. And I'm not even supposed to be trained.
Rado_N
Yaaas Broncos!
How many of these situations have you been in sorry?
That's a terrible retort.
TheReligion
Abusive
Poor but predictable response. I know I wouldn't point my gun and shoot at the woman in this situation. And I'm not even supposed to be trained.
Serious question. How many? Or what's the most pressured situation, life or death, you have been in. I'm curious.
TheReligion
Abusive
That's a terrible retort.
No it's not. What's terrible is for someone to say that's one of the least pressured situations they've ever seen.
Ridiculous comments get ridiculous retorts.
Rado_N
Yaaas Broncos!
No it's not. What's terrible is for someone to say that's one of the least pressured situations they've ever seen.
Ridiculous comments get ridiculous retorts.
He said "as far as these situations go", i.e the situations we see presented in this thread and news reports.
His overriding point was that if a trained officer can't handle situations like that then they shouldn't be in that job.
To respond with basically "how would you handle it" is utterly ridiculous unless he's suggesting he should be working as an officer.
It's the equivalent of responding to reasonable critique in the football forum with "you couldn't do better".
Serious question. How many? Or what's the most pressured situation, life or death, you have been in. I'm curious.
It's not relevant. I know I'd not start filling both of them with bullets though. It's a ridiculous thing to do.
I'll give them that it seems as though training tells them to all shoot when one does like some kind of Reno 911 sketch, but I'd like to think a certain amount of common sense should come into policing.
No it's not. What's terrible is for someone to say that's one of the least pressured situations they've ever seen.
Ridiculous comments get ridiculous retorts.
One of the less tense situations of that sort I've seen. As soon as it ramps up there's one guy with a clear shot. Anyone trained with firearms should know he'll be taking that shot and not just start shooting for the sake of it.
The best thing is how pro gun people harp on about arming more people and just training them, yet we see the police doing daft shit all the time.
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Why wouldn't taser work?
From what I've read optimal taser range is about 10-15 feet and it never looked like the cops were anywhere near that close to him.
From what I've read optimal taser range is about 10-15 feet and it never looked like the cops were anywhere near that close to him.
They weren't in control at any point. Too far back. The first cop who addressed him sounded amped up and not calm at all.
TheReligion
Abusive
Poor but predictable response. I know I wouldn't point my gun and shoot at the woman in this situation. And I'm not even supposed to be trained.
That's the point. You don't know what you'd do.
He said "as far as these situations go", i.e the situations we see presented in this thread and news reports.
His overriding point was that if a trained officer can't handle situations like that then they shouldn't be in that job.
To respond with basically "how would you handle it" is utterly ridiculous unless he's suggesting he should be working as an officer.
It's the equivalent of responding to reasonable critique in the football forum with "you couldn't do better".
Nah. I'm making the point you just don't know how you'll react in high pressure situations (which it was, it was ridiculous to suggest it wasn't).
I sometimes think the public expect police officers to be like robots when it comes to things like this. Training only gets you so far sadly.
It's not relevant. I know I'd not start filling both of them with bullets though. It's a ridiculous thing to do.
I'll give them that it seems as though training tells them to all shoot when one does like some kind of Reno 911 sketch, but I'd like to think a certain amount of common sense should come into policing.
One of the less tense situations of that sort I've seen. As soon as it ramps up there's one guy with a clear shot. Anyone trained with firearms should know he'll be taking that shot and not just start shooting for the sake of it.
The best thing is how pro gun people harp on about arming more people and just training them, yet we see the police doing daft shit all the time.
It is relevant if you're making such bold statements. Presumably by you lack of response you haven't been in any similar situations which is understandable.
Just try making your point in a less cnutish way in future as if you read what I've posted I actually suggest things could have been done better.
TheReligion
Abusive
From what I've read optimal taser range is about 10-15 feet and it never looked like the cops were anywhere near that close to him.
I think they were when he moved towards them. I think the beanbag rounds were a bad idea. Would love to know the rationale for not having taser to hand.
TheReligion
Abusive
They weren't in control at any point. Too far back. The first cop who addressed him sounded amped up and not calm at all.
Agree with this to an extent. They should have closed him down quicker. Not sure why they are taking cover when he's got a chair in one hand and a knife in the other.
To Protect and Serve....not cower behind your patrol car door.
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I think they were when he moved towards them. I think the beanbag rounds were a bad idea. Would love to know the rationale for not having taser to hand.
The bean bags were pretty pointless imo. Unless they are going to do the job and incapacitate him they shouldn't be used at all since they would just piss him off and cause him to look for a human shield.
choiboyx012
Carrick>Hargreaves
If he's using the chair as a shield that covers his torso, there's not much to aim at with a taser, which isn't all that accurate and effective anyway. And you need to be closer in distance compared to beanbag, so if it failed the suspect would be able to lunge at the officer and stab him before he could draw out.Why wouldn't taser work?
TheReligion
Abusive
The bean bags were pretty pointless imo. Unless they are going to do the job and incapacitate him they shouldn't be used at all since they would just piss him off and cause him to look for a human shield.
Exactly. That's how I saw it. If they had opted for taser it would highly likely have incapacitated him.
Beanbags were ridiculous. If that's all they do then what on earth is the point in having them?
choiboyx012
Carrick>Hargreaves
I haven't confined but did any of the beanbags hit?The bean bags were pretty pointless imo. Unless they are going to do the job and incapacitate him they shouldn't be used at all since they would just piss him off and cause him to look for a human shield.
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