Cop in America doing a bad job, again

choiboyx012 said:
If he's using the chair as a shield that covers his torso, there's not much to aim at with a taser, which isn't all that accurate and effective anyway. And you need to be closer in distance compared to beanbag, so if it failed the suspect would be able to lunge at the officer and stab him before he could draw out.
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I disagree. Taser is highly effective in my opinion and essential use in situations such as this.

The suspect was not running at anyone. He only took the hostage when beanbags were unloaded at him. Really poor tactical option in that situation for me.

I accept he had the chair but you watch the video im confident there's a few opportunities to use taser when he moves forward at the cops before withdrawing to the female.
 
choiboyx012 said:
I haven't confined but did any of the beanbags hit?
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They may have partially hit him or the chair he was holding, but the very fact that he was protecting himself with a chair was good enough reason to avoid going the bean bag route altogether. They should've simply told him to drop the knife and if he didn't then used deadly force. Allowing him to continue walking around to even reach the woman was a massive mistake.
 
Raoul said:
They may have partially hit him or the chair he was holding, but the very fact that he was protecting himself with a chair was good enough reason to avoid going the bean bag route altogether. They should've simply told him to drop the knife and if he didn't then used deadly force. Allowing him to continue walking around to even reach the woman was a massive mistake.
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With 20/20 hindsight, hell yes that would have been the best outcome. 1 piece of shit scumbag gone from the world. I'm sure the officers would have wanted to go back in time to fix that. But they would've been burned for going against their training, which is to keep distance and use less lethal devices to preserve that cnut's life. And the public would be outraged for excessive force and cops being trigger happy and needlessly killing a man when he wasn't an immediate danger.
 
choiboyx012 said:
With 20/20 hindsight, hell yes that would have been the best outcome. 1 piece of shit scumbag gone from the world. I'm sure the officers would have wanted to go back in time to fix that. But they would've been burned for going against their training, which is to keep distance and use less lethal devices to preserve that cnut's life. And the public would be outraged for excessive force and cops being trigger happy and needlessly killing a man when he wasn't an immediate danger.
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I don't think so. Didn't the radio call indicate he had already stabbed someone? That means that they could have taken him down and I don't think there would have been too much outrage.
 
Was he definitely a piece of shit scumbag? Has it been established that he wasn't mentally ill? I don't believe police should be allowed to execute people for being mentally ill.
 
choiboyx012 said:
With 20/20 hindsight, hell yes that would have been the best outcome. 1 piece of shit scumbag gone from the world. I'm sure the officers would have wanted to go back in time to fix that. But they would've been burned for going against their training, which is to keep distance and use less lethal devices to preserve that cnut's life. And the public would be outraged for excessive force and cops being trigger happy and needlessly killing a man when he wasn't an immediate danger.
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Its a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. The bean bags were clearly not the solution given the chair was blocking his torso, therefore the option was deadly force or allow him to harm others.
 
Grinner said:
I don't think so. Didn't the radio call indicate he had already stabbed someone? That means that they could have taken him down and I don't think there would have been too much outrage.
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Yea his girlfriend or ex gf i believe. In today's political climate? Yea i believe there would be outrage. Regardless of public opinion their job at that moment was to get him into custody as safely, effectively, swiftly as possible, hence, sticking to their protocol and exhausting their less lethal options until he becomes an immediate threat to someone
 
Grinner said:
Was he definitely a piece of shit scumbag? Has it been established that he wasn't mentally ill? I don't believe police should be allowed to execute people for being mentally ill.
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Don't know but anyone with his criminal history, and being a documented gang member, who stabs his girlfriend and puts a knife to a disabled elderly lady's throat is definitely a piece of shit scumbag to me.
 
choiboyx012 said:
Don't know but anyone with his criminal history, and being a documented gang member, who stabs his girlfriend and puts a knife to a disabled elderly lady's throat is definitely a piece of shit scumbag to me.
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I didn't know all that. That's why I asked.
 
TheReligion said:
That's the point. You don't know what you'd do.



Nah. I'm making the point you just don't know how you'll react in high pressure situations (which it was, it was ridiculous to suggest it wasn't).

I sometimes think the public expect police officers to be like robots when it comes to things like this. Training only gets you so far sadly.



It is relevant if you're making such bold statements. Presumably by you lack of response you haven't been in any similar situations which is understandable.

Just try making your point in a less cnutish way in future as if you read what I've posted I actually suggest things could have been done better.
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Where was I cnutish exactly?
I know I wouldn't be stupid enough to release a hail of bullets into an innocent person in that situation. It's not that bold a statement.
 
PS I wasn't trying to be harsh @VeevaVee.

I was just saying things aren't quite what they look like when you're in them.

FWIW I would have dealt with it differently and from experience I can safely say that. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but saying they are brain dead and it's not a high pressure situation is just wrong for me.
 
Grinner said:
Because it's not unusual. I mean confronting the guy with the knife. Once he grabbed the hostage it obviously went south very quickly.
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I’m no cop, but I’d have to argue that any time you’re forced to draw your weapon against an armed suspect is a “high pressure” situation.
 
Carolina Red said:
I’m no cop, but I’d have to argue that any time you’re forced to draw your weapon against an armed suspect is a “high pressure” situation.
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These days it seems to be the standard response. I saw a video of a cop drawing his weapon on a racecar driver yesterday because he thought he was driving badly on the racetrack.
 
Grinner said:
These days it seems to be the standard response. I saw a video of a cop drawing his weapon on a racecar driver yesterday because he thought he was driving badly on the racetrack.
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That statement would vary in truth as to what area/department/community etc. there’s plenty of officers who have never drawn their weapon in their career, and others who have unfortunately had to.

You draw it knowing you may have to use it, but hope you don’t need to.
 
Grinner said:
These days it seems to be the standard response. I saw a video of a cop drawing his weapon on a racecar driver yesterday because he thought he was driving badly on the racetrack.
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Was the race car driver an armed suspect?
I’m no cop, but I’d have to argue that any time you’re forced to draw your weapon against an armed suspect is a “high pressure” situation.
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Skizzo said:
That statement would vary in truth as to what area/department/community etc. there’s plenty of officers who have never drawn their weapon in their career, and others who have unfortunately had to.

You draw it knowing you may have to use it, but hope you don’t need to.
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How many times do you think you've had to draw?
 
Raoul said:
Its a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. The bean bags were clearly not the solution given the chair was blocking his torso, therefore the option was deadly force or allow him to harm others.
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Yea, I've re watched the video a couple times on my way home. I have the luxury of dissecting each moment and second of the video and can look for criticisms like everyone else.
Maybe the beanbag officer could've aimed at the guy's head instead, even though that's prohibited.
Maybe they could've shot him with their guns once he took steps towards them, and risk their careers for excessive force/ unjustified shooting.
Maybe they could've used a taser, though i doubt it would be effective.
Maybe they could've shot him once he walks away from them and towards the woman in that 1-2 second window of opportunity.
Maybe the 2 cover officers don't shoot at all due to the angle. And risk maybe the primary officer not shooting also, and allow the suspect to cut her throat and die due to their inaction.
I can play the should've could've would've game too like everyone else, but watching the video again I just don't see how the officers were 'useless cnuts' or terrible. The outcome was the worst it could be even though for the most part they played it by the book, and I'm sure it'll haunt them for the rest of their lives. I know if I had shot and killed her no matter if it was justified I would walk into the watch commander's office and turn in my gun and badge the same day.
 
Skizzo said:
Around 4 or 5 id say.
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That's quite something that five times you've possibly held somebody's life in your hands. We're all guilty of minimizing the effect shootings have on cops too. Do you have mandatory counselling following a shooting?
 
Grinner said:
That's quite something that five times you've possibly held somebody's life in your hands. We're all guilty of minimizing the effect shootings have on cops too. Do you have mandatory counselling following a shooting?
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It’s also why I remember how many times, as I don’t take it lightly, as I’m sure most don’t.

None of those times did I ever fire a round. And I’ve only been on scene at one shooting, and there was a counseling after. The department is really good in terms of support offered. The benefit of it being the State I suppose.
 
Eboue said:
You don't know how you'd handle such a situation until your in it.
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According to the Enquirer, Cincinnati police policy permits taser use on children as young as 7 years old. It reads: “Officers should avoid using the Taser on obviously pregnant females and those individuals under the age of 7 or over the age of 70 due to the potential for these individuals to fall when incapacitated by a taser, unless the encounter rises to the level of a deadly force situation.”
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What would warrant a 7yo getting tased?
 
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