Fantasy Tournament: World Cup All-Time All-Stars

Cal 1. Pele 2. Sándor Kocsis 3. Gerson 4. Laurent Blanc

I'm going to hunt you down, my sole purpose in this thing will be to kick you out and feast on the flesh of these traitorous bastards.
 
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Pol 1. Maradona 2. P Maldini 3. Breitner
Cal 1. Pele 2. Sándor Kocsis 3. Gerson
Aldo 1. Garrincha 2. Romario 3. Scirea 4. Gentile
Theon 1. Beckenbauer 2. Zico 3. Baggio 4. Kohler
Rpitroda 1. Zidane 2. Masopust 3. Varela 4. Desailly
Paceme 1. Platini 2. Rijkaard 3. Djalma Santos 4. Thuram
Jayvin 1. Ronaldo 2. Cannavaro 3. Rivaldo 4. Brehme
Desert 1.Moore 2. Meazza 3. Passarella 4. Busquets Banquets
Annah 1. Didi 2. Iniesta 3. Ronaldinho 4. Stoichkov
Crappy/Pippa 1. Fontaine 2. Krol 3. Kopa 4. Vogts
Fergus 1. Matthäus 2. Falcao 3. Rivelino 4. Nilton Santos
Balu/NM 1. Cruyff 2. Jairzinho 3. Carlos Alberto 4. Davids
Anto 1. Puskas 2. Neeskens 3. Bozsik 4. Czibor
Gio. 1. Eusebio 2. Figueroa 3. Laudrup 4. Xavi
Cutch 1. Muller 2. Facchetti 3. Cafu 4. Santamaria
TITO 1. Charlton 2. Baresi 3. Zanetti 4. Schnellinger


Brilliant pick, Aldo! Got you down as my early favourite, though I really love Jayvin and Antohans teams so far too for personal reasons!
 
Nah I didn't. Feeling a back five is this draft. Thuram will fit nicely in that, maybe there are better options but since I actually have a decent working knowledge of Thurman so in my head it works.

:eek: I'm green with envy

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I'm going to hunt you down, my sole purpose in this thing will be to kick you out and feast on the flesh of these traitorous bastards.


I pick older players you complain, I pick newer players you still complain... :rolleyes:
 
But using Thuram as CB using his 98 peak isn't the same as playing Cryuff as an AM using 74 WC?
I think there is a difference, yes. Because Cruyff's role really was comparable to an AM, he didn't play as a centerforward, he was all over the pitch creating for others. He just didn't have a striker ahead of him. Centerback and Rightback are simply too complete different positions, imo.

Doesn't matter anyway, because I play Cruyff exactly like he played in 74 to avoid that sort of discussion.

/edit:
Thuram as the right of the three centerbacks in a back 5 is of course something completely different again, I have no problem with that.
 
I pick older players you complain, I pick newer players you still complain... :rolleyes:

In fairness, Kocsis going made it easier to go with the Hungarian team as I couldn't work out who to drop out of Bozsik, Czibor and Kocsis. Reckon Kocsis is the easiest to replace so no biggie.

Out of my entire remaining draft strategy Blanc was the only one I had in red as possibly picked by then (he was my next pick). Would have worked perfectly. Oh well... feck you.
 
There was no way you'd get Blanc with the way the draft was going, imo. Really not the slightest chance.
 
But using Thuram as CB using his 98 peak isn't the same as playing Cryuff as an AM using 74 WC?

I had foreseen this argument here:

I don't want to go into examples or all hell will break loose, but some positions are more "defined" than others. Differentiating between AM/Inside forward/9.5, etc. is a bit of a mugs game. I wouldn't however be so flexible with an inside forward being depicted as a winger if they always played with an actual winger next to them. They didn't play the position, simple. If they did it at some stage in their career at club level I don't really care. I would stick with World Cups, otherwise it is a re-run of the All-Time draft.

I'm pretty sure I know a couple of players you are thinking about and to me their WC position was pretty clear and arguing they would translate that form to another is outside the remit here. Of course, half the people won't give two shits about it, but I certainly will take it into account.

I meant Maldini and Thuram there. Both fullbacks in my book.
 
There was no way you'd get Blanc with the way the draft was going, imo. Really not the slightest chance.

I drew that up in turn 2! He was not as irreplaceable as Bozsik and Czibor so wasn't going to alter it. I'll just get someone else, simples.
 
In fairness, Kocsis going made it easier to go with the Hungarian team as I couldn't work out who to drop out of Bozsik, Czibor and Kocsis. Reckon Kocsis is the easiest to replace so no biggie.

Out of my entire remaining draft strategy Blanc was the only one I had in red as possibly picked by then (he was my next pick). Would have worked perfectly. Oh well... feck you.


I went with Kocsis first cause I thought his 11 goals is easiest to sell come voting time...
 
I had foreseen this argument here:



I meant Maldini and Thuram there. Both fullbacks in my book.

It is not necessary that everyone plays the fullbacks in the same way. Just like Cryuff the argument is that did Thuram show any characteristics as a RB in 98 that would allow him to play equally well as a CB?
 
It is not necessary that everyone plays the fullbacks in the same way. Just like Cryuff the argument is that did Thuram show any characteristics as a RB in 98 that would allow him to play equally well as a CB?

It's very different IMO. What Cruyff was doing in 74 was not far away from playing someone as an AM. It's not characteristics, it's the nature of his performance and how he played overall.

You can see Thuram could be a CB, but his peak performance is not as CB but RB and, in fact, what made him stand out was eminently RB stuff. It's funny because people usually see Thuram as a "defensive" fullback but if I take his 98 performance in isolation that is not the case at all. His outstanding/defining contribution in that World Cup was against Croatia, doing nothing like what a CB would be doing, marauding down the flank and scoring two goals. So no, play him at RB and I'll think 98, play him at CB and it's 06.
 
I went with Kocsis first cause I thought his 11 goals is easiest to sell come voting time...

I know where you are coming from. My dilemma was to me the service that enabled that was more important and I could get someone else to execute... but I couldn't see past the simplicity of "11 goals", which is why I was in two minds until you settled it. Of course, in your case you could argue the service is there: Pelé + Gerson, who was my Bozsik backup. In terms of playmaking I couldn't see past him as my fallback, my concern was defensively, lazy chainsmoking git that he was (he even made ads for his favourite brand and had his face on the packet :lol:).
 
IF I get the team I'm going for and IF I then go through and eventually get the 4 upgrades I would want, then you are all in for a treat. It's fecking awesome, expect me to be a fecking mentalist because I now really want to see this through!!!!
 
IF I get the team I'm going for and IF I then go through and eventually get the 4 upgrades I would want, then you are all in for a treat. It's fecking awesome, expect me to be a fecking mentalist because I now really want to see this through!!!!
How many hours do you actually spend planning your team :lol:, it's truely amazing.
 
How many hours do you actually spend planning your team :lol:, it's truely amazing.

I have played as his assistant and I can tell that he's usually really clear of what he wants from the off, so I won't say it takes the amount of time you might think it would but the fact that he usually has names of all players ready to put forward as well as the straight forward planning which is usually very realistic hence not much time wasted in replanning if the picks get stolen. The fact that he's the best when it comes to convincing everyone about his ideas also helps as he doesn't need the formation to do the talking.
 
Fair enough, after so many draft games, it makes sense, that he's actually very quick with all of it. Still amazing, how he can already think about reinforcements :lol:.
 
Fair enough, after so many draft games, it makes sense, that he's actually very quick with all of it. Still amazing, how he can already think about reinforcements :lol:.

When you set out with a theme like the Magic Magyars (it actually is a "World Cup Underdogs" homage side) you need to have a plan for how it will realistically evolve without losing its identity or sooner or later the bigger names will trounce you.

The good thing is the four reinforcements (with their 3-4 backup options) are scattered across different teams. The bad thing is they all look fecking strong! :lol:
 
IF I get the team I'm going for and IF I then go through and eventually get the 4 upgrades I would want, then you are all in for a treat. It's fecking awesome, expect me to be a fecking mentalist because I now really want to see this through!!!!

Doesn't sound like you at all.
 
How many hours do you actually spend planning your team :lol:, it's truely amazing.

It's 9 columns x 30 rows on an Excel. It's all done and dusted. I find it much easier to navigate drafts knowing what I'm doing and not giving a rats what others do, or trying to prepare to beat any single team.

Doesn't sound like you at all.

Imagine having a very clear vision of your side, now imagine spending weeks waiting for people to make picks, games to be played, etc. The whole purpose of it is to see it crystalise, of course I go mental! It's not about winning, it's about putting the team you wanted together. I don't think I've been anywhere near as bothered losing two finals as I was not getting the chance to make it all come together in the decades draft. In both those finals I hadn't been able to pull it all together (how can you spend an entire draft without coming across a good striker, long live Pol's pools!!!!) so I wasn't hugely bothered, but when there is still reinforcement rounds to go it's fecking cruel!
 
Imagine having a very clear vision of your side, now imagine spending weeks waiting for people to make picks, games to be played, etc. The whole purpose of it is to see it crystalise, of course I go mental! It's not about winning, it's about putting the team you wanted together. I don't think I've been anywhere near as bothered losing two finals as I was not getting the chance to make it all come together in the decades draft. In both those finals I hadn't been able to pull it all together (how can you spend an entire draft without coming across a good striker, long live Pol's pools!!!!) so I wasn't hugely bothered, but when there is still reinforcement rounds to go it's fecking cruel!

I know, I was only kidding. Your enthusiam makes these drafts, it's good entertainment.
 
It is not necessary that everyone plays the fullbacks in the same way. Just like Cryuff the argument is that did Thuram show any characteristics as a RB in 98 that would allow him to play equally well as a CB?

I think you've nailed it there really: it's their role or justifiably close to it. Thuram's defensive solidity at right-back in '98 (except the mistake against Croatia) is what his legend is all about. It's easier to envisage him, almost as a third centre-half at times for France, dropping a few yards into the centre, than the archetypal wing-back whose contribution is primarily in the other half of the pitch (Croatia game again excepted). Even more so in a 3-5-2, the right-sided centre-back role one which Thuram was born to do. I agree with Anto that it'll be difficult to envisage a classic no10 out on the wing, particularly where that is a means of accommodating an even better no10 in the middle. I'd find that a stretch because the qualities required for the roles are very different.
 
Maldini's got some peak 1994 form in the middle under his belt when he covered for Baresi there.


For me if a player physically and technically peaked in one year, but previously showed the tactical awareness of another position - then in my book I will judge that person by his peak physical/technical level in the other position as well.

As it is almost impossible for a player to be a great CB in one world cup then forget how he did it because 4 years passed.

So Thuram for me would be judged by his peak individual attributes of 98 with his tactical knowledge of CB showed in his "lesser" World Cup.
 
Maldini's got some peak 1994 form in the middle under his belt when he covered for Baresi there.

Fair enough. I don't remember that though, just like I largely remember Thuram for his Croatia game! I hadn't been overly impressed with him until then (not that he played badly, just didn't stand out relative to others is what I mean). I think ultimately it will go down to what people remember and their perceptions. Some will bring club form into it, others will stick to World Cup memories, no one is going to go out and research whether someone played somewhere!
 
For me if a player physically and technically peaked in one year, but previously showed the tactical awareness of another position - then in my book I will judge that person by his peak physical/technical level in the other position as well.

As it is almost impossible for a player to be a great CB in one world cup then forget how he did it because 4 years passed.

So Thuram for me would be judged by his peak individual attributes of 98 with his tactical knowledge of CB showed in his "lesser" World Cup.

I really don't understand why something so simple has been made so complicated. Peak performance, in what position? Play him there, simple. Play him anywhere else and peak performance goes out of the window. Otherwise you could argue Matthaus was up there with the best defenders of all time as he played in defence and if you bring his 1990 attributes into it + his later tactical/defensive awareness he would be something else. Or that Messi's lesser WCs would set the world alight if he had actually displayed his peak attributes.

Why? Seriously, why does assuming stuff come into it? If you don't want Thuram as a RB then you pick another RB, simple.
 
Thuram was an outstanding CB, it just seems a shame that we'll not see him in this draft in the position we remember his world cup exploits so fondly for

Which is exactly the point of a World Cup themed draft!
 
What formation do you guys think i should be working towards? Have a few options here with those fullbacks

It really depends on what you would want (and could get) in between defence and Muller. You do look well set for five at the back if you want to go that way, but could do four. I'd look into the midfield, since you will need it either way, and then make up my mind on whether to get wingers or not and thus 1 or 2 CBs.
 
I agree that we have to be faithful to World Cup performances. That said, there will inevitably be some grey area as we lift players out of the systems which made them play well into a set-up of our own making. We just have to accept a wee bit of variation as long as it's in the spirit of the draft.