I think he'll end up being our best CB by the end of the season.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Man Utd 0:0 Inter
I'd love to know what van Gaal thinks of his ability in midfield, just out of curiosity, since we've seen him play there a bit.
Centre half is his best position in my opinion he has all the qualities to succeed there.. Anyway even though he could be used in midfield, it won't happen.. Sheer lack of numbers back there given we plan on playing 3.
I really like Jones in that midfield terrorisor position. He's good there and makes up for his current lack of discipline as a defender.
However I totally agree with the above. Long term he's a CB, and given how few of those we have, I can't see him in midfield.
Also he's too limited to play CM in a 3-5-2. He would need to be the base of a 3 if he was to play there.
However I totally agree with the above. Long term he's a CB, and given how few of those we have, I can't see him in midfield.
Also he's too limited to play CM in a 3-5-2. He would need to be the base of a 3 if he was to play there.
Yeah, don't think he will be playing in the midfield any time soon.
Has it all to prove this season for me. After a great start to his United career, I feel he's gone backwards. Personally, I'm really not convinced he's as good as we all hoped or thought he was. He's a very blood and thunder defender, and throws himself about far too much. He really needs to add some calmness to his game and learn when to, and when not to dive in to challenges.
The problem is last season. It seems like everything at the club has halted, and those that we were expecting to really kick on and progress have not really had the opportunity to do so. I think we will see a few players this season come to life, Jones being one of them. Agree with the OP, he'll be our best defender this season.
Jones did kick on though, its just it was in midfield where he did a good job and looked more comfortable passing the ball around.
Not particularly. He may have improved as a midfielder but we still were never able to control games with him playing there. We all know his potential lies at centre half and that's where we want to see him, and in that respect due to rotation and injuries we didn't manage to see significant progress.
OH sh!t, I did not mean to start a conversation about Jones in midfield!
It was more like a sideshow curiosity, it's been probably the weirdest debate of the last few years, and I certainly didn't mean to revive it.
I was actually kinda hoping van Gaal thinks it's a silly idea and would dismiss it.
Don't get me wrong, he can do a job there, a great job even, but I get the idea van Gaal wants a lot more from his midfielders than that.
Being in a back 3 will allow him to be more involved in the offense anyway, so it's a good position for him I think.
It was more like a sideshow curiosity, it's been probably the weirdest debate of the last few years, and I certainly didn't mean to revive it.
I was actually kinda hoping van Gaal thinks it's a silly idea and would dismiss it.
Don't get me wrong, he can do a job there, a great job even, but I get the idea van Gaal wants a lot more from his midfielders than that.
Being in a back 3 will allow him to be more involved in the offense anyway, so it's a good position for him I think.
His performances and generally those of a stopper in midfield, dont have a significant effect on controlling games. Their role is to stop the enemies' moves before they get out of hand, put out fires and give the ball to better ball players. Its on someone else to make sure we fluently pass the ball into good areas.
He broke up play and passed the ball better than he had previously, on the ball he looked like a defensive midfielder which is the role he was playing. No longer did he look like a CB being asked to play in midfield.
Then he got injured and didn't come back performing as strongly as he was before injury and I dont believe he was used in midfield much as our plans had moved on. When he played he was used in defence.
I'm not saying we should use him in midfield, but there was clear progression from the player. He was doing a better job than the previous season when he played the role. He didn't stagnate and not improve, he just improved in the role that he was being used most often in until he got injured and his season disrupted
This is his season to show us what kind of player he's going to develop into. He won't be playing in midfield purely because of our CB numbers so for the first time in his United career, he has the perfect chance to stake his claim for a CB position. (this could change depending on signings, of course)
Personally, I think Jones was a poor buy. All well and good to dream that he'll succeed, but the evidence and the track record are just not there.
I think mostly due to us not wanting to use him in CB he hasnt lived up to the price tag. And now we need to play him there and make up for lost time.
At the same time the skills he's learned at right back and in defensive midfield aren't just forgotten once he goes to CB. In some ways it should help him on the ball from the CB position. But he's not the person you think of as a composed ball player, so he might need to learn to relax a little bit and not do everything like he's in a hurry to play the position. There's nothing wrong with his passing for that kind of role, just his mind
At the same time the skills he's learned at right back and in defensive midfield aren't just forgotten once he goes to CB. In some ways it should help him on the ball from the CB position. But he's not the person you think of as a composed ball player, so he might need to learn to relax a little bit and not do everything like he's in a hurry to play the position. There's nothing wrong with his passing for that kind of role, just his mind
Injuries aside he would have developed fine had he just been played consistently at CB.
An excellent post.
playing with 3 CBs should benefit smalling and jones the most, more playing time at their actual position now.
I know what his role was, but that role is pretty much redundant at a side like Man Utd who want to play attacking football. To play a midfielder who's sole job is to defend in a 2 man central midfield is going to hamper any desire to control games and play good football. Carrick does all of what Jones does with exceptional positioning, awareness and reading of the game and he's able to dictate the tempo with his ability on the ball. Unfortunately, his role included more responsibility further up the field last season which didn't suit him, and thus didn't have a season as good as the previous one.
Jones may have improved in that area, but it's still clear that he's a natural centre half as his instincts differ to those of a natural midfielder. Even out and out DM's like De Jong and Makelele are/were aware of what's around them and composed on the ball; Jones isn't, and if he feels pressurised or uncertain he will get rid, instead of making space for himself and laying off a simple ball. It's unfamiliar territory for him, and as a centre half he's a good ball player because he's used to the role and is aware of where pressure may occur, whilst having more time on the ball and all of his passing options pretty much in front of him. If he played Midfield for 10 years he may develop those instincts and become a good defensive midfielder, but with the potential he has at centre half it would be an absolute waste.
Personally, I've never been a fan. He has a lot to prove, hopefully he can this season. He just always looked like he was prone to lapses in concentration or he'd go gung-ho and get injured. The three-back should help him, let's hope he can progress and hit the heights so many expect.
A bit like Smalling (although different type of player) aren't quite where they should be in their development. Both suffering from the John O'shea syndrome. Can you imagine Vidic or Rio playing RB or defensive midfield?
No, but thats also why Jones and Smalling might suit playng in a back 3 better than Rio or Vidic
Sky sports reporting that he's out of tonight's game.
he seems to be match fit. I predict an injury during the game.
Sky Sports is full of sh*t.
Was just thinking that. Maybe they meant Smalling?
They're thinking 'Let's wind up the United fans', so I wanted to call them out.
Amazing how completely unreliable every since media source is.
I know right. Had all my hopes on Sky Sports too.
Well, they're are definitely on the 'more official' side.
Personally I think TV stations and serious papers would do well to stay away from that sort of fantasy journalism, so that when they did say something people could believe it.
At least put all that sort of stuff in a seperate, 'what the tabloids are saying' section so people don't think that the rest of your information is that unreliable.
Man Utd 3:1 Real Madrid
Very impressive today.
Was a real leader in the 2nd half as well with Blackett and Keane on either side.
Was a real leader in the 2nd half as well with Blackett and Keane on either side.
Yeah, good stuff. Tough in the slide tackle and made some vital blocks. Needs to be a bit stronger with his awareness though, he shouldn't need to rely too much on last ditch tackling.
Was great today. Always alert, cleaning the others mess. Won pretty much every ball he went for.
Nice from him to help and teach the younger CBs coming through the ranks. He looked like the captain back there. (screaming on them, but with a confident and commanding tone, and re comforting at the same time)
not like the scenes of Cleverley moving his arms and screaming like a girl every time he lost the ball (not captain material here...)...
Nice from him to help and teach the younger CBs coming through the ranks. He looked like the captain back there. (screaming on them, but with a confident and commanding tone, and re comforting at the same time)
not like the scenes of Cleverley moving his arms and screaming like a girl every time he lost the ball (not captain material here...)...
Like him as the centre of those back three. Play him there every week and he'll flourish. Nailed on to be the next club captain after this one IMO.
Jones and Evans will be the heart of our defense this season. It is all up to Smalling to make the third CB spot his now.
Yup, although Blackett is a surprise contender to that #3 spot.
Blackett and Keane plus Potential signings will be his contenders but I think right now Smalling should be seen as the main contender for the third CB spot.
Blackett isn't ready yet, lets players get in behind far too easily. Fantastic on the ball though, he pinged a 50 yard ball over the top to Rooney to absolute perfection in the second half.
Commanding today, especially in the second half where he acted as sweeper on more than one occasion when Cleverley got caught out.
I think he showed that RCB is much more optimal spot for him than CCB is. Although some of his challenges were good, he still lacks positional sense, but with his speed and his acceleration, reaction he could we be very good RCB.
United have 3 very good CB's, the only problem is keeping them injury free!
I'd even be tempted to give one of them the captains armband to see if that extra responsibility could some how have a positive effect on there injury luck.
Strange idea, but sometimes the mind is the bigger problem, see Valemcia post leg break.
I'd even be tempted to give one of them the captains armband to see if that extra responsibility could some how have a positive effect on there injury luck.
Strange idea, but sometimes the mind is the bigger problem, see Valemcia post leg break.
I don't even think Valencia's is a good example, he was fantastic when he made his comeback, but then became what he is today the season after. Cleverley is more apt.