Yet Barcelona kept winning and what happened to Inter and all that money? Your fiscal concerns aside, he played very well while with the team.
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Yet Barcelona kept winning and what happened to Inter and all that money? Your fiscal concerns aside, he played very well while with the team.
They have set that bar so high for themselves. That we are declaring the end of Barca after a league title and a Champions league semi (though quite an embarassing one) says it all. The standard expected from the very best players/teams is immense. I think it is this generation there is nowhere to hide with the internet, blogs, forums etc.
When were we really in for Villa?
I think Fergie once mentioned that we wanted to sign him after Ronaldo left
He mentioned being after a player that moved club one Summer but the player didn't want to leave his country in the end, I think people assumed that he meant Villa.
I think you would've become the first club to retain the Champions League and possibly had three in a row if you'd held onto Eto'o for another season, rather than use Ibra as a stop-gap.
Hindsight's a wonderful thing.
If you look at the ECA report from 2011 then you could perhaps make a case for player A being a proper player of club X.
http://www.ecaeurope.com/PageFiles/6175/ECA Youth Report on Academies_A4_SECURE_final.pdf
I understand that it isn't as clear cut as that, but it leaves some food for thought nevertheless.
Samu wore his way out, no one could replicate for Barcelona what he did/could...but some geniuses have an ego that makes them tough to endure let alone rely on...Eto'O was marked for exit like Ronnie & Deco by Pep but won him over before the end of that 1st transfer window only for it to result in his exit the following season
In hindsight, no one has ever won more than that team during their run...not bad
That's the scar that remains from Ronnie's era. The club won't be held ransom to egos who don't tow the club line.
Check Fabregas.
As far as I am concerned, they can keep pissing away the money and one day decimate to the ground.
Thanks for providing a list of players, who have graced Barcelona in the last 10 years, or more.
Inter made losses of more than €650m between 2006 and 2011. It wasn't Barca who financed that one great year at Inter, Moratti did with his own money. Real selling Sneijder on the cheap and Milito playing his best season ever were more important for the treble than the Eto'o/Ibra deal anyway. Who knows how Eto'o would have reacted, when Messi wanted to play in the center. Most likely it would have been the same drama.
Even Barca can't afford so many expensive misses, especially if the club continues to pay insane wages for the transfers while the home grown players earn less despite being more important to the success of the team. The wage structure will become more and more a problem when other clubs offer your youth players better deals and the really bad transfer business is one of the major reasons other teams catched up. If Barca wants to be the best team in the world and not just one of the top8, they need to do better, a lot better with transfers than in the last 5 years.
Loved how you covered my track, Balu.
Our friendship is eternal.
The fact is that the club finances is tricky. You cannot continue to make large unsuccessful buys year on year. Even if you are one of the biggest clubs in the world and always have a bailout on the ready.
Our friendship is eternal.
The fact is that the club finances is tricky. You cannot continue to make large unsuccessful buys year on year. Even if you are one of the biggest clubs in the world and always have a bailout on the ready.
What constitutes so many let alone misses?
Homegrown players may start out earning less but they play for more than the paycheck which always makes them vital to the club...and why so few leave the club. Club is founded on a productive cantera which gives the latitude I already mentioned for misses on transfers.
They've been top 4 for nearly a decade now and most of that time, far & away the team that no one could unlock.
Been unlocked now though. Infact bayern just smashed the door open. 7 times.
Barca have made it to 3 CL finals during that time. "Most of that time, far & away the team that no one could unlock" sounds way over the top. And the CL winning team around Ronaldinho wasn't great because of the homegrown players. Of course, a few cantera players contributed but the team wasn't any different to United 99 or Bayern 2013 in that regard.
I call an expensive transfer a miss, when the player doesn't fit your team and your team isn't interested in tweaking the system to use the new player's strength to make the team better. Barca were by far the best team in the world in 10/11, then went on and signed two of the best players in the world in Fabregas and Sanchez. But the team dropped a level, while both players didn't perform as good as before. That's two expensive misses and they hurt the further development of the team. If the goal is to stay the team that no one can unlock most of the time, then Barca have to do better. You make it sound like the club can afford to gamble on big transfers because of the youth players, but that's not true. None of the top teams can, because the difference between them isn't as big as a few results in europe suggest. Bayern can't either and they have quality youth players and a lot of money as well. Every big transfer has to be a success, if we want to be at the top of europe. Because some of the other top teams will get it right and catch up.
Don't overlook 6 straight semifinals.
One wasn't needed while the other has yet to fit in. Either way, both continue to log heavy minutes in the rotation so either you're overstating things or redefining what a miss means. Kaka, expensive player that barely plays - that is a miss
No club team has dominated in the manner Barcelona has for as long as they have, ever. Dropping a level is not only an inevitability but it merely is down a level from untouchable. Opponents are looking to label it an end to the hegemony when it's perhaps the end of unrivaled dominance. It's wishful thinking to believe they're drifting into obscurity
Sorry but you're clutching at straws.
Actually, it is true. And they will continue to get boosted by the influx of youth talent while looking to augment their squad through big signings. I despise Rosell but his work with Zubi in transfers can only be commended thus far.
Bayern has to rely on more transfers than Barcelona, every big club has to. Barcelona is unique in European football in that regard, no point trying to lump the Bavarian champs into the same category because they have some great talents from their cantera
There's also something called complacency, injuries, coaching changes etc. that impact that success. Suggesting that their transfer record is the source of their 'problems' is baseless. The capital club, by comparison, have had several expensive misses over the past decade while ignoring their cantera and yet we never read much about how much of a 'problem' this is for them.
The reason being that transfers is the one area of criticism that critics like to take a shot at since the club has few other perceived weaknesses. Far cry from the club's impending doom
Are you serious? The whole world is laughing at Real's transfer policy all the time. Hell, you won't read 5 posts about Real on here without someone calling it a circus. Of course the expectations for Barca are higher right now, because Real have won feck all in europe in the last 10 years. You can't raise the expectations for Barca by writing hyperbole statements like "far & away the team that no one could unlock" and then expect to be judged solely in comparison to Real.
But that's only true for this generation. Cryuff's dream team and Barca in 06 weren't anything special in that regard. And no one knows what happens in the next generations. When van Gaal was manager, there were more players from the Netherlands playing than players from your youth academy.
I think Balu is winning this discussion. The objectivity seems to help.
Not that this is really relevant to the discussion, but both United & Bayern have fairly similar records in that time frame. From 07-2011 United had 3 finals, one semi & a quarter, whilst Bayern from 08-2013 had 3 finals, a semi, a quarter & a 2nd round. Barca were undoubtedly the best team in the world, and for a much longer time than anyone else in this era, but I still think you're hyperboling it a little.
Technically the Co-efficient rankings don't put you "far & away" above the rest. In fact you're only 10 above Bayern. Which is pretty much the same they are above Chelsea.
6 straight semifinals which underscores how consistently dominant they have been. No one else has done the same, not hyperbole just a fact
The comparison to RM was on transfers because that's the main criticism levied at Barcelona yet they are the least unsuccessful in that regard. It's the epitome of clutching at straws to either focus on or use their transfer record as a basis for their 'decline'
What are we talking about? Past, present or future? I've consistently pointed out that it was Laporta & Pep's return to the cantera focused philosophy that has seen the club's rise to the top
We've all reached 3 finals in that time, and had a 5 year period of consistent late stage progress. You've won all your finals, and achieved an extra year of consistency, but in a knock out tournament, I wouldn't call that dominance. Just being better. Which no one disputes you have been (until now)
It's a rather pointless semantic argument, I'm just agreeing with Balu that "far & away, unlockable" & "dominant" are slightly hyperbolic.
It is semantics perhaps but that sort of consistency at the top is unprecedented for a reason
Not sure how dominant is hyperbolic when those same players represent the NT as well and we know how dominant they've been for the past 6 years as well
Any club or International competition has to include the core Barcelona players in the conversation of favorites. They are not unlockable as they were but their run is hardly over
Not sure how dominant is hyperbolic when those same players represent the NT as well and we know how dominant they've been for the past 6 years as well
Any club or International competition has to include the core Barcelona players in the conversation of favorites. They are not unlockable as they were but their run is hardly over
It's not clutching straws. We're talking about football clubs and Barca made bad transfers. That's it. Do you think we shouldn't criticise Barca's transfers because everything else is great?
But neither Pep nor Laporta is in charge at the club anymore? So if we're talking present than saying every big club has to rely more on transfers and Barca is unique in that regard seems far-fetched, because the last 2 years it clearly isn't working as well as it did between 08 and 2011. Do you think Barca's academy players will have a greater impact as Bayern's the next years? If yes, why?
If all you're talking about is those 3 years between 08 and 11, then fair enough. Judging the productivity of a youth academy and the success of transfers over such a short time period seems stupid to me, but can't argue against it. During those years, big transfer misses weren't a problem for Barca. But you were making bold statements about almost a decade of dominance and the club being in a unique position, so you were talking about past, present and future.
It is clutching at straws when it's the basis for the argument that Barcelona are facing impending doom or decline
Today's present is the result of the recent past. Pep & Joan refocused the club's priorities which continue today albeit to a lesser degree. Still, my point about cantera & needs for transfers stands - no other big club has more of their squad filled out by their own cantera.
When Bayern get a run on European competition the way Barcelona have the past 7 years, perhaps a comparison can be made...same applies to their cantera. As it stands, they still have built their squad with more transfers than Barcelona
Strange because I find it stupid to focus on years where fewer transfers were needed anyway since the squad was not in need of major additions. Plus, no club can always incorporate youth players every season. And a big reason why the club has been loaning out or considering sales for cantera players is due to being spoiled for depth - no other club has that sort of luxury either
Nice to see Rijkaard and Ronaldinho just air brushed out of the painting for Laporta and Guardiola. Of course, Laporta did try to sign David Beckham.
Well said
In 2009 Barca were clearly 2 or 3 levels above Bayern. That 4-0 smashing was very hurtful. Since then Barca spent more money on transfers than Bayern, but Bayern catched up anyway (it's not far-fetched to say Bayern were more successful in europe since 09/10 than Barca). And most likely Barca again will outspend Bayern massively this summer. Neymar is probably a bigger risk than Götze and Barca hasn't even bought players for the weak points in the team.
What team is in your opinion more dependent on the new transfers to work? Barca or Bayern?
Just to clarify, I don't want to turn this into a comparison between Bayern and Barca, I'm really sorry for that and won't continue that. I just think the statement, that Barca isn't as dependent on big transfers to work as all the other top clubs is incredibly arrogant and plain wrong.
Look at the rosters, simple enough. Which team relied more on transfers?
Well, if Barca's transfers weren't as bad they could have relied on them and not looked as clueless in those two games last season, just a thought.
Do you count Fabregas and Pique as transfers or as home grown players, btw.?
Do you count Fabregas and Pique as transfers or as home grown players, btw.?
Barca have wasted plenty of money on buys who turned out to be flops
We are focussing on reality. You forgot, or didn't know, that Ibrahimovic was amazing in his last season for Inter Milan. The price wouldn't have been as high had he not had performed the way he did. But because of the price, the expectations were very high. He was definitely a flop and not because of his figures, but because he had one season and then was sold to AC Milan afterwards. At Manchester United, his numbers register well, but Barcelona have a different philosophy and I feel you're ignoring the price tag, for the sake of enhancing your argument.
The thing is, Ibrahimovic has known to get better as he plays more with the club he's with. When he joined Inter Milan, he only scored 15 league goals. In his final season, he scored 27 league goals. When he joined AC Milan, he only scored 14 league goals. In his final season, he scored an impressive 28 league goals. It's been that way for the most of his career, with a couple of exceptions (Juventus, for example).
I do understand your point, but blaming this all on Ibrahimovic is a bit ignorant IMO and the Sanchez comparison is a poor one. The reason I say this is because Sanchez operates as a winger, a false winger to be more specific, so he has to press more and work harder defensively to cover Alves. That's not to say that you're wrong because Guardiola took a good move in taming Ibrahimovic's ego, but with an open mind I'd like to believe there's truth in the way Guardiola managed him. Some of them are not fabrications. And the use of the swear words in Ibrahimovic's book show how strongly he felt.
If you are looking at 7 years, then Barca pretty much bought the UCL in 2006 with Rijkaard. So you are speaking nonsense. As always.
Ibrahimovic was obviously a bad signing because they bought a player that had the wrong mentality and/or dealt with is difficult attitude poorly resulting in him being unhappy at the club within just six months. Doesn't really matter if the issues were off the pitch or on the pitch when the end result is a ~€30m loss in less than a year.
I read on a journal today that 20 out of every 100 boys christened in Bolivia the past year have been given the name Neymar.
Random but interesting Arruda. At least 20 years from now we won't have to put up with a ton of Bolivian players being called "the next Neymar"...it'll just be Neymar
20 years from now? They should be invading youtube in the next 3 years.
Again, 22 goals, 13 assists...and a terrible attitude. An attitude that has seen him change venue time after time, he's a mercenary not a footballer with longevity at any one club. If he's a flop, there are few successes in football transfers.
Fiscally, big money was lost but there are many reasons for why that was the case - not all of which are due to pizza boy & his client's bad attitude
I guess your answer then is that indeed Bayern's roster consists of more transfers than Barcelona's...which is what I had been saying
As for Cesc & Pique, does Bayern have any poached youth talents that eventually pushed for their return?
Ibra wasn't a flop in the same way Berbatov wasn't a flop. They were just disappointing signings in the long run and left having not achieved what they, the club or the fans had hoped for.
Scoring a classico winner, surely it must have a special place for the Barca fans.
But a semi-final isn't an indication of dominance, even if it's consistent when you do it 6 times in a row.
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