Every comment seems to be well this always happens, it is impossible to tell etc...
Good job there are people who do find out the answers or at least are willing to try.
It puts massive context on Russia's actions if it's true.
Russia Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Every comment seems to be well this always happens, it is impossible to tell etc...
Good job there are people who do find out the answers or at least are willing to try.
It puts massive context on Russia's actions if it's true.
Im just saying the propaganda from both sides and the lack of proper unbiased investigative journalism makes it extremely hard to know what to believe.
Yeah, I know what you mean, it is frustrating to the think that things like this are still happening, even more so to think your own Government could be complicit.
Yes we do have very different viewpoints as I don't consider fascism to be 'unpleasant' but extremely dangerous.
Estonian foreign minister Urmas Paet tells EU's Cathy Ashton about claim that provocateurs were behind Maidan killings
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/05/ukraine-bugged-call-catherine-ashton-urmas-paet
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/05/ukraine-bugged-call-catherine-ashton-urmas-paet
Given that the Ukraine is less than 20% ethnically Russin I strongly suspect that the vast majority want Russia to sod off and leave them alone.
If thats your argument then surely Crimea with its less than 20% ethnical Ukrainians should be allowed to sod off and join Russia without all the fuss.
What are you even trying to say? This is gibberish.
Crimea and Sevastopol do not recognize the new Kyev government.
Ukraina's ethnic Russians view themselves under threat from the new government especially after considering that it's made up of right-wing brain amputees whose first point of action was to annull a law that gave legal grounds for regional use of minority languages, including Russian.
Who cares about the truth?
Worst case scenario is looking back 10 years from now and saying: Well, that was a mistake, two wrongs don't make a right, move on.
As long as the propaganda is leading to action, nobody cares if it's true or not. Have you heard about that bullsh*t ultimatum again? Well, it was bullsh*t, but it did what it was meant to do. Trigger panic => justify action.
I mean we had people here talking about Russia invading Poland and Lithuania for crying out loud.
In the same way Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union?
Oh I'm sure you defended the unity of the Soviet Union too at the time.
Putin nominated for Nobel peace prize, due to the Russian intervention on Syria.
I'm not so sure I fancy his chances of coming out on top, here...
I'm not so sure I fancy his chances of coming out on top, here...
Strange, considering the Russian troops haven't killed anybody yet. By the looks of it he should get one too for his "intervention" in Ukraine, by preventing a possible civil war and mass killings in a country that is going through a period of chaos.
When you're widely considered to have disregarded international law you're unlikely to find your actions deemed worthy of accolades, even if there is a case to be made that they were of benefit to the affected region.
If Obama could get it...
He had the advantage of having done nothing, at the time, though. Terribly easy to be peaceful before you have any power/responsibility.
I'm all for letting Russia have Crimea, it was theirs originally anyway, just some USSR leader gave it to them as a platitude. Europe and USA also have to take some of the blame for situation.
Maybe it should but not through military action.
Knowing fck all is pretty much an accurate description when someone claims we started 4 (?!) wars and lost all of them.
Putin isn't even angry. He's probably just feeling sorry for her, and Kerry.
Enlighten me then.
I know beeing seen to uphold laws is important - but godwins law does not count
Looks like we need a spinoff Balkans chat thread.
It was a civil war. The JNA tried to hold the country in one part. They had a brief encounter in Slovenia and moved out after a couple of weeks. The first JNA soldier to get killed in Slovenia was a Slovenian, go figure. Croatia was different as nearly 20% of its population were Serbs who did not want to live in an independent Croatia but in Yugoslavia. The biggest loss for the Serbs was the ethnic cleansing of the several hundred thousands from Krajina. And yes, Milosevic did want all Serbs to live in one country, and that country was called Yugoslavia. Bosnia was complete carnage and the biggest losers were the Muslims. The Serbs got half of Bosnia (Republika Srpska) which is probably one of the greatest achievements for Bosnian Serbs since the 15th century- a self-governing quasi independent state where they represent the majority of the population. Hardly a loss. Kosovo was a loss but only after the US decided they'll just take the shit and give it to you. Kosovo was already lost demographically several decades ago. So in a nutshell, the parties (internal and external) who started the secession process pretty much started the war. Croat, Serb, and Muslim leaders stuck in the 20th century Marxist ideology didn't understand that the communist system has completely collapsed and were unable to make the transition to the super-fantastic liberal-capitalist political and economic system advocated by the EU. Ever since then most of our politicians have been in a fierce competition as to who will be the best in whoring himself out to the West. I think I summed it all up quite nicely now.
That's leave it here because I doubt that people here would be interested to read about it and it is pretty obvious that we live in two completely different universes so I see no point in continuing it.
Referendum in Crimea for choice between Russia and Ukraine is set for March 16th.
The Crimean parliament voted unanimously in favour of becoming part of Russia.
That seems like a positive and sensible move.
What chance of a fair vote and who is going to oversee it?
I don't see a reason why it won't be a fair vote. Most of people there are Russians so they won't need to manipulate the voting in order to win the referendum. I don't think that West will recognize it, but considering that Crimea won't become indipendent but will become part of Russia, then it won't matter.
Interesting will be to see how will Russia behave. If I am not mistaken VVP said that they don't intend to anex any part of Ukraine, so lets see if Russia decline Crimea request to join them. Does Ukraine anyway care for Crimea? From what I have read they'll be better without it.
Good - I'm all for self determination
We did similar with the falklands / malvinas and of course are doing similar with scotland
Ukraine might get like argentina and say they dont recognize the refferendum but if people vote for it i say great problem solved - it becomes part of russia and any ukranians not happy with that can move to the ukraine.
I do wonder if donesk etc might not want their own referendum as well though (and if they do let them have it I say)
We did similar with the falklands / malvinas and of course are doing similar with scotland
Ukraine might get like argentina and say they dont recognize the refferendum but if people vote for it i say great problem solved - it becomes part of russia and any ukranians not happy with that can move to the ukraine.
I do wonder if donesk etc might not want their own referendum as well though (and if they do let them have it I say)
Yeah it might spark a few more, and good luck to them all.
Such a referendum undermines international law. Autonomy is one thing, choosing between countries another.
Would you accept Bilbao joining France? Crete joining Turkey? Wales joining Ireland?
Would you accept Bilbao joining France? Crete joining Turkey? Wales joining Ireland?
Pretty much yes to all of them, Wales especially.
At those who are against a referendum, would you support one if the Falklands overwhelmingly voted to be in the UK?
Would you accept the referendum if Argentina's military was roaming around on the islands before and during the referendum to help remind everyone which way to vote? I'm not saying that the pro-Russian's wouldn't win anyway, but it will certainly distort the results. 58% of the population is ethnic Russian, while 42% is not. It's a safe bet that more than 58% of the votes will be for Russia.
Putin, if he's able to add Crimea, should thank Stalin for killing or deporting the Tatars. If they hadn't been removed, the Russians probably wouldn't be the majority in Crimea.
Plus, everyone is squealing about how X% of the population is ethnic Russians, but is there no % of the ethnic Russians who feel a strong connection to Ukraine, given that they've been living there for 20 odd years?
I'm sure it is for someone who cannot see beyond the 'truth' spoken by Putin.