Of course, the real news of today is that Joey Barton is going on Question Time.
Politics at Westminster | BREAKING: UKIP
- Thread starter Team Brian GB
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
This has been the maddest, most surreal year ever.
They've only really got such a large share because they've nicked filled the Lib Dems void.
It's a very odd situation - I'm anti-UKIP policy, but I am so, so pro anything that will make a dent to mainstream politics.
People being encouraged to demonise immigrants is not a price worth paying.
I don't think people are being actively encouraged to do that, to be honest. I just feel a lot of their voters do do that.
It doesn't matter whether they are being "actively encouraged" UKIP are stirring things up and the result is more anti-immigrant sentiment.
They're talking about immigration. That's fair enough - we're living in an immigration crisis. It's most certainly a fair topic to discuss.
They're talking shite about immigration, though. If they were being honest, that would be a fair excuse. They aren't.
The main issue I have with UKIP (and most of the other silly, fringe parties) is that they put together a vague list of suggestions of what people want to hear, comfortable in the knowledge that they will never get into power and therefore will never have to deal with the realities of any of their ridiculous suggestions. To this end people without forethought will lay a few votes on them because they agree with the idealised views they spout (with precious little grounding in reality).
In theory this'd be a great way for people to put pressure on the mainstream parties, because losing voters to UKIP/Green/Whatever would be well countered by shifting policies to pull those voters back but in practice the main "protest vote" groups are all fecking mental, no sensible party would ever move to emulate them so, realistically, all people like UKIP are doing is getting the fecking way. Good God they irritate me.
In theory this'd be a great way for people to put pressure on the mainstream parties, because losing voters to UKIP/Green/Whatever would be well countered by shifting policies to pull those voters back but in practice the main "protest vote" groups are all fecking mental, no sensible party would ever move to emulate them so, realistically, all people like UKIP are doing is getting the fecking way. Good God they irritate me.
They are not talking about immigration, they are making up facts and scare mongering about immigration.
Name one.
Come on, don't play dumb. The stupid thing is, the NHS and housing especially, are at crisis points for a lot of the country and immigration is one of the factors that could help ease the problems. I'm not saying that it's all immigrations fault, but if one were to make an argument against immigration (or reducing it/controlling it more) there are some legitimate reasons for doing so. Unfortunately UKIP just completely bypass all that with their hyperbole.
"Majority of kids in East London don't speak English" - when by the standards of "not speaking English", his own children would fall into that bracket. There is a bit of a difference between English as a second language and not speaking English you'd think.
Where's the crisis?
The entirety of their poster campaign was factually incorrect immigration scare mongering
There was that 75% of our laws being made in europe (reality, about 15%). There were the threats of millions of romanians and bulgarians arriving (reality, numbers stayed vaguely constant, maybe dropped). I could go on if I could be arsed.
There is no immigration crisis. Immigration has been essential for the uk.
Haha, really? One lie? ok
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...rictions-lifted-at-start-of-year-9367046.html
The point I am trying to make is that UKIP are making some exaggerated points about immigration. They like to say things like 29m Romanians and Bulgarians could come to this country. Obviously, nowhere near that many will, but technically, they're correct.
They know what they're doing, but the concerns about immigration are so genuine.
You can't just expect schools, doctors' surgeries and hospitals to get dangerously overcrowded and expect people not to worry about immigration. It's foolish.
The elephant in the room here is clearly the Labour party's failings. That's the anger. Everyone likes to blame UKIP for stirring up hate but it's Labour what did it.
They know what they're doing, but the concerns about immigration are so genuine.
You can't just expect schools, doctors' surgeries and hospitals to get dangerously overcrowded and expect people not to worry about immigration. It's foolish.
The elephant in the room here is clearly the Labour party's failings. That's the anger. Everyone likes to blame UKIP for stirring up hate but it's Labour what did it.
Shut up alastair, you dope.
When proven wrong revert back to blaming Labour.
I do agree Labour needs to take a look at itself. Miliband needs to stop pandering to UKIP dog whilstled most likely racist voters and actually stand up for some decent values.
I do agree Labour needs to take a look at itself. Miliband needs to stop pandering to UKIP dog whilstled most likely racist voters and actually stand up for some decent values.
alastairI have literally zero concerns about immigration.
He needs to feck off altogether and let someone capable of leading a political party take over. He has neither the charisma or presence to lead. Thankfully we elect the entire party, so his personal failings shouldn't be too much of an issue, but Labour need a proper leader.
It's amazing how people just refuse to look at the evidence.
It's the cult of Labour. It destroys working class people and brainwashes them too.
UKIP are an irrelevance, really. It's the 2000-2010 years that will be looked at as pivotal in this story.
It's the cult of Labour. It destroys working class people and brainwashes them too.
UKIP are an irrelevance, really. It's the 2000-2010 years that will be looked at as pivotal in this story.
Good for you. You should be a politician.
The kind of people who have no concerns about immigration tend to be middle class, studenty types.
The kind of people who take low paid jobs, who put their kids through state schools, who use the NHS - they care about immigration.
The kind of people who take low paid jobs, who put their kids through state schools, who use the NHS - they care about immigration.
I'm glad that's been settled at least.
The issue is that so many here want to vote Labour but they're not actually very sure why they're doing it.
This applies to so many of their voters I know - "I vote Labour." "Why?" "I just do, really."
This applies to so many of their voters I know - "I vote Labour." "Why?" "I just do, really."
You are aware of course that economic consensus is by-and-large that immigration probably has a net beneficial impact on wages and employment.
Maybe you ought to point this out rather than getting consistently proven wrong in this thread.
I think you'll find just as many who know exactly why they're voting Labour.
You'll find swaths of people who vote Tory because mummy and daddy did as well. The same is true of most partisan voters.
I remember Rednev, on this very forum, speaking from a left-wing perspective, asking the question of why the left refuse to accept, despite all the evidence, that immigration has caused a depression in wages.
I would ask it again here. Provide your evidence. And I don't want a Guardian flowchart.
How am I getting proven wrong? I'm merely stating that UKIP's mean words are insignificant when put up against Labour's record.
Immigration in the right way is a wonderful thing. Surely that's a given.
However immigration at the unofficial levels we are seeing and the reaction to it from all sides is the danger.
However immigration at the unofficial levels we are seeing and the reaction to it from all sides is the danger.
That's a given. I love immigration. It's benefitted me hugely.
But then I'm middle class. I don't compete with immigrants for jobs. I don't have kids to worry about.
As far as I'm aware, the studies have broadly shown that immigration has slightly depressed wages of low earners and slightly increased wages of higher earners. In my opinion this is largely down to the lack of strong unions to protect low paid workers nowadays.
You got proven wrong by stating that UKIP aren't making up facts or scaremongering when they are. I don't think "exaggerating" really counts as a good excuse.
Unfortunately I'm in the thick of it. Maybe that's why I'm able to see why so many people I know have voted ukip. I myself didn't and never would, but the very sad fact that I have to sometimes consider a trip to the local wickes carpark just to get the 'staff' to compete fairly is a very real issue.
The main thing is it's the way the issue is dealt with that leads people to vote for this lot, especially if those concerns are raised and the reactions to them. As I said earlier it's a vicious circle.