The whole preseason has been appaling and worring.
Manchester United v Sevilla FC - Rio's Testimonial
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
The whole preseason has been appaling and worring.
So, just joining the party. I'm guessing we're still going with the line of nothing we see before the Swansea game matters one bit right? Or are people allowed to be concerned with us actually not looking that good so far in pre-season, with the real thing a week away?
Should've got him to play with Anton at the back for 20 minutes. That would've been nice. Very nice.
Was the big surprise Rio was going on about the 3-1 loss and shite performance?
Against a team that played a Europa League game in Ukraine the day before.
They will say that, knowing full well that if Chelsea, Liverpool, or City had a shit pre-season they would be saying 'Im not worried about them at all'.
I actually think you guys have some worries right now, but I do also think that if those worries prove to be founded somewhat people on here will lose the plot far too quickly. Right now I can see it being a self fulfilling prophecy.
To quote Gothmog.
Fear; this place is rank with it.
The preseason hasnt really bothered me too much. The Asian sides we played are right in the middle of their seasons so are match fit. Our players had only been together for a couple of weeks. The conditions encountered in Asia didnt help the players just beginning the season and the locals were used to the conditions. During the preseason we got to see some new players who I thought looked good. We also got to see some other players get more game time which they didnt get last season which can only be a positive, Anderson for example.
On one hand we head to Asia etc to generate income which is good for the club but in terms of the team getting up to speed I do wonder if a more local set of games throughout Europe would be more beneficail in that respect.
The transfer market is always going to be difficult. I read that Thiago said we didnt even attempt to sign him yet there was a monstrous thread full of angst and madness based on what?, assumption and speculation. This then gets added in to the transfer failures argument even though ultimately it sounded to me like we didnt even go for him.
Im expecting a tough start to the season and overall a difficult season simply because we have a new manager and anyone with half a brain can see its going to take time for Moyes to get his methods and ideas instilled in the team.
The Rooney situation which isnt Moyes doing is also making things tough.
This is the season where we find out who the true fans are. Lots of toys will be thrown out of the sandpit this season.
On one hand we head to Asia etc to generate income which is good for the club but in terms of the team getting up to speed I do wonder if a more local set of games throughout Europe would be more beneficail in that respect.
The transfer market is always going to be difficult. I read that Thiago said we didnt even attempt to sign him yet there was a monstrous thread full of angst and madness based on what?, assumption and speculation. This then gets added in to the transfer failures argument even though ultimately it sounded to me like we didnt even go for him.
Im expecting a tough start to the season and overall a difficult season simply because we have a new manager and anyone with half a brain can see its going to take time for Moyes to get his methods and ideas instilled in the team.
The Rooney situation which isnt Moyes doing is also making things tough.
This is the season where we find out who the true fans are. Lots of toys will be thrown out of the sandpit this season.
Here is where the problem lies. In my opinion its likely United will struggle to win the league this season and possibly for a little while whilst they adjust, and this is a club with fans of whom anyone under the age of 34 have no idea what its like to not have SAF and not be winning things constantly. As much as posters bleat about how they will give time to Moyes and post tongue in cheek 'Moyes outs' I think they will be the first to be on his back.
What does stuff like this actually mean though? Does anybody actually expect anyone to actually stop supporting Manchester United if we don't win the league?
Or are the 'true fans' those who speak positively about the team playing crap, while the fake fans are those who speak negatively about bad performances/results?
BT put some kind of thing on my line so that I couldn't get another provider's service without them removing it. Maybe they've stopped doing that now.
Titter ye not but there are those who will switch allegiances depending upon which the way the wind is blowing. I suppose a true fan is one who sticks by his team through thick and thin. Saying negative things doesn't mean you've forfeited the right to be called a fan. If that were the case, I'd have lost my fan status in 1974.
Moyes is still getting to know the players and the players are still getting used to his tactical and conditioning methods. Like Stack said, it'll take time for Moyes to ''install'' his ideas into the team so we should be patient. The annoying thing is our insane program for the first five games that could leave us trailing early on, which would not be perfect by any means.
We should only focus on the next game at this moment in time, instead of panicking about the fixtures against Chelsea, City and Liverpool. In a perfect world, we'd have a couple of signigs (a midfielder included) before we face Chelsea two weeks from now, and we're more than capable of dominating Swansea City and Wigan even with this midfield. Maybe we were dominated in midfield by many teams last year, but we still won the league, no matter how inconsistent our rivals were. The midfield is still not good enough but it's not exactly useless either.
No doubt tonight's loss was annoying, mostly because it really wasn't anything close to a testimonial so Rio has the right to feel slightly let down. It still doesn't mean anything though. After all, we had Henriquez lead the line, playing only his second game for the club and behind him was Kagawa, who's really not in a physicall condition, justifying a starting place at the moment. I'm sure he'll sort it out in the coming weeks, as he's obviously quite good.
Adnan was really great, especially in the second half. There were times when he really was taking the piss, so that's obviously extremely promising. I'm sure Moyes will give him a proper chance this season, let's hope Woody sorts out his contract. If another ''Pogba'' happens with him, I'd go fecking mental.
Valencia was sub-par, but did well to get that goal, even though Adnan did most of the work for it. Still seems to lack confidence to beat his man, but it's his first game under Moyes and is obviously still distracted by the tragic death of Chucho Benitez. I can't imagine playing in a competitive game so soon after one of my best mates has died, so fair play to him really.
If I have to make a prediction, I'd say that he'd be better this season but still we won't see the ''old'' Valencia that was tearing apart opposition defenses.
The defense was a shambles, but only Rio was a first team regular from the back four, so not really concerning. Fabio is not yet ready for a starting place. Butthead can't defend to save his life and his positioning is quite pathetic. Simply not good enough for United and it's not really groundless knee-jerk reaction, is it. Smalling is not ready for the new season yet, he's severely lacking match fitness (FM style).
All in all, not the night all of us expected but I'm really looking forward to the game against Wigan. Win the game and then sign a midfielder and I'd be even more confident going into the new season than I was after we signed Van Persie last year. We still have time to get the reinforcements, even though it's getting a bit annoying as it's August 10th already.
We should only focus on the next game at this moment in time, instead of panicking about the fixtures against Chelsea, City and Liverpool. In a perfect world, we'd have a couple of signigs (a midfielder included) before we face Chelsea two weeks from now, and we're more than capable of dominating Swansea City and Wigan even with this midfield. Maybe we were dominated in midfield by many teams last year, but we still won the league, no matter how inconsistent our rivals were. The midfield is still not good enough but it's not exactly useless either.
No doubt tonight's loss was annoying, mostly because it really wasn't anything close to a testimonial so Rio has the right to feel slightly let down. It still doesn't mean anything though. After all, we had Henriquez lead the line, playing only his second game for the club and behind him was Kagawa, who's really not in a physicall condition, justifying a starting place at the moment. I'm sure he'll sort it out in the coming weeks, as he's obviously quite good.
Adnan was really great, especially in the second half. There were times when he really was taking the piss, so that's obviously extremely promising. I'm sure Moyes will give him a proper chance this season, let's hope Woody sorts out his contract. If another ''Pogba'' happens with him, I'd go fecking mental.
Valencia was sub-par, but did well to get that goal, even though Adnan did most of the work for it. Still seems to lack confidence to beat his man, but it's his first game under Moyes and is obviously still distracted by the tragic death of Chucho Benitez. I can't imagine playing in a competitive game so soon after one of my best mates has died, so fair play to him really.
If I have to make a prediction, I'd say that he'd be better this season but still we won't see the ''old'' Valencia that was tearing apart opposition defenses.
The defense was a shambles, but only Rio was a first team regular from the back four, so not really concerning. Fabio is not yet ready for a starting place. Butthead can't defend to save his life and his positioning is quite pathetic. Simply not good enough for United and it's not really groundless knee-jerk reaction, is it. Smalling is not ready for the new season yet, he's severely lacking match fitness (FM style).
All in all, not the night all of us expected but I'm really looking forward to the game against Wigan. Win the game and then sign a midfielder and I'd be even more confident going into the new season than I was after we signed Van Persie last year. We still have time to get the reinforcements, even though it's getting a bit annoying as it's August 10th already.
Precisely. And the twenty-five years that followed, good, bad, awful, yet sometimes superb.
This 'you can't criticise United and be a true fan like me' that infests the board is a load of shite.
Unfortunately some of the mods are actually the worst for it, and their opinions aren't going to change, so we're fecked, shame though it is.
Podgorica is in Montenegro.
I just saw highlights of the goals. That is some of the worst defending I've ever seen. Smalling looked clueless (granted, I'm only basing that on highlights, but still.)
There's nowt wrong with criticism, as long it is justified and appropriately aimed. Moyes, and the team, need to be given some time though. This is an important time for the club, a time that we knew wouldn't be easy, and ripping into the players and Moyes for losing a meaningless kickaround isn't really necessary. Also, too many have thrown the toys out of the pram, to increasingly hysterical levels, over our lack of transfer dealings.
Let's wait til the summer is over before fully judging our transfer dealings, and wait til he's settled in before judging Moyes. I don't think that's too much to expect from our supporters.
Let's wait til the summer is over before fully judging our transfer dealings, and wait til he's settled in before judging Moyes. I don't think that's too much to expect from our supporters.
great post.
If people are throwing the toys out the pram over a testimonial what will happen if we fail to beat swansea and chelsea in our first two league games
That's a good post Nev and starts off with a statement no one could disagree with, but also a clever post in that it works in yet again that criticism is 'ripping in and hysterical'. Can't it be just criticsm? I really wonder if some of the internet fans here actually talk to other fans in real life, where the good and bad is talked about honestly as routine.
You're right about our club's transition, transfers, and Moyes of course, but statements of the bleeding obvious usually are.
Not at all. I've seen some very fair criticism on here over the last few weeks/month. I'm not even Moyes biggest fan myself, and said long before Fergie retired that Moyes wouldn't be the route i'd go down. I've also seen some ridiculous, overly dramatic bollocks as well. Criticism is one thing, some of the stuff posted over recent days has been pretty pathetic. Read the post again, I clearly differentiated between reasoned criticism and the hysterical, slate the club for everything before it's even happened type of shite that we've seen far too much of lately.
Was the stating the bleeding obvious dig really necessary? Yeah, what I said was bloody obvious, so obvious that you'd think more of our fans would fecking see it.
I take your first point Nev, as I suppose if I'd spent more time in these threads I might agree. The 'dig' though, yeah, it was a dig at the top reddism you felt you had to add in, and that was my point, you didn't have to at all. Anyway, sorry to disappear, but work tomorrow and all that, night night.
The refs were from Ukraine. That's what I was looking at :/
I'm far from a "Top Red", not that I particularly see that it's a bad thing.
What I said wasn't top reddism, it was realism. Too many are judging this transfer window before it has ended, and Moyes before the season has started. What's the point? Why not just wait and see? If the criticisms are still valid then they can fire away, and they'll meet with plenty of agreement. If they aren't then they've saved themselves from looking like silly kneejerking dickheads. Win-win as far as I can see.
Great post.
You've got to remember that from the midfield up we've not been able to use a lot of players and that hasn't been Moyes fault. Nani Valencia, kagawa and young, our most senior players responsible for creativity, not forgetting Rooney have all been injured or unavailable cause of international fixtures. So they've not had time to get their sharpness nor moyes had time to actually integrate the players into a way of playing that he is happy with. That's the biggest factor atm and you can't blame moyes for that.
It is slightly concerning because with one game left before the season starts we haven't seen the likely first team and know that a lot of players namely the ones above and Rooney, Hernandez even rvp are lacking sharpness and we have a tough start with a new manager. But that's where we've got to be patient, it'll take a few months once everyone is fit to properly gel imo, in that time we'll have to say how well moyes can grind out results.
It is slightly concerning because with one game left before the season starts we haven't seen the likely first team and know that a lot of players namely the ones above and Rooney, Hernandez even rvp are lacking sharpness and we have a tough start with a new manager. But that's where we've got to be patient, it'll take a few months once everyone is fit to properly gel imo, in that time we'll have to say how well moyes can grind out results.
Was there, the game was pretty shit, Januzaj looked good, Anderson looked decent, defence looked shit and the best bit was the crowd applauding Rio off with about 8 minutes left.
Moyes is starting to worry me. Seems like we can't buy a win this preseason. Don't ever recall having such a shitty preseason.
Give him time, it'll come.
He's been appointed for a reason, stability breeds success. He's not a Mourinho, a hired gun who'll bring instant success before moving onto the next highest bidder. I can understand concern, there's a certain level expected from Manchester United fans, even in preseason. I'm not one of these top reds questioning every little concern raised by fans, there's reasoning behind the concern, our poorest preseason in years and a non active transfer window, just give him time.
Will definitely give him time but I was never in favour of having him manage us. He has achieved nothing noteworthy with Everton imo, but we won't derail this thread. My biggest worry is that this team is FAR from being ready for the season. I can see us easily dropping points away to Swansea and Chelsea right off the bat.
I'd say the community shield matters. Not from the viewpoint of it being an important trophy but it is the curtain raider for the season and it is considered a worthwhile game of football which most people tend to watch. It's moyes' first real game fo me.
Stack wtf this is probably the best post I've seen for ages and I flick over to another thread and you are saying formations don't lose games? How can you go from such an intelligent view to that? I don't get that! Anyhow above post is different class and couldn't agree more. Apart from City none of the top four have found it easy to recruit players this year. It looks like we've bid for Baines and Fabregas and if that's the quality we are aiming at we should be quite happy as that has been our two areas we have needed strengthened also.
Well that was an anti climax, feel for Rio and his family, where were the surprises that Rio said would happen. It was obvious that this is not what he had in mind. Couldn't care less about the scoreline, this was about Rio and his years of loyalty and great service to United, instead it will go down as just another pre friendly.
I agree. It was meant to be his big day. I have no doubt the players got a proper dressing down at HT Moyes had a face like thunder. This should have been they way Rio wanted it. It's a shame because he looked really disappointed.
You see, I'm just not personally of the view that pre-season form/results are as irrelevant as everyone else thinks. Frankly, our consistent losing (or drawing) against sub-standard opposition worries me. The real season is around the corner, surely the idea is to build up form to be ready for that? If we are unable to defend up until a week before the season - then naturally, I am afraid that we will be defensively poor against a good Swansea side, who have also 'started their season already', so if that is the valid excuse for Chinese teams, then we should expect the same here.
Another reason why I am not dismissing it all as 'just meaningless pre-season', is the fact that we have a new manager under the spotlight. My view is that more than any other pre-season, the manager definitely wants to win these games, especially last night's one on home soil under the first real British glare. I think we have actually valued the winning of games higher than some believe, and have just been unable to.
I don't think I am an overly pessimistic supporter in general, but I can't really say that anything that has happened since the final whistle against West Brom has filled me with great confidence going into the season. In fact, this summer has been a cause for concern, and for once, I can't really blame the bookies for looking away from us, usually I do.
Some positives for you lot of course but this was undoubtedly going to be a time of transition
Thanks dude, I know Olly Murs, just didn't even think that "Ollyofficial" was him though
You know Nev, with your voice of reason you do make it easier for me to just step back. I haven't got involved in any of these stupid debates because like you say, it's pointless judging Moyes before the season even begins.
I mean yesterday we played without a striker in the second half and without a star striker in the first. I'm not worried at this stage, I'm actually really excited with how things have gone on in pre season. Okay fair enough we would have liked to have seen us go and smash 5 goals in every match and win comfortably but getting the fitness levels up is the most important factor for me. You just have to look past the results and see what's in front of you, there's a freshness about our team this year and Anderson is the evidence of that.
Although I hope Buttner never gets near a first team line up again, I think he's so awful. He's good enough going forward for a full back but he's not good defending, neither would he be good enough going forward as a winger, so he should just go.
I'm sure it's been discussed here, but why on fecking earth are we playing in a testimonial two days before a competitive match?
Yes, the Charity Shield isn't the most competitive match on the planet, but it's a piece of a hardware that still means something. And what's the point of a testimonial now, anyway? It used to be a match to fatten up the kitty of a veteran player who didn't earn very much in their career. Okay, now it's a charity fundraiser but it seems a useless one. The players could all chip in together and donate 1m or whatever to a local charity. It's a joke of a match and there's always the risk of a freak injury...for what?
Yes, the Charity Shield isn't the most competitive match on the planet, but it's a piece of a hardware that still means something. And what's the point of a testimonial now, anyway? It used to be a match to fatten up the kitty of a veteran player who didn't earn very much in their career. Okay, now it's a charity fundraiser but it seems a useless one. The players could all chip in together and donate 1m or whatever to a local charity. It's a joke of a match and there's always the risk of a freak injury...for what?
I mentioned yesterday and someone said both Gary Neville and Paul Scholes matches were around important games. I just don't think Moyes should have made it a competitive match, the others weren't. It was the blandest game I have seen and no fun at all. If Moyes wanted to use it to have a look at the rest of his squad, well he has just given himself one hell of a massive headache. All it did was make him realise that his squad isn't as good or deep as he thought it was. Is he now going to drop poor Rio for playing badly in his own bloody testimonial?