Neymar

[Cina]

Of course Villa was a success, he was an important part of their three years of dominance.

 

[Raees]

Made this quickly. Neymar had a very good tournament, though before the Spain game he didn't have the "excellent" tournament that some thought. His best game is a tough one between Mexico or Spain.

I think if you watch compilations of most top players in the modern game and look closely at their international exploits, they struggle alot on the international stage. Spain apart, most 'individuals' get marked out of games easily and rarely dominate for their nation. Taking that into account and the pressure that Neymar must have been under... for the greatest footballing nation at home and against one of the best sides in history, it's pretty extraordinary what he achieved and the quality of his goals through out were of a really high standard.. magical goals. His ceiling as a player is exceptionally high, really does depend on how much he dedicates to the game and how much he wants to go down as a legend.

 

[Red Shorts]

When was the last time Barca spent big money on a player and he was successful?

I wish Neymar joins a long and illustrious list of compatriots who failed at Barca.

Let's see now, shall we say players over £30 million as big for now? Over the last 4 years:

Neymar (£48 million) Undecided
Sanchez (£30 million) Would be considered a flop so far
Fabregas (£30 million) Fantastic start, his performances have largely dipped from then
Ibrahimovic (£56 million) Couldn't work it out being in the shadow of Messi, surely their biggest flop
David Villa (£34 million) Hugely popular with the fans, was successful until that leg break, never the same player

Before that they hardly made a big signing for quite a few years, hardly touched the £20 million mark. I would say only Villa was successful out of these players, with the others nowhere near living up to their price tags (Maybe Fabregas was close).

 

[kouroux]

Zlatan wasn't that bad, it was just incredibly stupid to swap him with Eto'o, Hleb (even if refused) and some cash. His numbers were alright despite not clearly fitting in that system. Sanchez and even Fabregas have been far worse for me so far.

 

[Red Shorts]

For £56 million though? I know it's hard to justify a price tag that large, but I would be a little hacked if I was them even if they paid a price of £30 million and he played like he did. 2 Big personalities like Zlatan and Messi were never going to work anyway.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I think Ibra was having a good season, its unfair to label him a flop.

The fact is though he was a square peg in a round hole - it just was not going to work.

 

[kouroux]

For £56 million though? I know it's hard to justify a price tag that large, but I would be a little hacked if I was them even if they paid a price of £30 million and he played like he did. 2 Big personalities like Zlatan and Messi were never going to work anyway.

I'd say someone is a true flop when the reasons of his failure are mostly due to himself. He cost a lot of money but not really his fault if Barca were that clueless or adamant in getting rid of Eto'o.

 

[Red Shorts]

I think Ibra was having a good season, its unfair to label him a flop.

The fact is though he was a square peg in a round hole - it just was not going to work.

I'd say someone is a true flop when the reasons of his failure are mostly due to himself. He cost a lot of money but not really his fault if Barca were that clueless or adamant in getting rid of Eto'o.

Yeah good points, but would you say it's the same case for Berbatov, who many labelled a flop? He was clearly a talented player, had a top goalscoring season, but before that could be largely ineffective for us. His style of play also largely unsuited us too.

 

[kouroux]

Yes indeed many have called Berbatov a flop but when I look at things and how he's contributed, I always kinda disagree. I mean there are reasons to call him so but I just don't agree with all of them.

 

[Adam-Utd]

The fact Berba never really stood up in the big games, especially in Europe was why he was labelled a flop.

Ok the hattrick against Liverpool was his crowning moment, but he did not produce enough of those types of displays through his time with us.

If I remember correctly, he never scored a goal for us in the CL?. For a £30m striker that is simply pathetic really.

True though in the league he was decent. Shame really as I love his style as a player.

 

[Brwned]

Berbatov scored 5 goals in 14 CL starts. 4 goals in 5 starts in his first season but then only started one CL game in the following season.

 

[JazzG]

I'd say someone is a true flop when the reasons of his failure are mostly due to himself. .

Surely you could say the likes of Fabregas & Sanchez also fall into that category? Barca play a very unique way and coming from the outside in to their squad it seems quite difficult to adapt to that.

 

[kouroux]

Surely you could say the likes of Fabregas & Sanchez also fall into that category? Barca play a very unique way and coming from the outside in to their squad it seems quite difficult to adapt to that.

Tbh you could .

 

[NoLogo]

He was neither a flop nor a massive success. He did okay imo but we would have probably hoped for him doing better than that so I can see why in the eyes of some people he could be labeled as a flop.

It also didn't help him that he always looks a bit lethargic on the field while a lot of our fans value players who come across as more aggressive and determined on the field.

 

[Cheesy]

I think Ibra was having a good season, its unfair to label him a flop.

The fact is though he was a square peg in a round hole - it just was not going to work.

I think he would have probably been more of a success if they'd kept him through the middle, but the problem was that once Messi was eventually put there, he was just too good to move away, meaning if Ibrahimovic stayed he would have just been stuck out on the wing. I imagine one of the main reasons he was brought in was because Barca felt they needed a big man to give their team more height and power. Eventually though, they realised they were good enough to continue passing their way to victory and didn't need a player of a different style.

 

[Cheesy]

Surely you could say the likes of Fabregas & Sanchez also fall into that category? Barca play a very unique way and coming from the outside in to their squad it seems quite difficult to adapt to that.

Fabregas is a player who was bred at Barcelona for the start of his footballing life though and fits into their system perfectly. If he has any problems there then it's that he just happens to be in a midfield full of world class player where it isn't easy for him to maintain a place in central midfield. It's certainly not the tiki-taka style that's the problem for him in my opinion.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Yep, exactly that really. Once Messi decided he wanted to be a central striker it was lights out for Ibra.

Shame really as the guy definitely has the class to be a success there, but he just did not fit Barca's style.

He was a Maverick who wanted the show to be about him, rather than be a puppet to Messi's dominance.

Its all a bit like how Villa has suffered too.

 

[Cheesy]

Yep, exactly that really. Once Messi decided he wanted to be a central striker it was lights out for Ibra.

Shame really as the guy definitely has the class to be a success there, but he just did not fit Barca's style.

He was a Maverick who wanted the show to be about him, rather than be a puppet to Messi's dominance.

Its all a bit like how Villa has suffered too.

I don't think it was even about wanting everything to be about him. He's simply a player who's much better suited to playing in a central role as a striker, and he's just not really a winger at all. As a striker, he's one of the very best in the world. The problem was that arguably the greatest player of all-time was fitted into his position, meaning he'd have no hope.

 

[FCBarca]

When was the last time Barca spent big money on a player and he was successful?

I wish Neymar joins a long and illustrious list of compatriots who failed at Barca.

Advantage of having most of your first team players come through the cantera, you can afford to gamble on signings

Zlatan wasn't that bad, it was just incredibly stupid to swap him with Eto'o, Hleb (even if refused) and some cash. His numbers were alright despite not clearly fitting in that system. Sanchez and even Fabregas have been far worse for me so far.

Ibra was initially 2nd choice to Villa since Valencia wouldn't deal with Barcelona when the player wanted to come. Success with Zlatan is a subjective thing, footballing wise he had great moments with the team and scored more than 20 goals and 11 assists in one season - that's success at 99% of clubs. Personality wise, he was a problem and hence why the club were always going to lose money on him

As for Cesc & Alexis, most would concur that Barcelona could recoup every cent they spent on the pair should they decide to sell

 

[Sarni]

Ibrahimovic didn't do well at Barca by any stretch, he was a downgrade on Eto'o and you had to throw in another €40m or so for the swap to go through, it was a poor transfer.

Chygrynskyi was probably the worse one though. I'm still amazed that you managed to get half of the money back, he was terrible.

 

[FCBarca]

22 goals, 13 assists. That's success at any club.

 

[Brwned]

Not convinced Barca will be able to sell Sánchez on for €30m+ myself.

 

[MoneyMay]

I think if you watch compilations of most top players in the modern game and look closely at their international exploits, they struggle alot on the international stage. Spain apart, most 'individuals' get marked out of games easily and rarely dominate for their nation. Taking that into account and the pressure that Neymar must have been under... for the greatest footballing nation at home and against one of the best sides in history, it's pretty extraordinary what he achieved and the quality of his goals through out were of a really high standard.. magical goals. His ceiling as a player is exceptionally high, really does depend on how much he dedicates to the game and how much he wants to go down as a legend.

Agreed. I personally think the Mexico game was his best, but I can understand why people would opt for the Spain game. I do believe he'll become an even better player, he isn't the finished product just yet, and I feel that comparisons with Robinho should now be avoided as Neymar's intelligence on the pitch is far greater IMO. I was looking through the stats recently and I seen that he was the most fouled player in the Confederations Cup (30 times he was fouled, Balotelli was the second most fouled at 17). I was looking through the match comps I downloaded and my word, some of his dives are pathetic. He has to cut them out at Barcelona. Obviously, it's a feature of his game and Sanchez, Busquets, etc. dive, but you get the point.

 

[Arruda]

I think if you watch compilations of most top players in the modern game and look closely at their international exploits, they struggle alot on the international stage. Spain apart, most 'individuals' get marked out of games easily and rarely dominate for their nation. Taking that into account and the pressure that Neymar must have been under... for the greatest footballing nation at home and against one of the best sides in history, it's pretty extraordinary what he achieved and the quality of his goals through out were of a really high standard.. magical goals. His ceiling as a player is exceptionally high, really does depend on how much he dedicates to the game and how much he wants to go down as a legend.

Not taking anything away from him, but it's worth remembering that World Cups and Euros are end-of season competition where most top players are knackered after a season of 50+ matches. I think this goes a long way to explain why so many of them seem to under-perform a tad, football seasons are more crowded than they were before. That isn't the case with Neymar at the moment as they're midway into the season there in Brazil.

 

[MoneyMay]

22 goals, 13 assists. That's success at any club.

Yes of course, but you signed Ibrahimovic for over £40m. Plus, you're forgetting that he just came off his best season at Inter Milan. The problem was that he didn't do as much as expected in La Liga. He scored 16 goals and registered 9 assists in 29 appearances. He didn't fit the philosophy. He would take longer than the other players to do something with the ball. He's the most technically gifted striker in the world right now, but Guardiola didn't do him any favours.

 

[Fergus' son]

Not convinced Barca will be able to sell Sánchez on for €30m+ myself.

Me either, seeing what Nani goes for will be a good indication.

Yes of course, but you signed Ibrahimovic for over £40m. Plus, you're forgetting that he just came off his best season at Inter Milan. The problem was that he didn't do as much as expected in La Liga. He scored 16 goals and registered 9 assists in 29 appearances. He didn't fit the philosophy. He would take longer than the other players to do something with the ball. He's the most technically gifted striker in the world right now, but Guardiola didn't do him any favours.

More like over 60M.

 

[MoneyMay]

It was over €60 million, no? I said over £40 million.

 

[Shinjisan]

Of course Villa was a success, he was an important part of their three years of dominance.

He joined them in 10/11, 3 years back.

10/11 - Purchased and has an excellent season
11/12 - Hurt for a large part of the season
12/13 - Not a first choice player (17 starts in the league and 5 in the champions league).

He was part of the 3 year dominance in only the last season.

Advantage of having most of your first team players come through the cantera, you can afford to gamble on signings

I thought the advantage of players blossoming from the nest will mean you won't need to make many moves in the transfer market and will only have to buy players to fit and fulfill your teams needs. However, Barca have made ego buys or square pegs to fit in round holes in the past few years. Pissing away a lot of money.

 

[Fergus' son]

It was over €60 million, no? I said over £40 million.

Ah yes, but it's still probably over £50M.

 

[Raees]

Not taking anything away from him, but it's worth remembering that World Cups and Euros are end-of season competition where most top players are knackered after a season of 50+ matches. I think this goes a long way to explain why so many of them seem to under-perform a tad, football seasons are more crowded than they were before. That isn't the case with Neymar at the moment as they're midway into the season there in Brazil.

That is a fair argument, but I do feel like the current crop of top players outside of Spain aren't as entertaining in the big games as your Zidanes, Fat Ronaldo's and Ronaldinho's, but maybe I'm just being nostalgic. Watching Neymar during the confederations cup and even Balotelli was a breath of fresh air, they looked at home.

 

[JazzG]

Fabregas is a player who was bred at Barcelona for the start of his footballing life though and fits into their system perfectly. If he has any problems there then it's that he just happens to be in a midfield full of world class player where it isn't easy for him to maintain a place in central midfield. It's certainly not the tiki-taka style that's the problem for him in my opinion.

Fabregas joined us just after he turned 16, by that age can you really be defined as being a proper Barca player? Barca fans have commented on how they are surprised at how he has not adapted to their style of football and how he has struggled with that.

 

[Balu]

That is a fair argument, but I do feel like the current crop of top players outside of Spain aren't as entertaining in the big games as your Zidanes, Fat Ronaldo's and Ronaldinho's, but maybe I'm just being nostalgic. Watching Neymar during the confederations cup and even Balotelli was a breath of fresh air, they looked at home.

I agree. The top players today are machines not magicians. They are praised for consistency more than for moments of brilliance, which is a bit sad compared to 10 years ago. I don't think that's just nostalgia.

I really hope Neymar brings that breath of fresh air to europe next year without being criticised too heavily if he doesn't perform as consistent as Ronaldo or Messi.

 

[FCBarca]

I thought the advantage of players blossoming from the nest will mean you won't need to make many moves in the transfer market and will only have to buy players to fit and fulfill your teams needs.

That's what they do

However, Barca have made ego buys or square pegs to fit in round holes in the past few years. Pissing away a lot of money.

Ego buys, that's amusing.

So your concerns for the club are financial ones? And, again, the good fortune of saving more money than any big club in Europe on their cantera players filling the majority of their squad which affords them the latitude to sustain the misses since many will be hits

Ronaldinho
Eto'O
Deco
Henry
Yaya Toure
Eric Abidal
Dani Alves
Pinto
Villa
Mascherano
Alba

 

[FCBarca]

Yes of course, but you signed Ibrahimovic for over £40m. Plus, you're forgetting that he just came off his best season at Inter Milan. The problem was that he didn't do as much as expected in La Liga. He scored 16 goals and registered 9 assists in 29 appearances. He didn't fit the philosophy. He would take longer than the other players to do something with the ball. He's the most technically gifted striker in the world right now, but Guardiola didn't do him any favours.

I did nothing, let's focus on reality. 22 goals, 13 assists...on which club can this ever be considered a flop, in reality. Sanchez has done precious little comparatively but the club continued with him due to his work ethic and professionalism as a teammate. If that were the case with Ibra, he'd still be wearing Blaugrana. Even the player himself is sore over not being able to play more with Barcelona. For an ego player like that, it was a slap in the face but his competitiveness wanted to enjoy more time playing together. He has mentioned that in interviews, it's an opportunity missed that still eats at him

Ibra is responsible for his departure, along with pizza boy...not due to his play or inability to fit in

 

[Aboutreika18]

You basically financed Inter Milan's treble by spunking that much money on Ibra.

 

[crappycraperson]

I agree. The top players today are machines not magicians. They are praised for consistency more than for moments of brilliance, which is a bit sad compared to 10 years ago. I don't think that's just nostalgia.

I really hope Neymar brings that breath of fresh air to europe next year without being criticised too heavily if he doesn't perform as consistent as Ronaldo or Messi.

I don't think that is true. Iniesta's numbers in terms of goals and assists don't hold up for someone who is touted to be the third best played in the world. But he still is by most. The level of consistency Ronaldo and Messi have shown is somewhat unseen so gets a lot of due credit. Performing in big games also gets equal credence as performing week in week out. I reckon if you gave a group of people the choice between Zidane and Messi for a big final, many possibly majority of them might go for Zidane given how well he performed in big games. In fact he was the first pick in the current CL draft going on in this very forum.

 

[JaffyJoe]

For me Villa was okay at Barca he went there as one of the best strikers in the world and he never quite replicated that form, while he did score a good number of goals in his first season he never really seemed to fit in. Not many players can play that style that Messi, Iniesta and Xavi have used to define Barca. For me simply looking at players goal/assists stats will not provide a full picture of how well they have done.

Players will score goals at Barca they create so many chances but for me it how they fit into the system that should be looked at. Zlatan could not do that and Villa struggled out wide he would have done better as a no.9 hopefully Neymar bucks the trend. It is about more than being a technically good and skilful player it is also about your mentality, decison making what you do with the ball when you have it and when you don't habve it. I remember Villa saying something along the lines of he had to learn how to play as a winger again in Barca's system and he used to just look over at Pedro and copy what he was doing.

 

[JaffyJoe]

I don't think that is true. Iniesta's numbers in terms of goals and assists don't hold up for someone who is touted to be the third best played in the world. But he still is by most. The level of consistency Ronaldo and Messi have shown is somewhat unseen so gets a lot of due credit. Performing in big games also gets equal credence as performing week in week out. I reckon if you gave a group of people the choice between Zidane and Messi for a big final, many possibly majority of them might go for Zidane given how well he performed in big games. In fact he was the first pick in the current CL draft going on in this very forum.

It is true, the two best players are greats but they don't inspire the way Zidane's generation did. There are a few standouts Iniesta being one (which is why he so loved despite stats) of them but it has been a noted trend that the game has become more about athletes like Ronaldo than skilful players like a Giovinco.

 

[Mockney]

Barca haven't signed anyone nearly as hateful as him for ages. I could probably add up all the hate I've had for all of their slightly hateful players over the last 15 years and still not get close to how much I hate him.

 

[crappycraperson]

It is true, the two best players are greats but they don't inspire the way Zidane's generation did. There are a few standouts Iniesta being one (which is why he so loved despite stats) of them but it has been a noted trend that the game has become more about athletes like Ronaldo than skilful players like a Giovinco.

It is also about the pressure now days with so much spotlight on every single match. Zidane even after his world record move never had that much pressure to perform in each and every match. That CL winning goal in his first season it self helped in that sense but the amount of criticism Messi and Ronaldo draw after 2-3 poor performances is insane.