Its a deserved red - but what people are angry about (and Neymar fanboys can't seem to understand this) is the overreaction - that is trying to con the referee. Why is that hard to understand?
Neymar
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I thought Busquets, Fabregas, Xavis etc actions were worse than Neymars personally.
Surprise surprise, Neymar is a fanny.
Nah, I have never defended diving, but nice attempt at deflecting my actual comment. However, acting like he is one of the only ones to do it is absolutely idiotic. Likewise, declaring him disgusting, disgraceful and a cretin is both cringy and a complete over-reaction. I mean, what the actual feck? Get a grip, it's embarrassing.
Diving is obviously an awful thing, it'd be great if it could be completely eradicated from the game. But pretending that continental players are the only ones guilty of it is stupid. And Neymar gets genuinely kicked more than the vast majority of players, it's actually quite strange that he hasn't had a serious injury yet.
Yeah it's odd that people seem to particularly dislike Neymar for something that many players do, I blame his hair.
I find usually it's jealousy... people had the same over CR7
Well in my eyes it's seeing such talented players rolling around like fannys that's actually embarrassing and cringy.
I haven't pretended (or even come close) that it's only continental players who dive, Ashley Young is a cnut for it for a start, and I don't care if Neymar does get genuinely kicked, he also dives and hugely exaggerates very slight contact to con the referee. Also, the problem is more widespread on the continent, whether you want to admit it or not.
It's shit like this that makes football look pathetic to many non-fans and I can't say I blame them for thinking that way. El Classico, for example, should be a showpiece that we can point to as an advert for the game, but it's generally full of diving, surrounding the ref and generall ballbagginess.
You make it seem as though it was never going to be a red card, if he didn't exaggerate the contact.
You make it seem as though it was never going to be a red card, if he didn't exaggerate the contact.
Are you just being deliberately stupid now?
I'm going to say this again, in as simple a way as I can: I'm not talking about last night, I'm talking about him in general.
That's three times now, so can we please move on from the red card?
True.
Everyone knows the south americans exaggerate challenges. If they want to point the finger it should be pointed at their chocolate hardman captain who's done this kind of thing various times, just happens this time he got caught.
I don't know about anyone else but for me it's the sheer exaggeration that he displays whenever he dives. Alves is the exact same.
As far as football goes I actually quite like both of them. They're great to watch but they do tend to let themselves down in that regard.
Ah, here come the insults. Let's look at your first post:
My first response was regarding the "twattery" part. It seemed to me like you thought him exaggerating contact was what led to the red card. That was my interpretation of your post. What I said was that regardless of his "twattery", it was a red card. It's not ambiguous.
Seriously now, come on - just read the very first part of the very first line. It's quite straight forward.
If I haven't seen the match and I'm asking for footage, how can I be discussing the particulars of the incident?
If I haven't seen the match and I'm asking for footage, how can I be discussing the particulars of the incident?
It's a red, end of. People should be angry at Brown yet look to scapegoat Neymar for exaggerating the douchery. No douchery, no exaggeration.
It's an aspect of his game that has needed cleaning up and he's been very good at it - not one dive so far with Barcelona and in time I suspect he'll learn from Messi to cut out the theatrics as well
I did agree with a red. I haven't seen Barca enough this season to comment on him diving/not diving. I was referring only to this specific incident.
Diving is a tough one for me, I've been guilty of it in the past... It just happens sometime, you exaggerate a nick from a defender.
As for Neymar, Brown wouldnt have been deservedly sent off if it wasn't for Neymars OTT reaction. Not condoning it... But hardly a massive deal. Every Celtic fan I've heard or seen interviewed have blamed Brown
As for Neymar, Brown wouldnt have been deservedly sent off if it wasn't for Neymars OTT reaction. Not condoning it... But hardly a massive deal. Every Celtic fan I've heard or seen interviewed have blamed Brown
Not one dive? He dived last night in the first half and was rightfully laughed at by the referee.
marvelous player
You're the one that needs to get a grip. Alves, Young, Gerrard, Bale, Ronaldo, Suarez etc all get ridiculed for various degrees of twattishness. Just because Neymar is a giant fanny as well as a diver, doesn't mean you have to get overprotective of him. He's not your mate
I'm not saying he shouldn't be criticised for his diving, or that he should be immune to it. But the levels of hatred are completely out of proportion to anything he's actually done. People hate him because he had flambouyant hairstyles (most of which were fairly common in Brazil for young men), he's young and hyped. But he's actually a very hard worker, a smart and humble fella off the pitch. He's said all the right things since arriving at Barca and has had an excellent attitude. I'm not saying everyone has to love him, I'll just never understand the over-the-top hatred of a young player who hasn't really done anything significantly wrong. I watch football to enjoy talents like him, who make football exciting. It seems odd to me to describe him with adjectives that are more suited to someone like Pol Pot... Yeah, context and all, but it still amuses me. He's young, hopefully the diving will be eradicated from his game as he matures.
I watched the match last evening, and even though I like Barcelona, it seems that he has brought them down a great deal. It is a good job he isn't in the premier league because he wouldn't survive 5 minutes. As for El Clasico, god help him should he have to face Pepe because he is not going to last 5 minutes since he isn't a Diego Costa type hardman. It is a shame really, he has the talent, but just like all those who start in a new league, they have to bring their diving antics i.e. Neymar, Suarez, Ronaldo to name but a few. It is something that is ruining the game and I even though I would defend Barcelona, I cannot condone the actions of a player who at the slightest of touches, goes down as if he has been shot by a sniper. Unless there is a new directive in World football where referees can book a player for diving, this will simply carry on and it will continue to rot the beautiful game.
For me, this is the crux of the matter. Right or wrong, referees definitely give decisions to players more frequently when they exaggerate contact. Countless times, I've seen players try to be too honest, only to not get a decision that they deserved. Think of what would have happened to Torres if Vertonghen had crumbled to the pitch holding his face. Until referees learn to give decisions regardless of the "victim's" reaction, it's difficult to fault players for exaggerating contact, as long as the contact was definitely there. Simulating is another issue.
Don't be ridiculous, he is decent so far, with few good and few poor performances.
Better than MEssi so far.
If we agree that it was a red, then there is no need to go into the details of the contact.
I disagree with your last statement though. The things I hate the most in football: 1- trying to hurt the opponent deliberately. 2- diving/simulation. 3- exaggerating an injury. (in that order)
Personally I would have been far more pissed off if Neymar didn't exaggerate the injury and Brown got away with it. In a perfect world Neymar would react proportionally to the hit, and Brown would be sent off by the ref for unsportsmanlike conduct, but the lesser evil IMO is still that Brown gets what he deserves (a red card) and Neymar gets what he deserves (a backlash by people who don't like players exaggerating injuries).
Diving is much worse though, because it kills the justice in the game. However, at least when you dive you're still just trying to win, but when you're trying to hurt an opponent deliberately then you're just a twat who shouldn't be playing the game.
The problem with this is that football is not a no-contact sport. There will be contact to various extent. Exaggerating the level of contact does no good. In cases of Brown's red card, I have no sympathy for him, but it's possible to be annoyed at the cheats that simulate and exaggerate at the same time. I play football, it takes a lot to bring you down.
Don't be ridiculous, he is decent so far, with few good and few poor performances.
Better than MEssi so far.
What a redundant post. Neymar has outclassed Messi in quite a few games this season: Sevilla, Ajax, and Rayo Vallecano come to mind. To say he's had a "few poor performances" is plain ignorance. Messi has had a couple of great games, but he's still yet to hit top form.
He outplayed him in Ajax game, even though Messi hasn't played in that game? So Messi outplayed him in every game he hasn't played at start too.
Vs Rayo he was mediocre, I'll post you his performance later.
He outplayed him in Ajax game, even though Messi hasn't played in that game? So Messi outplayed him in every game he hasn't played at start too.
Vs Rayo he was mediocre, I'll post you his performance later.
Messi did play vs. Ajax. He scored a hat-trick, but Neymar offered a better overall performance. Many Barcelona fans actually said that Neymar was better on the night.
I know there's also other notorious episodes beyond diving, but I find the different reactions to Neymar interesting when compared to Suárez.
You get the same hard core that will not see beyond fanny/playacting = despicable cnut, but a lot more excusing for being a quality player, etc.
I don't like the guy as you know, but it was a clear red to me (it's funny it's supposed to be his back when to me he clearly went for his left arm supporting him). Pointless, infantile, exactly the sort of stupid thing players like Suarez and Neymar wind their rivals up for: it's a setup and the defender only has himself to blame for biting.
I rate Brown as the sort of dickhead defensive midfielder every team needs. But his brand of Joey Barton-style off-the-ball cuntishness, such as the kick out last night and the stamp which left the Karagandy boy in hospital, is no less of an issue than Neymar's flouncing around.
My bad, sorry, I thought you were talking about Celtic from some reason.
I'll quote you after the game to continue this post.
Why would you compare Neymar and Suarez? Their levels of cuntishness aren't even in the same stratosphere, which is what make Suarez levels of hate for Neymar so bizarre.
As I said, Suarez also has other controversies in his record, but you are wrong if you don't think they are cut from the same cloth in terms of playacting, winding up opponents, trying to get them sent off and constantly moaning at the referee.
No, I've watched a lot of Neymar for a long time, and he's very bad for diving and exaggerating, but no where even close to Suarez in terms of the other things you mentioned. Examples would be handy if you're going to insist that he is.
Hilarious that his thread started with a call for United to buy him as though we would ever buy a player of that calibre
You want examples/evidence of winding up opponents? I didn't know players went around the pitch with a mic on them. Only obvious recent example I can think off the top of my head is his blowing kisses at a Uruguayan player during the Confeds, right before the corner they scored from. That's him down to a tee.
The stamp aye, absolutely no need. Last night? I genuinely don't think he was trying to hurt Neymar or he simply would have. He had every opportunity to stamp on him or intentionally land on him. It was sheer pettiness rather than violence imo.
What, after the guy clearly said something in his ear and then looked back and said something else again? I doubt Gonzalez was congratulating him on a game well played, I'm fairly sure it was him trying to wind Neymar up. Fair play to Neymar for getting the last laugh. Look, if you want to believe Neymar is cut from the same cloth as Suarez, go ahead. It's madness though. At least you admitted earlier that you don't like him, which would fit in with your completely exaggerated view of him. Anyway, no point discussing this point any longer, if you think he's as dislikable as someone like Suarez then I'd say you're hugely biased for one reason or another, but each to their own.
It looked like a case of 'letting him know he was there' and it should have been a yellow which is fair in my view. In days gone past a player would brush this off and mark Browns cards for a future crunch but now we see play acting and drama queens.
I've seen him playing for Santos for many years now and he has always been a cocky shit winding up opponents then crying wolf when he gets as much as a nudge. I don't like it, I don't make a point of calling him names either or having an irrational dislike for him, I just see it as a "type" that is all too often in South America. Loads of forwards try get their markers to lose concentration by winding them up, it comes right up from street football. The thing is X% do it but are not particularly good so defenders brush it off, Y% are good and let their football do the talking, then a minority are really good but still resort to it because it is clever and those two are right there.
It is actually clever, why let defenders kick lumps into you all game long? Wind them up into getting themselves yellow/red-carded quickly so they stop kicking you, and go down like you've been shot so they are a bit paranoid about getting anywhere near you for fear of being sent off. It actually works, Suárez got about 7 Argentinian players yellow carded in one game in the Copa América. Some were fouls, some weren't, who cares? It sent their defence into complete disarray as they took turns to mark him to avoid second yellows, and our single goal threat came from the resulting set pieces. By the end they were all standing off him as they couldn't afford a second sending off. It's a valid strategy, you don't have to like it to admit it.
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