Youre talking about fitness here. Before you said that Ferdinand wasnt englands best CB. Fitness and actual ability are two entirely different things.
What kind of stupid comment is that?
Rio Ferdinand
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Youre talking about fitness here. Before you said that Ferdinand wasnt englands best CB. Fitness and actual ability are two entirely different things.
What kind of stupid comment is that?
Do think you're all being more than a little biased here lads, is all.
He will be destroyed against France.Why is Terry so highly rated? He's slow and prone to seriously feck up.
rio was probably our best player alongside carrick in that game.
Maybe Fergie is right that he can't play in a run of games in a tight period, but if Fergie was picking a squad to take to the Euros, would he still take Rio regardless?
Everytime he would.
Only he knows. Would Rio have played as many games as he did this season had Vidic been fit?
Cahill and Lescott aren't in the same league as Rio.
Lescott has had an excellent season compared to his last, but he's still nowhere near as good as Ferdinand. Cahill is nothing more than an average defender, he's been okay, nothing more than that.
Yes. Of course.
Yes, it was Evans who was the one that would've played less games. There would have been no reason for Rio not to play the games he was in.
Cahill's good, c'mon. Well I'm sure Hodgson has reason to believe that Rio's fitness is a liability and he's not going.
I'm unsure of that.
Lescott this season has probably been as good as Rio, if not better than him, so it's a bit of an exaggerration to say he's not in the same league as him in my opinion.
No I doubt he would have but he would still be picked for the big games. England aren't so blessed with top class centre backs that we can afford to leave a player of Rio's quality at home IMO.
It will be a huge surprise if we manage to play more than 4 games at the tournament anyway. Rio could manage at least 2 group games.
Maybe Hodgson has decided he's not going to take any players that have doubts over their fitness.
Given what has happened in recent tournaments (taking crocked players and hoping they recover sufficiently), if this is the case he should be commended in my opinion.
Given what has happened in recent tournaments (taking crocked players and hoping they recover sufficiently), if this is the case he should be commended in my opinion.
Depending on Terry to play in every game is a big risk to take, 3 games in 8 days will take a lot out of him. I can't think of a better or a more experienced English centre back to have as back up than Rio & that's why I think he should have been brought.
Yeah I agree with you that he has fitness concerns, just disagreeing that those two are as nearly as good as Rio.
It's obvious that if he was guaranteed to be fit then Hodgson would choose him, because he is definitely Englands best centre back. I think people are disagreeing with the decision because he's shown signs that he could cope with the Euros, so it seems stupid not to take him.
I don't give a shite, it's good for United.
I was surprised at people's reaction here, contrary to what people might believe, Rio hasn't had a great season, he's top quality on his day, yes, but at his age with fitness concerns, and sufficient cover in his position, it makes sense to not bring him.
I was surprised at people's reaction here, contrary to what people might believe, Rio hasn't had a great season, he's top quality on his day, yes, but at his age with fitness concerns, and sufficient cover in his position, it makes sense to not bring him.
Rio has had a great season, he's actually been flying under the radar, quite Carrickesque actually
He isn't in the same league as him, simple fact. Ferdinand is probably the best centre half of the last twenty years, certainly in the Premiership. I'd rank him alongside Nesta in the whole of Europe. His positional sense and reading of the game is unmatched.
Lescott is a decent/good defender who has had, as I said, 'an excellent season'. Just because he's in form doesn't make him as good as Ferdinand.
If Rio's not going it has to be for fitness reasons and fitness reasons alone.
Suggesting that Lescott and Cahill are players of anything remotely close to the same calibre as Rio Ferdinand is just nothing short of crazy. Cahill has been a liabilty almost every time I've seen him play, both for Chelsea and England. Lescott, from what I've seen this season, has been better, but still nowhere close to Rio Ferdinand.
And Terry will have to get his studs checked if England are to be in with a chance of not slipping out during the group stages, seeing as this means he'll probably play.
Suggesting that Lescott and Cahill are players of anything remotely close to the same calibre as Rio Ferdinand is just nothing short of crazy. Cahill has been a liabilty almost every time I've seen him play, both for Chelsea and England. Lescott, from what I've seen this season, has been better, but still nowhere close to Rio Ferdinand.
And Terry will have to get his studs checked if England are to be in with a chance of not slipping out during the group stages, seeing as this means he'll probably play.
The pedestal that you lot put Rio on - oh my.
That is a bit too extreme. He's not the best in the past 20 years when you consider that players like Nesta, Maldini etc have been playing the game. For all his ability, he wasn't as good as them.
I'm not even sure about him being the best in the Premier League. Top 3 yes, but I'd have Adams at his peak and Vidic ahead of him if I'm being honest.
Plus, that's then, not now. Ferdinand is still a very good defender and has proven that in the second half of this season, however he's not the world class one he used to be back around 2008 time. I don't think that can be denied. He's probably a bit better than Lescott, but when you take into account his fitness problems, I'd possibly have Lescott as my first CB ahead of him.
I'm not even sure about him being the best in the Premier League. Top 3 yes, but I'd have Adams at his peak and Vidic ahead of him if I'm being honest.
Plus, that's then, not now. Ferdinand is still a very good defender and has proven that in the second half of this season, however he's not the world class one he used to be back around 2008 time. I don't think that can be denied. He's probably a bit better than Lescott, but when you take into account his fitness problems, I'd possibly have Lescott as my first CB ahead of him.
I think Roy has decided that for the good of the camp it was not possible to take both Rio and Terry. So the decision was which one to take, and he is far more likely to get 3 games out of Terry, hence, in that regard I believe it is fitness reasons.
I still believe though that without the Terry issue Ferdinand would be on the plane and if that is the case it is grossly unfair as Rio has done nothing wrong.
It's an extremely difficult situation for Roy, in all fairness. It's a no-win. The media shitstorm would have been worse had it been Terry omitted whilst at least with Rio he can point to some genuine fitness concerns.
Still, Terry has made errors for England in major tournaments which seemingly go unnoticed in some quarters and if he does so again this decision will irk me even more.
I still believe though that without the Terry issue Ferdinand would be on the plane and if that is the case it is grossly unfair as Rio has done nothing wrong.
It's an extremely difficult situation for Roy, in all fairness. It's a no-win. The media shitstorm would have been worse had it been Terry omitted whilst at least with Rio he can point to some genuine fitness concerns.
Still, Terry has made errors for England in major tournaments which seemingly go unnoticed in some quarters and if he does so again this decision will irk me even more.
Without starting a Vidic/Rio debate, quick question. Do England have 4 better centre backs than Ferdinand? Even the current version of Rio who is admittedly past his peak?
If Smalling was fit you could possibly make an argument for taking Terry, Cahill, Lescott, Smalling as Smalling would add more options but in his absence I'm struggling...
Hasn't Rio played in 38 games this season, and Terry only 30?
EDIT: Nope, just checked that. Terry has played more.
EDIT: Nope, just checked that. Terry has played more.
This is what I think is bollocks, Terry is a national disgrace. Everyone is ashamed of him and if you don't want to leave him out on "innocent until proven guilty" grounds then leave him out on the basis of his previous cuntisms. According to reports and rumours there were very few siding with Terry over Ferdinand in the England camp which shows Terry's popularity.
Terry should never "represent" this country again. If you then decide to leave Ferdiand out on fitness or form so be it but it should have nothing to do with keeping Terry happy.
Is Rio on another planet to the rest of those players - especially on current form? Cause that what it sounds like.
I think Lescott has had the best season, and I don't think that Terry has had much of a worse (if at all) season than Rio either. So if we're going with Lescott and Terry as starters, what do you bring Rio for - to warm the bench?
I think the choice has boiled down to Terry vs Rio (as you mentioned), and again I don't think Terry is that inferior to Rio, least not to the levels that some make out on here.
You can't be serious. Your posts on Vidic are cringeworthy.
Listen, everything I read in the Rio threads, and the Evans threads is worse than what I have said about Vidic. If you don't believe me, go and find me proof of what posts were cringeworthy.
If Hodgson wants to be "fair" and pick only players that helped England qualify then he's right to leave Rio out.
Plus I guess with Cahill and Terry playing regularly for Chelsea there's a bit of a partnership developing there. Infact 3 out of the likely 4 starting in the back 4 play for Chelsea.
Plus I guess with Cahill and Terry playing regularly for Chelsea there's a bit of a partnership developing there. Infact 3 out of the likely 4 starting in the back 4 play for Chelsea.
I suppose one of the things to remember is that he hasn't been dropped as such. He hasn't appeared in an England squad since WC 2010, if one of the journos on the Sunday Supplement is to believed.
Very true - and more than likely a key reason in his selection.
Jagielka has had a good season. Cahill is ok, nothing special. Leavitt is better. However I would not play Rio and Terry together both are past their bests and its time to invest in the youth players.
Rio should stop playing for England to prolong his United career.
Rio should stop playing for England to prolong his United career.
I thought you were taking the piss out of yourself. No? Carry on up the Khyber.
No Rio is not on a different planet to those players on current form, I didn't suggest that. I even said you could make an argument for leaving him behind in favour of Terry, Cahill, Lescott, Smalling. I agree that Lescott has had a great season and he also impressed against Spain. Terry and Cahill is a growing partnership also. My question was, with Smalling out, who else is there that belongs in that squad ahead of Rio?
I said the only one who was arguably better was Nesta, so not sure why you've mentioned him. I don't think there is much between them either way. Malidini was primarily a left back, even though he moved to centre back he'll always be regarded as a better left back, which he was. I think he was better than Puyol, Cannavaro, Lucio, Stam, Campbell, Desailly etc. But that's just my opinion, obviously we are talking fine margins. Also depends on what type of defender you prefer, so there is a huge element of subjectivity to it.
If you've got him top 3 of the Prem, then you can't balk at my suggestion that he's the best. We are hardly worlds apart, just a slightly different opinion. I think he was better than Vidic in his prime, no doubt theres been a thread on this before though on the caf.
I'm not saying you specifically did, the only reason I made that comment is because so many people think Rio is on a pedestal that none other around him can match - and that's not correct.
If we're taking out Terry, Cahill, Lescott and Smalling? No one. I'm not even against Rio being there, my 'beef' is with some of the comments that actually belittle the other players massively.
I agree. I think it was always going to be the case that one of them was left behind and was hoping Roy would ditch Terry to set the right example and create a better group in the England camp but it seems he has gone the other way.