[Cantonagotmehere]

Dalot was immense, MOTM. Just goes to show you can’t pass early judgments on young players, so those doubting Sancho may want to rethink their sweeping conclusions of him.

No kidding. I never thought he would be able to defend like that a year or so ago. He seemed lazy to me and would not even hustle back when beaten. So glad to see him takeoff. I for sure was wrong about him at the time.

 

[georgipep]

Okay, I'll not argue against that, but my point pertained mainly to the ability of the CBs to move the ball more quickly and effectively up to the midfielders when playing out from the back. And I do think Martinez and Varane showed a marked improvement in that even before Casemiro began starting regularly. Lindelof's managed it when playing with Martinez too. I also think, on general impressions, they did better controlling the play defensively than we do with Maguire, but I don't have the metrics to back that up - so if you do and they say otherwise, I'll not dispute that.

Who knows if moving Maguire on for serious money (40-50m) would be possible, but if it is, I think it's hard to argue that we shouldn't. If we can't, the issue of whether he can really continue as captain will quickly become a pressing one. It can't be much of a plus for him either, as things stand. It just puts his relative failure into relief.

I too hope he'll manage to rebuild his confidence and find a way to contribute within his means.

I agree with both things you say here:
1. Martinez is significantly better at moving the ball quickly and breaking lines.
2. We should look to recoup at least 50% of the amount we paid for Maguire and if we get such an offer, we should accept it and not look back.

I really hope the club is ready to become more pragmatic with transfers, and not remain stuck in "giving chances" and "protecting value".

 

[Strootman's Finger]

Might be a bit random to bring it up now, because we ended up winning the game, but how mental was it not to give Scamacca a second yellow for booting Martinez in the head? You could almost see it from Kavanagh's body language, that he knew it should be yellow, but he didn't want to give a second for that. It was cowardly refereeing, and I'm surprised more hasn't been made of it. That was a yellow all day, every day.

I also just remembered that this was the same waste of space that disallowed Cavani's goal against Spurs after McTominay lightly brushed Son's cheek. What a cnut.

Moyes scrambling to sub him right after suggests they knew they got away with one.

 

[The Brown Bull]

I think the last 20 minutes of hanging on can be explained for two reasons. One, we ran out of gas because of the busy schedule the past 3 weeks. Two, McFred were playing.

We need another midfielder and CF in January if we are going to compete on many fronts.

Agree. Casemiro is top class so is Eriksen but I think we are still lacking something in the middle .

 

[bosskeano]

ETH full of praise fro Casemiro

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...following-man-utd-vs-west-ham-31-october-2022

 

[DSG]

Every single one of our defenders did extremely well (including De Gea of course)

Maguire made some big defensive tackles/blocks there. Shaw's contribution I feel is massively overlooked, especially by Neville

Seems a lot are saying Maguire was excellent…. I thought he looked really rusty in his passing, had several giveaways and needed a bit better chemistry with Lisandro and Casemiro. Defending was fine, positioning was fine. Almost hung Lisandro out to dry with a pass…

I prefer Lindelof at this point. He’s better with the ball, more agile and has more pace.

Dalot was legitimately excellent defensively. I was very critical of Dalot last season and early on this season. What a turnaround. Impressed with Ten Hag’s coaching and credit to Dalot for his huge improvement.

 

[peridigm]

Seems a lot are saying Maguire was excellent…. I thought he looked really rusty in his passing, had several giveaways and needed a bit better chemistry with Lisandro and Casemiro. Defending was fine, positioning was fine. Almost hung Lisandro out to dry with a pass…

I prefer Lindelof at this point. He’s better with the ball, more agile and has more pace.

Dalot was legitimately excellent defensively. I was very critical of Dalot last season and early on this season. What a turnaround. Impressed with Ten Hag’s coaching and credit to Dalot for his huge improvement.

Dalot has been like a new signing. If AWB was fit, he still wouldn't be playing. AWB and Maguire next to each other would be a calamity. I agree regarding Lindelof. He's more like Varane and is a better replacement Varane is out. He would most likely have played if he wasn't ill.

 

[Strelok]

Might be a bit random to bring it up now, because we ended up winning the game, but how mental was it not to give Scamacca a second yellow for booting Martinez in the head? You could almost see it from Kavanagh's body language, that he knew it should be yellow, but he didn't want to give a second for that. It was cowardly refereeing, and I'm surprised more hasn't been made of it. That was a yellow all day, every day.

I also just remembered that this was the same waste of space that disallowed Cavani's goal against Spurs after McTominay lightly brushed Son's cheek. What a cnut.

Agree on the yellow card. Nani got a red for much less.

 

[Todd]

Stop gap til summer or long term signing

Probably a stop gap signing to add enough goals to ensure that we get top 4.

Then in the summer, if we've got the prospect of CL football we'll hopefully be able to attract a top striker.

I don't know how everyone else feels about it but I'd take Harry Kane in a heartbeat.

 

[USREDEVIL]

First half was pretty good, just needed a little more quality to make more clear cut chances. Great header by Rashford. Second half was pretty bad. Everyone lost their passing boots including Casameiro. Then for the last 20 minutes West Ham totally dominated and the only thing that kept the 1-0 win was De Gea, Dalot and Martinez.

Maguire was pretty poor in the first half, looked slow, caught out of position, looked of the pace. Second half was better but overall, need to put Lindelof back in for now.

 

[Maticmaker]

First half was pretty good, just needed a little more quality to make more clear cut chances. Great header by Rashford. Second half was pretty bad. Everyone lost their passing boots including Casameiro. Then for the last 20 minutes West Ham totally dominated and the only thing that kept the 1-0 win was De Gea, Dalot and Martinez.

Maguire was pretty poor in the first half, looked slow, caught out of position, looked of the pace. Second half was better but overall, need to put Lindelof back in for now.

This, spot on!

 

[Nobby style]

Moyes scrambling to sub him right after suggests they knew they got away with one.

Erm, you mean Moyes subbing him off for Antonio, in a brilliant move, which changed the complexion of the game and gave the advantage to West ham.

 

[DJ_21]

Probably a stop gap signing to add enough goals to ensure that we get top 4.

Then in the summer, if we've got the prospect of CL football we'll hopefully be able to attract a top striker.

I don't know how everyone else feels about it but I'd take Harry Kane in a heartbeat.

Wouldn’t pay 100m for him though and that’s what they’ll want. I always thought if he was gonna move he’d of moved by now a few seasons ago. Would improve us massively though and he’s added assist to his game aswell.

 

[Strootman's Finger]

Erm, you mean Moyes subbing him off for Antonio, in a brilliant move, which changed the complexion of the game and gave the advantage to West ham.

You're giving moyes too much credit

 

[lex talionis]

Bruno's booking means he will miss a game and I like that. I think he's the last of the undroppables but gives the ball away all the time ans his shooting has been awful.

DvB will get a chance to show us something different.

Villa is the perfect opponent for Van De Beek to get his first start of the season against. We've done well enough this season in light of the circumstances, but Donny seems a better option to go with against an overmatched bus parker like Villa than Bruno, who's the better player overall but excels in the open field, not in tight spaces, where Donny does excel.

 

[glasgow 21]

Enjoy the the 3 points. Selective memory from SAF days where there were loads of these results without constant social media ripping the players who didn't perform. Look at spurs at the weekend injury time win. One more win and we are in the hunt big time for top 4 which is the goal this year

 

[Todd]

Wouldn’t pay 100m for him though and that’s what they’ll want. I always thought if he was gonna move he’d of moved by now a few seasons ago. Would improve us massively though and he’s added assist to his game aswell.

We should pay whatever they want for him, United can basically write blank checks and at this point we're only a couple players away from truly competing for the league.

Harry Kane is only 29 and barring injury he probably has another 100 EPL goals in him. Would love to see him become the Premier League's all-time leading scorer while helping to win us trophies.

 

[Utd heap]

The vibe in the ground when Maguire has the ball is bordering on poisonous. Him staying is probably untenable sadly.

 

[David Bartley]

First match in ages absolutely no pressing and we all know the reason why.

And, great player though he was, last night he was fluffing chances he once would have buried, or at least made the keeper work to save. Even last season. Shame to see him declining like this in slow motion in front of us. He should leave in January.

 

[AlPistacho]

The vibe in the ground when Maguire has the ball is bordering on poisonous. Him staying is probably untenable sadly.

Thought he was good defensively yesterday, but in his absence just highlighted how world class Varane is and just adds something extra to the team defensively, as a leader and footballing wise.

 

[DJ_21]

We should pay whatever they want for him, United can basically write blank checks and at this point we're only a couple players away from truly competing for the league.

Harry Kane is only 29 and barring injury he probably has another 100 EPL goals in him. Would love to see him become the Premier League's all-time leading scorer while helping to win us trophies.

Well we’ can’t write blank checks can we. If we could then I’d say we go for mbappe everyday of the week. No point spending big bucks on people at the top end of there career when we could sign a younger superstar.

 

[Shark]

The vibe in the ground when Maguire has the ball is bordering on poisonous. Him staying is probably untenable sadly.

He's entered that Fellaini territory where fans just associate him with mediocre times. Being catastrophic at the back and crap in general with him involved in most of it. There's no coming back for him.

 

[AlPistacho]

And, great player though he was, last night he was fluffing chances he once would have buried, or at least made the keeper work to save. Even last season. Shame to see him declining like this in slow motion in front of us. He should leave in January.

Yeah. I think the style we play just exacerbates his attributes that have naturally declined with age.

Leave or accept a sub role where he might still be useful in the final leg of the season.

 

[Utd heap]

He's entered that Fellaini territory where fans just associate him with mediocre times. Being catastrophic at the back and crap in general with him involved in most of it. There's no coming back for him.

Fellaini isn't a bad shout, there are some similarities.

I've rated both at times during their Utd career, ultimately neither the right fit for where we want to be.

 

[AlPistacho]

Villa is the perfect opponent for Van De Beek to get his first start of the season against. We've done well enough this season in light of the circumstances, but Donny seems a better option to go with against an overmatched bus parker like Villa than Bruno, who's the better player overall but excels in the open field, not in tight spaces, where Donny does excel.

I think there’ll be a fan raffle to start Vs Villa before DVB gets to start.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Not at the game but, noticed watching there was one particular period we were keeping the ball fine but, could not find an opening to play in between the lines to progress the ball and crowd got impatient and maybe it was Martinez then tried to force something that put us in bit of trouble.

The crowd I think much like so many reactions on here about the match today are expecting full time slick quick football due to the progress we've been making. But, we need to all realize that we will have period of inconsistency during this season and maybe even into next. Being able to have that defending as a team is a huge huge positive to take when we are not at the best with the ball or heck some times you know, the other team might actually also play their part as well . The players need to also realize that, especially at the end when quite a few tried to force things when the better option at the 88th minute, when we have been under pressure is to just keep the ball. Be a bit smarter with the ball once the game starts getting out of our hand, then once we establish a grasp, then go back to the more intricate passes.

Yeah that's exactly my thinking. The players are obviously feeding off the crowd and vice versa, especially as we've brought back a sense of pride and are playing good stuff. However, as hard as it seems (after the PTSD-inducing seasons we've had), the crowd has got to get accustomed to the patient football we're playing. I'd expect more games like this and against Newcastle because we are not going to over-commit and get caught out, like so many times in the past.

I've said it before but we are still vulnerable in the middle and in transition. We're holding onto the ball, recycling back to deep, playing short corners etc and not engaging in too many 1 vs 1 duels/take ons because it makes us susceptible defensively if we lose it. I personally think it's a smart conscious decision/method when you take into account the energy needed to be playing box-to-box, the hard running and then not to mention our playing personnel in terms of form and fitness. Our fans need to be on board and recognise this.

 

[sparx99]

Erm, you mean Moyes subbing him off for Antonio, in a brilliant move, which changed the complexion of the game and gave the advantage to West ham.

Wasn’t it said in commentary that the other player coming off changed. The original intention was two up front.

 

[Redbandito]

I agree with the second poster. Don’t get me wrong, i rated Maguire at 8/10 today, because he was instrumental to getting us 3 points. In my view though, he had a game of two «halves». When we were the best team, for the first 60-70 minutes at least, he was not very good. His passing was average at best, and he always invited pressure when on the ball, slowing down our play, and bringing some uncertainty to the back line.
However, when we were not the best team, he was probably our best player. He won the aerial duels, blocked shot attempts, made good tackles etc. I don’t see a way for him back to the starting 11 when Varane is fit. I don’t know if its his mentality, or something else, but i doubt its gonna work out for him here. I think both parties are better off if we go our separate ways.

totally agree.

Seems a lot are saying Maguire was excellent…. I thought he looked really rusty in his passing, had several giveaways and needed a bit better chemistry with Lisandro and Casemiro. Defending was fine, positioning was fine. Almost hung Lisandro out to dry with a pass…

I prefer Lindelof at this point. He’s better with the ball, more agile and has more pace.

These are not mutually exclusive propositions. I thought Maguire had a good game, but I’d still prefer Lindelof (and of course, Varane). He didn’t have a perfect game, and he was not aggressive with the ball at his feet, but he was solid and he had some massive defensive plays to preserve the clean sheet. Those stating Maguire prevented us from playing a high line in the first half are simply wrong. Our back line pushed up to 5-10 yards inside WH’s half when we possessed the ball. Everyone had a couple bad passes in that game. Lisandro almost got us countered in the first half, passing a ball directly to their right winger at midfield, and another at the beginning of the second half. Eriksen had a terrible giveaway a couple mins after the one in the first half. Maguire doesn’t seem to want much of the ball, and he was probably the least impressive of the defenders, but given how well the defense played for the first 85 mins, I think Maguire deserved at least a 7 for his performance. But then, I thought Shaw, Martinez and Dalot were all 8’s.

 

[red_sun]

Slightly off-topic: I stayed after the game and saw some of the players walk to the coach [it was my first time at Old Trafford].
It seems that someone hurled abuse at Rashford (I have it on video). I don't really want to share it, but it was uncomfortable and Marcus looked pretty annoyed.
I can't really tell what was said, but his facial expression and pointing at someone in the crowd said a lot.
Anyone know what happened?

 

[lex talionis]

Slightly off-topic: I stayed after the game and saw some of the players walk to the coach [it was my first time at Old Trafford].
It seems that someone hurled abuse at Rashford (I have it on video). I don't really want to share it, but it was uncomfortable and Marcus looked pretty annoyed.
I can't really tell what was said, but his facial expression and pointing at someone in the crowd said a lot.
Anyone know what happened?

This is the first I'm reading about it. Pretty fukked up, as I'll take your post as fact.

 

[Maticmaker]

The vibe in the ground when Maguire has the ball is bordering on poisonous. Him staying is probably untenable sadly.

Was at the match, I thought Maguire got a good reception from 'Stretford end', and there were a few positive chants for him during the game. He still has limitations, as shown when compared with Varane, but he still can do a job for us, he needs his confidence building and playing alongside Martinez it should improve.

 

[Betson]

Big 3 pts, the performance especially 2nd half was very nervy reflecting that the team knew this was a big 3 pts as well.

Important now to back it up V Villa and Fulham before the WC break.

 

[redmanx]

Seems a lot are saying Maguire was excellent…. I thought he looked really rusty in his passing, had several giveaways and needed a bit better chemistry with Lisandro and Casemiro. Defending was fine, positioning was fine. Almost hung Lisandro out to dry with a pass…

I prefer Lindelof at this point. He’s better with the ball, more agile and has more pace.

Dalot was legitimately excellent defensively. I was very critical of Dalot last season and early on this season. What a turnaround. Impressed with Ten Hag’s coaching and credit to Dalot for his huge improvement.

Maguire did OK, but Dalot, Shaw and Martinez were awesome and once Varane is fit he will surely resume alongside them and Maguire should revert to the back of the queue behind Lindelof.

 

[redmanx]

Was at the match, I thought Maguire got a good reception from 'Stretford end', and there were a few positive chants for him during the game. He still has limitations, as shown when compared with Varane, but he still can do a job for us, he needs his confidence building and playing alongside Martinez it should improve.

Martinez and Varane should be the first choice CBs and Maguire should be no more than a back up.

 

[redmanx]

totally agree.


These are not mutually exclusive propositions. I thought Maguire had a good game, but I’d still prefer Lindelof (and of course, Varane). He didn’t have a perfect game, and he was not aggressive with the ball at his feet, but he was solid and he had some massive defensive plays to preserve the clean sheet. Those stating Maguire prevented us from playing a high line in the first half are simply wrong. Our back line pushed up to 5-10 yards inside WH’s half when we possessed the ball. Everyone had a couple bad passes in that game. Lisandro almost got us countered in the first half, passing a ball directly to their right winger at midfield, and another at the beginning of the second half. Eriksen had a terrible giveaway a couple mins after the one in the first half. Maguire doesn’t seem to want much of the ball, and he was probably the least impressive of the defenders, but given how well the defense played for the first 85 mins, I think Maguire deserved at least a 7 for his performance. But then, I thought Shaw, Martinez and Dalot were all 8’s.

Giving the ball away like we do will end up with us being punished again; its just sloppy and careless and will be our downfall.

 

[croadyman]

Wouldn’t pay 100m for him though and that’s what they’ll want. I always thought if he was gonna move he’d of moved by now a few seasons ago. Would improve us massively though and he’s added assist to his game aswell.

Yeah Spurs would demand that sort of figure for him so think it's a non starter

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

we strangely gave up the midfield initiative in second half. But most have assumed it was a Maguire cause

 

[Maticmaker]

Martinez and Varane should be the first choice CBs and Maguire should be no more than a back up.

They will be, but Varane will never complete a full season, its why RM let him go, so we need the best backup with Martinez.

 

[DJ_21]

They will be, but Varane will never complete a full season, its why RM let him go, so we need the best backup with Martinez.

Probably lindelof at the minute. I think next season we sell Bailly. Bring in another top CB who’ll be a starter/rotation with Varane.

 

[Maticmaker]

Probably lindelof at the minute. I think next season we sell Bailly. Bring in another top CB who’ll be a starter/rotation with Varane.

I like Lindelof, especially at bringing the ball out, but if he had been playing against West Ham, we might well have lost, (despite DeGea's great saves) ... Lindy gets 'bullied' too easily for me.