Mesut Özil

i'm more of a fan of vital statistics than stats. ozil doesn't really match up on those either.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I just google "Players name" and "stats" and see what turns up. Usually it's an ESPN stats site.

Bound to be some of this new breed of stats-obsessed caftards who can point you to somewhere a bit more reliable.
Click to expand...

Ah ok thanks, I've never really had anywhere devoted to it, and I always end up doing what you advised.. :)
 
alastair said:
when you're greeted with post after post of hysteria, it's difficult not to be.
Click to expand...

Welcome to football fandom in the early 21st century. It isn't just Ozil who gets this though, it's just about every big name player going. You just notice it more when it's one of your favourites who is targeted.

Put in a good performance in a high profile televised match, you're the best thing since sliced bread. Put in a poor to average performance in a high profile televised match, and you're an overrated, overpriced bum.

Massive amount of knee jerkism about these days.

I mean, you might want to have a look at the Wayne Rooney thread after Saturday's game against WBA. Scored one, created another, was generally solid all afternoon: he got absolute pelters from some United fans, because apparently that still wasn't good enough.

There was then a column in the Mail saying both his England place and his United place were under threat . . . from Adam Lallana.

It's just crazy, quite frankly.
 
Last edited:
Pogue Mahone said:
Well that's just lazy.
Click to expand...
That's just plain wrong. Opta Stat suggested that the efforts made by Alastair to answer certain posts from his iPhone amounted to him burning 342kcal, which is way above the average poster. Also, WhoScored tracking device recorded that the distance he had to cover to get from his iPhone to his laptop was a wopping 3.24km, which may seem like a little distance, but when compared to the same distance by other posters (peterstorey: 2.14km; Grinner:0.125km) really shows how much effort he puts into this thread.

Hang your head in shame.
 
Jaybezia said:
Would you say that tends to be one of the better ones?

EDIT: For example, I don't think it cover's "ground covered"..
Click to expand...

None of these stats sites are as comprehensive as they could be - I think mainly because the companies they get their data from are selling most of it to professional clubs, and so they aren't going to just give it away for free. Hence all you really get is the basics.
 
Can't really blame him for not performing well last night. He's not exactly been great in the big games this season though so can see why the papers are out in force. 42 million, you would expect more.
 
Jaybezia said:
Would you say that tends to be one of the better ones?

EDIT: For example, I don't think it cover's "ground covered"..
Click to expand...

I think it's one of the best, yeah. Not sure what "ground covered" stat is exactly, but there's a lot of info for the team, or the player.

InonukW.png
 
as usual the media are over the top

Ozil is still a class act though and I think we will see the best of him in time - i don't think like Berbatov its an issue with the pace of our play or style

I think it's more a case of form
 
KM said:
Ashton is a twat. Chelsea loving shit, some of his articles on AVB were a disgrace.
Click to expand...

Yep. And some of his articles written during this summers Rooney saga were a joke as well. I was quite glad AVB called him out even if it was futile in the end. Wenger has had some tense moments with him were he's clearly not happy with the tripe he's been printing.

Isotope said:
Messi and Ronaldo are often the 'laziest' player on the pitch. Impact on team performance is more important than run a lot, obviously. But if the player appears lazy, and with below par impact, he should be dumped to Fulham.
Click to expand...

You could certainly use this argument against Ronaldo but Messi has been arguably the hardest working forward for a few years certainly was under Pep although he seems to have totally abandoned it this season, maybe due to injury or fatigue.
 
Don't think Wenger did him any favours towards the end of the year.

Ozil was often subbed off by Mourinho once he'd done his work, he often plays the full 90 for Arsenal and you can tell he's feeling it.

Obviously an elite player should be able to cope better, but a manager needs to handle his talents in the best way possible. It's why many people here have issues with Moyes and his impact on Carrick and RVP this season, playing them with injuries etc.

Calling him a flop is ridiculous but the honeymoon period is over and after all the hype Ozil has nowhere to hide unless Wenger helps him.
 
antihenry said:
I never understood why they signed him in the first place, let alone fr that kind of money. Attacking midfield is one area Arsenal didn't need to upgrade and has a great depth in.

They could have spent less and brought in someone like Higuain instead.
Click to expand...

Why did you sign Willian, Schurrle and Salah instead of a striker.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
That's just plain wrong. Opta Stat suggested that the efforts made by Alastair to answer certain posts from his iPhone amounted to him burning 342kcal, which is way above the average poster. Also, WhoScored tracking device recorded that the distance he had to cover to get from his iPhone to his laptop was a wopping 3.24km, which may seem like a little distance, but when compared to the same distance by other posters (peterstorey: 2.14km; Grinner:0.125km) really shows how much effort he puts into this thread.

Hang your head in shame.
Click to expand...

:lol:
 
ISSYNAZAR said:
Don't think Wenger did him any favours towards the end of the year.

Ozil was often subbed off by Mourinho once he'd done his work, he often plays the full 90 for Arsenal and you can tell he's feeling it.

Obviously an elite player should be able to cope better, but a manager needs to handle his talents in the best way possible. It's why many people here have issues with Moyes and his impact on Carrick and RVP this season, playing them with injuries etc.

Calling him a flop is ridiculous but the honeymoon period is over and after all the hype Ozil has nowhere to hide unless Wenger helps him.
Click to expand...
It's a fair point. Obviously, as with Toure and Anderson, I don't buy this excuse that they're such explosive runners that they only do it in short bursts, but I definitely think he wasn't prepared for the physicality of the PL, though I think the idea of how poor his performances have been has been totally overplayed. But he needs to adapt and get fitter and stronger, because the entire league's not going to come back and meet him. If he does that he can be one of the best in the league/world on a consistent basis.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Are you calling the idea that he's lazy a myth because of those distance stats from the first leg against Bayern?
Click to expand...

Same thing we've had when Berbatov or Carrick were accused of being lazy or not running around enough. Some champions league stats that showed they covered distance.
 
ISSYNAZAR said:
Don't think Wenger did him any favours towards the end of the year.

Ozil was often subbed off by Mourinho once he'd done his work, he often plays the full 90 for Arsenal and you can tell he's feeling it.

Obviously an elite player should be able to cope better, but a manager needs to handle his talents in the best way possible. It's why many people here have issues with Moyes and his impact on Carrick and RVP this season, playing them with injuries etc.

Calling him a flop is ridiculous but the honeymoon period is over and after all the hype Ozil has nowhere to hide unless Wenger helps him.
Click to expand...

Mourinho often takes off his number tens to close down the game. I don't think it's indicative of amything.
 
Archie Leach said:
Oh man, Pogue, thats a whole bunch'a paragraphs.

I actually agree with you that "ground covered" isn't a definitive measure of effort but also disagree with you that Ozil is lazy, at least in the conventional sense.
Click to expand...

You only need to read one of them!

Re white text, I haven't watched Arsenal enough this season to have a strong opinion on how hard Ozil works. I thought he definitely didn't do enough to help out his full-back in the first leg against Bayern, though, and I don't think the distance covered stats - in the context of that particular fixture - provide a convincing case to the contrary.

If he's consistently covering more distance than all but two or three of his team-mates then yeah, it does look as though he's probably putting in more effort than he's given credit for (with all the caveats about jogs vs sprints etc.)
 
I believe he puts in the miles and runs his heart out, but he isn't a grand spirit warrior like Stevie Gerrard, he won't be lunging into tackles, front flipping into a set piece situation, streaming forward with his heart on his sleeve and his kidney hanging precariously from his trousers. He's a brilliant technician who is a bit lost right now, but who is putting in the miles. And yeah there's his transfer fees, but there's a few of our cheaper players not pulling their weight and at the end of the day, a football team isn't a measure of their transfer fees. I don't care if Arteta only cost 10m, if he's putting in less than is owed than that's a problem.
 
I've always been of the opinion that the transfer fee shouldn't be one of the criteria by which a player is judged. Although it definitely explains why the media are so quick to get on his case. It helps with the narrative.
 
Was he that much poorer than most of the other Arsenal players in the first half last night?

I mean I think he's ridiculously overated, but from the criticism he's been given in the last few weeks, you'd think he's the only player on earth who finds it more difficult to play against tougher sides, is moody, or who suffers a loss of form and confidence. There's probably about 3 footballers on earth who aren't like this.

Oxlade Chamberlain was the only Arsenal player who really stood out, and he definitely DID tire a long time before he should have. He looked more or less dead on his feet after only an hour.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I've always been of the opinion that the transfer fee shouldn't be one of the criteria by which a player is judged. Although it definitely explains why the media are so quick to get on his case. It helps with the narrative.
Click to expand...
A former player, Ade Akinbiyi maybe, said on Sky once that the most unfair thing about the criticism he got was he was being compared to other players who cost roughly the same fee. I think the example he gave was Eidur Gudjohnsen going to Chelsea. His argument was basically "I never claimed to be as good a player as him. I didn't set the fee, yet I'm mocked relentlessly for it". Which is entirely fair.
 
sullydnl said:
Why did we sign Mata when we desperately needed strengthening in other areas? If a top class player is available and you need a big lift it can be very tempting...

Anyway, for all his flaws Ozil is still one of the main reason they're challenging for the title and in a cup final. Hardly a bad buy and with way, way more still to come.

If Arsenal get a top striker and a more balanced team then we'll see Ozil flourish. I suspect he'll be a bit like DDG though in that he'll still get criticism even after he's clearly improved.
Click to expand...

True, I think as well people underestimate how hard it can be to adapt into this league. People in this thread and the media have gone well over the top with him, for the media they have become quite obsessed. That Daily Mail article was up before the match had even finished. Ridiculous how quickly people will jump to conclusions about a player.

Also like Balu said Ozil is quite a specialised player, he needs certain type of players around him and then you'll get the best out of him and also them. I think being without Ramsay & Theo for large parts of this season hasn't helped, he keeps things ticking over very well but there is nobody really making runs in behind which is what he specialises in. Our movement is simply diabolical off the ball when you take Ozil, Rosicky, Theo & Ramsay out of the equation.
 
JazzG said:
True, I think as well people underestimate how hard it can be to adapt into this league. People in this thread and the media have gone well over the top with him, for the media they have become quite obsessed. That Daily Mail article was up before the match had even finished. Ridiculous how quickly people will jump to conclusions about a player.

Also like Balu said Ozil is quite a specialised player, he needs certain type of players around him and then you'll get the best out of him and also them. I think being without Ramsay & Theo for large parts of this season hasn't helped, he keeps things ticking over very well but there is nobody really making runs in behind which is what he specialises in. Our movement is simply diabolical off the ball when you take Ozil, Rosicky, Theo & Ramsay out of the equation.
Click to expand...

When you take four of our best players out of the equation, it's going to be tough.

We're amazing for a side that has so many out all the time. Look at how completely ineffective City were tonight without Aguero.
 
He probably has one bug eye on the world cup already, saving himself. He'll be better next season, Arsenal would hope, some specialist conditioning training wouldn't go amiss.
 
alastair said:
When you take four of our best players out of the equation, it's going to be tough.

We're amazing for a side that has so many out all the time. Look at how completely ineffective City were tonight without Aguero.
Click to expand...

Of course but there are a few players in our team who's movement off the ball is quite poor and I think we need to look at more mobile and quicker players.

We've done unbelievably well with the injuries we have, I reckon with Ramsay and Theo we'd be top right now but without that clinical striker we were always gonna struggle to pull away at the top.

KiD MoYeS said:
He probably has one bug eye on the world cup already, saving himself. He'll be better next season, Arsenal would hope, some specialist conditioning training wouldn't go amiss.
Click to expand...

After a world cup is always harder as those players come back later but his pre-season will be more suited to this league than La Liga.
 
The loss of Ramsey's form of early season has been so hugely damaging.

I would love him to inspire us to the FA Cup because he deserves it more than anyone.
 
JazzG said:
True, I think as well people underestimate how hard it can be to adapt into this league. People in this thread and the media have gone well over the top with him, for the media they have become quite obsessed. That Daily Mail article was up before the match had even finished. Ridiculous how quickly people will jump to conclusions about a player.

Also like Balu said Ozil is quite a specialised player, he needs certain type of players around him and then you'll get the best out of him and also them. I think being without Ramsay & Theo for large parts of this season hasn't helped, he keeps things ticking over very well but there is nobody really making runs in behind which is what he specialises in. Our movement is simply diabolical off the ball when you take Ozil, Rosicky, Theo & Ramsay out of the equation.
Click to expand...

I think that's definitely the key thing. He's spent the last few years with Ronaldo, who's probably the best in the world at making those runs. It's entirely understandable that he's finding the move difficult, especially since Walcott's been injured and he's not given the opportunity to play to his strengths.

From here on in it's just a case of either him adapting to a new style, which he's certainly good enough to do, or Wenger being allowed to spend what it takes to get in the kind of players who can bring out the best in him. Ultimately I think the latter would be better for the club.
 
alastair said:
The loss of Ramsey's form of early season has been so hugely damaging.

I would love him to inspire us to the FA Cup because he deserves it more than anyone.
Click to expand...
It actually would be nice, some of the media scrutiny has become laughable... Then again it is largely the comic level papers...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.