Our Rivals Squad next year - Arsenal

Shark said:
Explain this logic. I can't think of a single position Arsenal are stronger than us in. Not even midfield these days.
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You have lots of injured players to come back and so do Arsenal. When they're all back I think Arsenal have a better squad and a better manager (this season at least) to make the most of that squad.

Next season could be different when LvG finally realises (bonnnnng!) that back 3 doesn't work when the players aren't used to it. And he buys in loads of other expensive, well paid players. But for this season the likes of Koscielny, Arteta, Wilshere, Ramsay and specially Walcott returning will be decisive IMHO.
 
Dumbstar said:
You have lots of injured players to come back and so do Arsenal. When they're all back I think Arsenal have a better squad and a better manager (this season at least) to make the most of that squad.

Next season could be different when LvG finally realises (bonnnnng!) that back 3 doesn't work when the players aren't used to it. And he buys in loads of other expensive, well paid players. But for this season the likes of Koscielny, Arteta, Wilshere, Ramsay and specially Walcott returning will be decisive IMHO.
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Nope, not buying into this logic. :nono:
 
Dumbstar said:
You have lots of injured players to come back and so do Arsenal. When they're all back I think Arsenal have a better squad and a better manager (this season at least) to make the most of that squad.

Next season could be different when LvG finally realises (bonnnnng!) that back 3 doesn't work when the players aren't used to it. And he buys in loads of other expensive, well paid players. But for this season the likes of Koscielny, Arteta, Wilshere, Ramsay and specially Walcott returning will be decisive IMHO.
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seriously Dumbstar...

I worry for you.

alright...enjoy your 'sexy' loss, draw and win against a team below the Prem.

:)
 
Dumbstar said:
You have lots of injured players to come back and so do Arsenal. When they're all back I think Arsenal have a better squad and a better manager (this season at least) to make the most of that squad.

Next season could be different when LvG finally realises (bonnnnng!) that back 3 doesn't work when the players aren't used to it. And he buys in loads of other expensive, well paid players. But for this season the likes of Koscielny, Arteta, Wilshere, Ramsay and specially Walcott returning will be decisive IMHO.
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Lets see. Arteta looks over the hill, Ramsey has been bang average this season, Wilshere hasn't done Jack shit either and spends more time out injured than on a pitch. Walcott? I have no idea where he even fits in with Sanchez in the team. Koscieny will be an improvement over what they have but hardly decisive.

Not buying it.
 
Shark said:
Lets see. Arteta looks over the hill, Ramsey has been bang average this season, Wilshere hasn't done Jack shit either and spends more time out injured than on a pitch. Walcott? I have no idea where he even fits in with Sanchez in the team. Koscieny will be an improvement over what they have but hardly decisive.

Not buying it.
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Wilshere spends less time on the medical table than Falcao, Smalling, etc. So we'll have to assume all return from injuries otherwise it gets subjective about who gets injured more.

Arteta gives that Arsenal backline a calming influence like Blind has been for you. Ramsay started scoring again before getting injured. He'll easily get 10-15 goals for the rest of the season. Walcott replaces Welbeck in the team and instantly gets 15+ goals, he's that good. Sanchez is their X-Factor, their Suarez, this season much like Di Maria is yours. All of these players are old premiership pros and Wenger knows the league. They have the edge this season. Like I said next season could be different.
 
Shark said:
Lets see. Arteta looks over the hill, Ramsey has been bang average this season, Wilshere hasn't done Jack shit either and spends more time out injured than on a pitch. Walcott? I have no idea where he even fits in with Sanchez in the team. Koscieny will be an improvement over what they have but hardly decisive.

Not buying it.
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Not to mention that given their injury record, chance of having all those players up and running is about as big as us having all of our defenders match fit.
 
Dumbstar said:
Wilshere spends less time on the medical table than Falcao, Smalling, etc. So we'll have to assume all return from injuries otherwise it gets subjective about who gets injured more.

Arteta gives that Arsenal backline a calming influence like Blind has been for you. Ramsay started scoring again before getting injured. He'll easily get 10-15 goals for the rest of the season. Walcott replaces Welbeck in the team and instantly gets 15+ goals, he's that good. Sanchez is their X-Factor, their Suarez, this season much like Di Maria is yours. All of these players are old premiership pros and Wenger knows the league. They have the edge this season. Like I said next season could be different.
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Lot of ifs in your post, if those players come back will they score 10-15 goals. Wenger knows the league? So what, he hasnt won it in 10 years. Right now they're below us and as Kostur said its a question if all those players will even be fit in the same time. Even if they will I dont think they have the edge.
Arteta gives that Arsenal backline a calming influence. I think even some Arsenal fans would disagree with that.
 
Arteta has been woeful for Arsenal for over a year now so not sure where that calming influence thing has come from. I think Arsenal will buy someone in January to replace him, least I can't see Wenger ignoring this any longer.
 
Dumbstar said:
Wilshere spends less time on the medical table than Falcao, Smalling, etc. So we'll have to assume all return from injuries otherwise it gets subjective about who gets injured more.

Arteta gives that Arsenal backline a calming influence like Blind has been for you. Ramsay started scoring again before getting injured. He'll easily get 10-15 goals for the rest of the season. Walcott replaces Welbeck in the team and instantly gets 15+ goals, he's that good. Sanchez is their X-Factor, their Suarez, this season much like Di Maria is yours. All of these players are old premiership pros and Wenger knows the league. They have the edge this season. Like I said next season could be different.
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Well thats just not true is it?

As for players coming back, I reckon us getting our whole first choice defence, plus 3/4 of our midfield, and our record signing might be quite important.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Arteta has been woeful for Arsenal for over a year now so not sure where that calming influence thing has come from. I think Arsenal will buy someone in January to replace him, least I can't see Wenger ignoring this any longer.
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He's looked poor on the big games but is perfect against mid-table teams, a million times better than Flamini at any rate.

He was brilliant against you guys as well, that has to be remembered.
 
ThierryHenry said:
He's looked poor on the big games but is perfect against mid-table teams, a million times better than Flamini at any rate.

He was brilliant against you guys as well, that has to be remembered.
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Interesting to hear you say that. All asnl fans I've spoken with want him gone even though he's the club captain. He might be a better option than flamini but that's hardly a good endorsement.

Looking at who arsenal have to come back doesn't really worry me. Us on the other hand have to look forward to the likes of smalling, rafael, shaw, blind, Herrera and Fellaini to come back into the team.
 
OneUnited24 said:
Interesting to hear you say that. All asnl fans I've spoken with want him gone even though he's the club captain. He might be a better option than flamini but that's hardly a good endorsement.

Looking at who arsenal have to come back doesn't really worry me. Us on the other hand have to look forward to the likes of smalling, rafael, shaw, blind, Herrera and Fellaini to come back into the team.
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How many of your fans are going to be looking forward to that? :lol:
 
OneUnited24 said:
Interesting to hear you say that. All asnl fans I've spoken with want him gone even though he's the club captain. He might be a better option than flamini but that's hardly a good endorsement.

Looking at who arsenal have to come back doesn't really worry me. Us on the other hand have to look forward to the likes of smalling, rafael, shaw, blind, Herrera and Fellaini to come back into the team.
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Ramsey, Wilshere, Ozil, Walcott, Koscielny and Arteta might not scare you but that's almost a list of our most talented players. We'll finish 3rd or 4th like you, and I don't really care in which order any more. It's hardly a race to get excited by, is it?

Opinions from Arsenal fans I know are pretty mixed on Arteta. He's not as good as he once was, but he's very good at the metronome role, defensively positions himself excellently and has always been one of the best tacklers in our team (no-one ever seems to pick up on this). We always play better with him in the side, even if that's mainly because Flamini is crap. His problem is how ridiculously slow he's become, and how the team rarely sets out in a way to protect him against decent teams. He's very similar to Blind, but Arteta's the smarter player and better passer. Blind's better because he can still run up and down a football pitch.
 
ISSYNAZAR said:
Probably the large majority given the gutless midfield performance against Villa.
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OneUnited24 said:
Anyone who's watched him this season for us. Also I'd rather see him in my midfield than flamini or arteta. Lolz
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Sammyjunn said:
Probably a lot, as he has been quite good since he's back, and is very important in midfield.. (And we have to play Fletch otherwise)
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I'm genuinely surprised to read that. It seems any time I go into a match thread all I see are people abusing him.
 
ThierryHenry said:
Ramsey, Wilshere, Ozil, Walcott, Koscielny and Arteta might not scare you but that's almost a list of our most talented players. We'll finish 3rd or 4th like you, and I don't really care in which order any more. It's hardly a race to get excited by, is it?

Opinions from Arsenal fans I know are pretty mixed on Arteta. He's not as good as he once was, but he's very good at the metronome role, defensively positions himself excellently and has always been one of the best tacklers in our team (no-one ever seems to pick up on this). We always play better with him in the side, even if that's mainly because Flamini is crap. His problem is how ridiculously slow he's become, and how the team rarely sets out in a way to protect him against decent teams. He's very similar to Blind, but Arteta's the smarter player and better passer. Blind's better because he can still run up and down a football pitch.
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Arteta smarter than Blind? No way mate, Blind is as intelligent as you get. Arteta might be more neat than Blind, but in terms of key passes and creating chances Blind is above him, his tactical awareness defensively is also way better, more interceptions, more blocks, more clearances.
 
Sammyjunn said:
Arteta smarter than Blind? No way mate, Blind is as intelligent as you get. Arteta might be more neat than Blind, but in terms of key passes and creating chances Blind is above him, his tactical awareness defensively is also way better, more interceptions, more blocks, more clearances.
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Arteta used to be an attacking player, he's been a defensive midfielder since he came to Arsenal so doesn't really play a creative game at all. In 06/07 he had 9 goals and 12 assists just in the league.

I don't think either have played enough football to compare tackles/ interceptions/ blocks stats, but I'd be shocked if Blind was close to the Arteta of 2011-13 in terms of numbers. For the record, I like Blind a lot. We're both just backing our own horses here.
 
ThierryHenry said:
Arteta used to be an attacking player, he's been a defensive midfielder since he came to Arsenal so doesn't really play a creative game at all. In 06/07 he had 9 goals and 12 assists just in the league.

I don't think either have played enough football to compare tackles/ interceptions/ blocks stats, but I'd be shocked if Blind was close to the Arteta of 2011-13 in terms of numbers. For the record, I like Blind a lot. We're both just backing our own horses here.
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Ofcourse he was brilliant in the past, when played in a more attacking role.

He is still a fine player, and a lot better than Flamini, you probably shouldnt take me seriously as I'm a huge Blind fan anyway.
 
That was a pretty piss poor performance, but the three points were there for the taking, which says more about 'Pool than us.

Wenger's still got a 70% functioning team out there, most playing in positions unsuited to their abilities. Not a huge surprise to see us not dominate play in a challenging atmosphere away.
 
I find it amazing that Dumby thinks a squad with Giroud and Welbeck as strikers is a better squad than ours and will finish above us.
 
ThierryHenry said:
Ramsey, Wilshere, Ozil, Walcott, Koscielny and Arteta might not scare you but that's almost a list of our most talented players. We'll finish 3rd or 4th like you, and I don't really care in which order any more. It's hardly a race to get excited by, is it?

Opinions from Arsenal fans I know are pretty mixed on Arteta. He's not as good as he once was, but he's very good at the metronome role, defensively positions himself excellently and has always been one of the best tacklers in our team (no-one ever seems to pick up on this). We always play better with him in the side, even if that's mainly because Flamini is crap. His problem is how ridiculously slow he's become, and how the team rarely sets out in a way to protect him against decent teams. He's very similar to Blind, but Arteta's the smarter player and better passer. Blind's better because he can still run up and down a football pitch.
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Koscielny will shore up your defence and as someone looking in that would definitely improve you as a unit and Walcott will offer you pace but is he a drastic improvement on Welbeck?

As for the others i'm just not sure how much of a impact they will make. Ramsey has looked really off the pace whenever i've seen him this season, i wouldn't personally want him in the team ahead of Ox or Carzola. Wilshere is someone who is arguably injured more often than not and again he hasn't really don't much this season which makes me think hes a massive miss for you - but i guess in that deeper role he would be a infinite option better than Arteta or Famlini. As for Ozil i've yet to see him live up to that £40m price tag, his play style reminds me of Berbatov and in a team thats devoid of significant place, outside a few, just doesnt look affective.

Finally i disagree with Arteta being smarter or a better passer than Blind. That comment is just false in every way and, without being condescending, is just what someone who hasn't watched Blind that much this season would say. Blind has been a HUGE loss for us since his injury, before it i would say he was our best midfielder who would keep it simple but play it forward whenever he got a chance.
 
Yesterdays performance I think summed up a lot of our weaknesses. Without Arteta completely useless at holding on to the ball and efficiently breaking up play, another problem is he is in serious decline as well. Then when we get ourselves into the lead just throw it away cheaply. Liverpool didn't look like they would score when we went 2-1 up, they just huffed and puffed but with us you know we'll always give a good chance away. First half Liverpool's pressing caused us issues, it was so blatant they would set up like that. Ball retention was a joke, Ox looked like a player rushed back for this match.

Per Mertesacker has also been a fecking joke this season, if our club had done it's job and actually bought a CB in I'd drop him as soon as Koscielny got back. Yesterday again he ducked out of a header, not the first time he has been at fault and giving away goals. Gotta say Debuchy has been superb since coming back from injury, no surprise Wenger kept him as our CB after his recent performances. If only he had fecking bought one in the summer though...

Archie Leach said:
Arteta is crap at breaking up play but yesterday would've allowed us to keep possession at least. We had 37%, it's the worst passing display I've seen from an Arsenal team.
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I actually think he is quite good at breaking up play, the biggest problem is his legs have gone so he is getting slower and more injury prone. Nevertheless we still need a new DM.
 
MDFC Manager said:
I find it amazing that Dumby thinks a squad with Giroud and Welbeck as strikers is a better squad than ours and will finish above us.
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Not quite the full story is it MDFC? Their forward lineup consists of Sanchez and Walcott too. Yes both are strikers and extremely dangerous ones at that. Giroud and Welbeck are good 'options' to have. You have Rooney, RvP, Falcao and Di Maria as your forward options. Again good options.

Its midfield where Arsenal take it, and also the way Wenger sets his teams up. LvG will constantly fck up with his insistence of 3 at the back and its too early for that system to work this season. Next season maybe but not this. Too many new players in too soon, all having to play an alien system.
 
OneUnited24 said:
Koscielny will shore up your defence and as someone looking in that would definitely improve you as a unit and Walcott will offer you pace but is he a drastic improvement on Welbeck?

As for the others i'm just not sure how much of a impact they will make. Ramsey has looked really off the pace whenever i've seen him this season, i wouldn't personally want him in the team ahead of Ox or Carzola. Wilshere is someone who is arguably injured more often than not and again he hasn't really don't much this season which makes me think hes a massive miss for you - but i guess in that deeper role he would be a infinite option better than Arteta or Famlini. As for Ozil i've yet to see him live up to that £40m price tag, his play style reminds me of Berbatov and in a team thats devoid of significant place, outside a few, just doesnt look affective.

Finally i disagree with Arteta being smarter or a better passer than Blind. That comment is just false in every way and, without being condescending, is just what someone who hasn't watched Blind that much this season would say. Blind has been a HUGE loss for us since his injury, before it i would say he was our best midfielder who would keep it simple but play it forward whenever he got a chance.
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I mean, fine, this post is just your opinion but it also comes across as pretty delusional. I don't really get it - are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? You don't think that list of players are going to improve a very average Arsenal team?

We've been terrible this season, genuinely awful. Our best form in the last few seasons has come when we have Mertesacker and Koscielny in defence, and a midfield of Arteta, Ramsey and Ozil. Neither combination has been able to play together properly yet this year, and it's about 80% of the reason we've been so shite.
Welbeck in his whole career has never shown the goal scoring, or assisting, potential of a fit Walcott, and since his first month has stunk out our attack. Cazorla is an average midfielder, the Ox is talented but not close to being as polished in midfield as Wilshere, Ramsey or Arteta, even if the first two go through ups and downs in form. Ozil's obviously been very underwhelming but we play better with him on the pitch. Any one of those players being fit will be a plus.

And I really don't care who's better out of Blind and Arteta, I like both players a lot. Think I voted in a poll on here that he had been your best player after De Gea earlier this season. One can be better than the other without it being meant as a slight.
 
ThierryHenry said:
I mean, fine, this post is just your opinion but it also comes across as pretty delusional. I don't really get it - are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? You don't think that list of players are going to improve a very average Arsenal team?
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No i honestly think on current form of the players you listed none will really kick your season on. Its a bit like Liverpool fans "bigging" Allen up while he was injured, for me your problems lay in defense and DMF (i dont think Wilshere likes playing there and all the players that were listed will hardly fit the bill any better).

Lets be fair your attack isnt average but like us if you haven't got a solid foundation to work with you'll always look average. I guess it is just my opinion but of the players you listed the only one who will make a world of difference is Koscielny, outside of that i wonder if the other players will really drastically change your fortunes.
 
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I think underrating Arsenal is a very dangerous game. We all know the positions they've needed to fill (for what seems like ever), and everyone outside of the Emirates knows they can and will bottle it in the title race until they find a spine from somewhere (or sack Wenger), but Arsenal are a team who when they click can play the best football in the Premier and can destroy anyone. Those top 4 finishes they get every year don't just come by chance, Wengers philosophy might be miopic but when it works it works really, really well and he has the players for it even with those holes in CB, DM and up top.
 
Kentonio said:
I think underrating Arsenal is a very dangerous game. We all know the positions they've needed to fill (for what seems like ever), and everyone outside of the Emirates knows they can and will bottle it in the title race until they find a spine from somewhere (or sack Wenger), but Arsenal are a team who when they click can play the best football in the Premier and can destroy anyone. Those top 4 finishes they get every year don't just come by chance, Wengers philosophy might be miopic but when it works it works really, really well and he has the players for it even with those holes in CB, DM and up top.
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Absolutely. Not sure if Utd fans are in total denial on these forums or what this season. There's a heck of a lot of 'big picture' views they are missing. Deliberately or subconsciously.

Not all fans obviously, I've seen a sprinkle of good posts lost in the forest of noise. But the rest reminds me of...erm...Liverpool fans desperately trying to regain lost glories. :)
 
Kentonio said:
I think underrating Arsenal is a very dangerous game. We all know the positions they've needed to fill (for what seems like ever), and everyone outside of the Emirates knows they can and will bottle it in the title race until they find a spine from somewhere (or sack Wenger), but Arsenal are a team who when they click can play the best football in the Premier and can destroy anyone. Those top 4 finishes they get every year don't just come by chance, Wengers philosophy might be miopic but when it works it works really, really well and he has the players for it even with those holes in CB, DM and up top.
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But it hasn't worked in 10 years...
 
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